Mars-Hydro DWC 1 Plant 4x4 Scrog

[Jon]

When I scrog like this, day 21 of flower is defol. day; after all the stretch is completed.

I feel better now but the last couple days I been feeling like shit, and couldn't bring myself to do a good update. I will do another update Saturday after the stretch is done.

Stay safe, and grow well my friends,

Tok..

I am real curious about the stretch and whether or not anything you've done in the entire grow either affects it in any way, or if you did anything on purpose to affect it in any way? Also do you always allow 21 days for the stretch before you defol? If you had a strain the only stretched for 10 days would you then defol upon that 10 day stretch completion? Or am I overthinking this? Also wondering if it's possible to control the number of days of the stretch and if there could possibly be any advantage to doing so.

 

[VetSmoke85]

Great info Tok. I'll be revisiting all the info you've provided after we've moved house. I've started a scrog with autos but it looks like I'll have to chop it all down early unfortunately. I say scrog but really I think it's more of a support trellis than a strict scrog with the way autos grow. Just using the net to spread them out as they do their auto thing. Lol

 

[Tokin Roll]

Today's update day 21 from the switch to 12/12.

Tonight when the lights come on I will show you how I defoliate. Last night I was cleaning up under the canopy; there is no trim during this process. All the leaves that I have been pushing down in the canopy away from the light are being reject by the plant itself. If done properly the plant receives little or no stress from the event. The first image is cleaning up under the canopy, then you will see some images of what will be removed.

This is a light cleanup from last night, tonight I get busy.

What will be trimmed tonight. This is all below the canopy that will drain nutrient from the top buds. This stuff would become popcorn buds if allow to stay.

This will be opened up for better air follow. This is also, why I prefer scrogging Sativa strains over Indica's, it get real tight under the canopy.

These images are from the last three day's.

@ViparSpectra XS-2000

That's all folk's

More to come in a couple days after trimming.

Stay safe, and Grow well my friends,

Tok..

 

[Jon]

Today's update day 21 from the switch to 12/12.

Tonight when the lights come on I will show you how I defoliate. Last night I was cleaning up under the canopy; there is no trim during this process. All the leaves that I have been pushing down in the canopy away from the light are being reject by the plant itself. If done properly the plant receives little or no stress from the event. The first image is cleaning up under the canopy, then you will see some images of what will be removed.

This is a light cleanup from last night, tonight I get busy.

What will be trimmed tonight. This is all below the canopy that will drain nutrient from the top buds. This stuff would become popcorn buds if allow to stay.

This will be opened up for better air follow. This is also, why I prefer scrogging Sativa strains over Indica's, it get real tight under the canopy.

These images are from the last three day's.

@ViparSpectra XS-2000

That's all folk's

More to come in a couple days after trimming.

Stay safe, and Grow well my friends,

Tok..

Damn Tok, you are a master. Those buds, now 21 days post flip, are all still that exact same height together? It seems every bud it sticking up exactly the same height above the screen. WOW. Perfect. So is that uniformity a result of the very targeted and obviously effective tucking/screen work you did during the stretch? Cuz if you didn't do that, wouldn't we see several buds beginning to establish dominance over others and they wouldn't all be the same sweet canopy level like yours?

 

[Jon]

Yo @Tokin Roll, I have a question for you my man. So you've seen what I am trying to do, a scrog without the scrog, and you certainly understand it. So now I am approaching the flip. Let's say I'm successful and when I flip I have three plants that all have very flat canopies and are all tied in those spots. The question is, would you release the bonds for the stretch and just let my established canopy go, or would you continue to train as I have been through the stretch and try for a flat canopy at the point the stretch is done? I strongly suspect you're going to say the latter. Thanks for the help!!!

 

[Tokin Roll]

@Jon

Sorry it took so long I had to catch up on your journal first. I left link for the vertical scrog.

The question is, would you release the bonds for the stretch and just let my established canopy go, or would you continue to train as I have been through the stretch and try for a flat canopy at the point the stretch is done? I strongly suspect you're going to say the latter.

I am not sure exactly, do you mean something like a vertical net?

Vertical ScrOG/ Wall of Green Experiment TRELLIS TRAINER

Starting The OFFICIAL Vertical ScrOG aka WALL OF GREEN My sketched diagram its a damn VERTScrOG... vertical ScrOG AKA WALL OF GREEN!!!!... outdoors or indoors... with lights hanging down on both sides...taking advantage of the fully exposed body... flat on her back like she likes...

www.420magazine.com

After you make the switch the stretch will start. How far apart your post going to be to accommodated stretch? How are you going to control the fan leaves from blocking the light to all the bud sites?

I think I understand what you are saying, but I have not tried that.

The way I use the net during the 21 day stretch is to move the leaves under the net; to let the canopy of bud site get the maximum amount of light on top of the canopy?

The plant has to grow horizontally first, too open up the bud site for vertical growth.

So finally to answer your question. No, the bonds are what gong to control the direction of grow. If you leave them on will it restrict them any?

Tok..

 

[Tokin Roll]

The 21 Day Stretch

Day one

Day 21

That's All Folk's

Tok..

 

[Jon]

The 21 Day Stretch

Day one

Day 21

That's All Folk's

Tok..

This post answers the questions I had for you as well or better than what you sent, which was also great and thank you! What an awesome comparison, I never did that, I get it now. Really makes it crystal clear. I know what I have right now. I have to flip these guys very soon, like in a week. Otherwise I will never be able to control the tent through the stretch. Probably two of .my plants would fill the tent after the stretch as they are right now, certainly if I could use a net. And I have three plants. The height be damned. Mine will be in veg say 67-70 days. No matter how tall they are, that's a mature plant ready to bud. And I have even canopies right now. Once I remove the auto today when we are done setting up the lights for the new grow, they will have the tent to themselves. If I flip these in a week to ten days they're going to yield huge no matter what. I'm gonna err on the side of less yield, higher quality. If I push this, just cuz the damn wheelchair thing, I will be done.

Damn. Wish I could work a damn screen. I'm set up perfectly for one right now and I specifically can't use it. Proved on my last grow. Can't get to the middle of the tent or two sides to work the plants. I must be able to rotate the plants until the stretch is over. They're on wheels. But damn would a screen make this a piece of cake now. POOP.

Oh well. Not the first compromise I've been forced into. Overcoming obstacles is what life is all about.

 

[Tokin Roll]

I am real curious about the stretch and whether or not anything you've done in the entire grow either affects it in any way, or if you did anything on purpose to affect it in any way? Also do you always allow 21 days for the stretch before you defol? If you had a strain the only stretched for 10 days would you then defol upon that 10 day stretch completion? Or am I overthinking this? Also wondering if it's possible to control the number of days of the stretch and if there could possibly be any advantage to doing so.

The 21 day defilation is just to ensure the stretch is over. I try to get every inch of growth I can.

Damn. Wish I could work a damn screen. I'm set up perfectly for one right now and I specifically can't use it. Proved on my last grow. Can't get to the middle of the tent or two sides to work the plants. I must be able to rotate the plants until the stretch is over. They're on wheels. But damn would a screen make this a piece of cake now. POOP.

If you do decide to try a net I think the vertical net may work in your favor. What do you think?

I can get more info. on vertical if you like?

 

[Tokin Roll]

Scrog Indica vs Sativa

First two image are Indica, the second two is Sativa.

Hope this helps.

Tok..

 

[Jon]

Scrog Indica vs Sativa

First two image are Indica, the second two is Sativa.

Hope this helps.

Tok..

Looks like you have no problem filling the screen with an indica! I get the sativas are big yielders and stretchers, but damn, that indica scrog looks just like your current one. It's perfect.

 

[Tokin Roll]

The 21st day trim too set up bud building. If you notice I removed very little leaves mostly popcorn bud under the canopy.

Warning this may not be for the faint of heart; some images may be graphic.

@ViparSpectra XS-2000

Trim not many leaves.

popcorn buds

Top of canopy.

That's all folk's

Tok..

 

[Jon]

The 21st day trim too set up bud building. If you notice I removed very little leaves mostly popcorn bud under the canopy.

Warning this may not be for the faint of heart; some images may be graphic.

@ViparSpectra XS-2000

Trim not many leaves.

popcorn buds

Top of canopy.

That's all folk's

Tok..

Cool. The last picture is the one I was wondering about the most. I get the clear out the undercarriage stuff cuz it robs energy from real buds, that's a no brainer. But I was very curious to see what you were going to do with the fan leaves above the screen. I would have had a hell of a time not picking them before now to expose every single bud to light, as in the before picture there are many leaves covering buds. I see that you did this, exposed the buds to light a lot more. You also kept a lot more leave above the screen than I would have. How come you don't just take every leaf directly below the buds themselves? Do the plants "need" those leaves? Or did you do it to this extent because if you choose to you can tuck leaves from here?

I am always unclear on how many upper leaves to take. I keep it minimal but a lot of times that first node below the bud is where the leaves create the most shadows. Little clarity?

 

[oldmanjj]

Damn Tok, this is a masterclass in SCROG!

Thanks for doing this!

 

[Tokin Roll]

I will get back to you @Jon I need to go get get my yard work done. Funny things is I am tired on maintaining 1/2 acre, but I want sell and get a place with about 25 acres; maybe a 1/4 acre to maintain.

Also, my team is playing at 1:00 o'clock. Back to work.

 

[Jon]

I will get back to you @Jon I need to go get get my yard work done. Funny things is I am tired on maintaining 1/2 acre, but I want sell and get a place with about 25 acres; maybe a 1/4 acre to maintain.

Also, my team is playing at 1:00 o'clock. Back to work.

I hear you and mine is too. I'm scrambling as we speak. But wait til you see what I have to unveil....

 

[Jon]

Well perhaps we don't get along as well as I thought. Lol. I have tons of friends in Pittsburgh, as I lived there from 1989 to 1991. Worked at Hemingway's Cafe right next to the O. Loved the city. That was when the Pens won back to back cups with Lemieux and Jagr. Awesome time to be there. But Steelers fans are a special breed of annoying....they like to say "we're from SIXburgh." And it drives me nuts.

 

[Tokin Roll]

How come you don't just take every leaf directly below the buds themselves? Do the plants "need" those leaves? Or did you do it to this extent because if you choose to you can tuck leaves from here?

I am always unclear on how many upper leaves to take. I keep it minimal but a lot of times that first node below the bud is where the leaves create the most shadows. Little clarity?

Defoliation during flower can be a slippery slope. You can still take fan leaves that are blocking buds, but be careful.
I believe over defoliation not only stress's her and can actually hemi her.

I believe the plant still needs those leaves, just not as much in flower.

At this stage I still tuck those leaves, but tucking is not always an option.

The problem I have telling someone how to defoliate is, if something goes wrong I don't want to be the blame for misunderstood info. I know what I am looking at with my plants, but I also know how I grew the plant.

I am always unclear on how many upper leaves to take. I keep it minimal but a lot of times that first node below the bud is where the leaves create the most shadows. Little clarity?

You can still take blocking leaves away, just don't do to much or often.

Hope this helps.

Tok..

 

[Jon]

Defoliation during flower can be a slippery slope. You can still take fan leaves that are blocking buds, but be careful.
I believe over defoliation not only stress's her and can actually hemi her.

I believe the plant still needs those leaves, just not as much in flower.

At this stage I still tuck those leaves, but tucking is not always an option.

The problem I have telling someone how to defoliate is, if something goes wrong I don't want to be the blame for misunderstood info. I know what I am looking at with my plants, but I also know how I grew the plant.

I am always unclear on how many upper leaves to take. I keep it minimal but a lot of times that first node below the bud is where the leaves create the most shadows. Little clarity?

You can still take blocking leaves away, just don't do to much or often.

Hope this helps.

Tok..

It helps a ton and thanks very much. Much of what you said is what I thought. I agree that stressing the plant too much in this manner could potentially hermie a plant. Careful sounds like the word of the day. And minimal. Yes? And thanks again. I may revisit this with you when the time comes.

 

[Tokin Roll]

Not a problem @Jon

Tok..