LST Star Shape Without Manifold Or Topping

[djdmaze]

Just in case, anyone was looking for way to train their plants to star shape without topping, it seems it can be done. I have my gorilla zkittlez turning into a wonderful star shape almost similar to some topping and manifold techniques I have seen. All I did was tie her down into one direction at an early age. Which in turn, exposed all her lower growth to sunlight so she started bushing and busting out grow tips everywhere. Nice thing with LST and DWC, you can rotate your netpot without damaging roots to give you more freedom in which way you want the plant to grow or if you were concerned you twisted a branch in a inconvenient way (Ex: branch not gettting enough light after LST). Can't do that in soil or coco because root system is bound to container, so you're stuck with the way you got them other than rotating entire pot. The added DWC res, gives the plant base in net pot extra angles to tie down to, it's awesome. I remember in coco smart pots, sometimes I had trouble not being able to tie down plants as low as desired due to smart pot rim being to close to plant; would have to tie to something else or farther away, like the base of a res! IMO I was always concerned about LST tying in DWC setup but just make the twisty tie longer and tie to resovoir. For some angles you may need something heavy but non-invasive to plants' space to hold it down. For stems/branches growing toward the center of my res, I just wrap ties around the rim of my third net pot which is empty with just hydroton. Just tie it around the circle/rim of the netpot and hook the other end of the tie onto the base of the tie after looping it around net pot once to create a pulley system. It's relatively easy, just use twisty ties to tie all new growth branches/stems away from the plant. I wait awhile after the newer stems seem sturdy enough to tie down. Don't wait too late though. Before and After posted---

EDIT: I wanted to post this in the how to grow thread but didn't see much LST topics so I posted here instead. Hope this helps...and works for anyone wondering about LST without topping.

 

[bobrown14]

Wire for the win. Topping reduces yields.

 

[Kodiak420]

Just in case, anyone was looking for way to train their plants to star shape without topping, it seems it can be done.

Oh man good to hear, that was my intention this grow was to do some sort of LST with out topping.

Wire for the win. Topping reduces yields.

Have you done this before?
Doesn't seem to be to many people talking about it, or maybe there's a "certain name" for it that I don't know?

 

[bobrown14]

"Super cropping" is the cannabis culture name for it.

Espalier is a horticultural name for a similar type training you are thinking about. There are other techniques

 

[djdmaze]

Just an update on how the LST is turning out. The first post had the pic taken on the same day 420/Apr 20th! Shoutout to 420magazine! These before and after pics are from earlier this week (4/25 and 4/26) but almost exactly a week after the first pic. She’s crazy bushy again. Going to train her again today. She’s almost ready for me to flower. Planning to flip around 5/13 ish. Let me know if you guys want to see another before & after picture update.

 

[djdmaze]

Oh man good to hear, that was my intention this grow was to do some sort of LST with out topping.



Have you done this before?
Doesn't seem to be to many people talking about it, or maybe there's a "certain name" for it that I don't know?

I think he may have been referring to topping as being more stressful which increases recovery time (strain-dependent) some strains will recover faster imo. It still helps the plant yield more whereas he probably meant to say it may not necessarily be harmful to the plant but will result in slightly increasing the veg time.

 

[bobrown14]

I meant topping reduces yields.

Here's why. The "top" aka Apical Meristem is where all the growth hormones and other hormones and plant growth cells are made and distributed. Once you cut that "top" off the plant has to stop growing and grow another new Apical Meristem.

The process of stopping and growing a new apical meristem takes anywhere from 5-12 days for a cannabis plant. Thats quite a bit of lost growing time that the plant would otherwise be devoting its energy into growing.

There are more productive ways to train plants besides "topping" specially if the goal is yields.

Here's an example of a plant I just harvested that I super cropped or bent over the main stem (apical meristem). She never skipped a beat growing. I actually have to tie that bent over leader back to itself with wire or she will straighten that out overnight.

Its just a simple crack of the leader at 90 degrees - tie it with a wire - this supports the branch while it heals (overnight). The rest of the plant continues to grow. When you "top" a plant the plant will stop growing until she grows a replacement.

 

[djdmaze]

I meant topping reduces yields.

Here's why. The "top" aka Apical Meristem is where all the growth hormones and other hormones and plant growth cells are made and distributed. Once you cut that "top" off the plant has to stop growing and grow another new Apical Meristem.

The process of stopping and growing a new apical meristem takes anywhere from 5-12 days for a cannabis plant. Thats quite a bit of lost growing time that the plant would otherwise be devoting its energy into growing.

There are more productive ways to train plants besides "topping" specially if the goal is yields.

Here's an example of a plant I just harvested that I super cropped or bent over the main stem (apical meristem). She never skipped a beat growing. I actually have to tie that bent over leader back to itself with wire or she will straighten that out overnight.

Its just a simple crack of the leader at 90 degrees - tie it with a wire - this supports the branch while it heals (overnight). The rest of the plant continues to grow. When you "top" a plant the plant will stop growing until she grows a replacement.

Ahh I see what you are saying. I was essentially saying the same thing just in a different way. So yeah the recovery time is key factor in topping. So technically it would yield less than a LST plant considering they had the same vegetative grow time frame. It’s good to see your supercropping turning out well. I would think topping was less stressful, but it seems not?

 

[bobrown14]

Topping wood be a last resort for me or a test but it wood be in early VEG. If I need to slow down growth I can leave the plant in a small container. Topping is for sure stressful.

 

[Kodiak420]

I think he may have been referring to topping as being more stressful which increases recovery time (strain-dependent) some strains will recover faster imo. It still helps the plant yield more whereas he probably meant to say it may not necessarily be harmful to the plant but will result in slightly increasing the veg time.

I meant topping reduces yields.

Here's why. The "top" aka Apical Meristem is where all the growth hormones and other hormones and plant growth cells are made and distributed. Once you cut that "top" off the plant has to stop growing and grow another new Apical Meristem.

The process of stopping and growing a new apical meristem takes anywhere from 5-12 days for a cannabis plant. Thats quite a bit of lost growing time that the plant would otherwise be devoting its energy into growing.

There are more productive ways to train plants besides "topping" specially if the goal is yields.

Here's an example of a plant I just harvested that I super cropped or bent over the main stem (apical meristem). She never skipped a beat growing. I actually have to tie that bent over leader back to itself with wire or she will straighten that out overnight.

Its just a simple crack of the leader at 90 degrees - tie it with a wire - this supports the branch while it heals (overnight). The rest of the plant continues to grow. When you "top" a plant the plant will stop growing until she grows a replacement.

Ahh I see what you are saying. I was essentially saying the same thing just in a different way. So yeah the recovery time is key factor in topping. So technically it would yield less than a LST plant considering they had the same vegetative grow time frame. It’s good to see your supercropping turning out well. I would think topping was less stressful, but it seems not?

Topping wood be a last resort for me or a test but it wood be in early VEG. If I need to slow down growth I can leave the plant in a small container. Topping is for sure stressful.

Thanks guys, great info.


I understand the science mostly behind super cropping, just I grow outside I can see there being more to worry about in the sense of natural elements (weather, pest). Stressed out plants might attract some unwanted pest, I'd hate to do that. Crappy weather means you'd really need to make sure you support extra well.
Low stress training, just tying down the plant and tie the branches out accordingly. No cutting or bruising of branches etc. You would achieve the same thing that topping does?
But I guess I need to try for myself.

Thank you.

 

[djdmaze]

Thanks guys, great info.


I understand the science mostly behind super cropping, just I grow outside I can see there being more to worry about in the sense of natural elements (weather, pest). Stressed out plants might attract some unwanted pest, I'd hate to do that. Crappy weather means you'd really need to make sure you support extra well.
Low stress training, just tying down the plant and tie the branches out accordingly. No cutting or bruising of branches etc. You would achieve the same thing that topping does?
But I guess I need to try for myself.

Thank you.

Yeah it does, although, some people top, defoliate bottom growth, and lst altogether to mainline or manifold. But LST does essentially make the plant bushier as does topping but with the lost recovery time. Here is a updated pic after LST’ng her today. Sorry didn’t grab the before pic lol There are like 5 branches under the top growth that are as thick as 1 adult plant’s stem. It’s crazy