Lighting advice and input for autos

M

Mtn0nfire7

Well-Known Member
Like the title says I'm looking for lighting advice For 2 5x5 tents that will be the new homes for autos and a few regular beans, ranging from Dr grinspoon, arjans ultra haze, and original sensi seeds jack herer to autos like dark devil auto, I will also be having new genetics like bubble head 13 and gorillagasm and southern lights( notice I'm a bit of a genetic freak and love my purebreds and landraces and special genetics)
I also will be starting a journal presuming I have the time
This is something like my 7th official full size grow, but Ive always had at least one Lil bush sitting around. I've been a green thumb since I was a a Lil tyke and plan on going to school for agronomy and biology...

I suppose this is my hello to the community as well as my proposal to start communication

Ok so about the lights...

Photon tek x 600w pro

Phantom photo bio mx 680w

Timber

Medic grow spectrum x 880

Electric sky 300 v3
 
I can think of a bunch of members that I have followed since oh....idk 2011.

Talk about one of the ultimate lurkers on this forum!
I would love to tag and ask for help from most of them but can I remember how to input their username? Just sweetsue, guess I've read your journals the most haha
 
Hi! Welcome back and thanks for the tag! My advice is to stick with our current sponsors. These companies are in it for the long term and most are willing to back our group with discounts. I can say that I own a NextLight and a MarsHydro light, and I love both of them.
 
Any and all advice and Input is welcome!
Like I said been a green thumb for a long time!

I come from well quite the family and I am also working on a glassblowin apprenticeship. Here are some pics of recent plants and recent glass

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Hey....

I've been "away" from the LED grow light market for a few years as an enthusiast and tester, so in terms of the brands/lights you mentioned I am not familiar with them. Regardless of that, here is my advice.

Since LED's are all about efficiency of Light/watt, there is a metric called "umol/joule" and most LED companies should have this information about their products... commonly now, you should be looking at this metric as one of the more important metrics as it is telling you how much light/unit of energy you are getting or your photosyntetic efficiency. The higher the number the more efficient the light is... So I would go to each manufacture and find out what their Umol/Joule is... most current LED grow lights I believe range from about 2.5umol/joule to 3+ now. You want the higher number..

Secondly you should ask each company what LED chips/diodes they are using..... What the expected lifetime of the chips/diodes? and/or what is the LM80 of the chips.... LM80 is a metric used to describe how long it takes for a LED chip to lose 20% of its output (called lumen maintenance). This usually for most good LED chips is at least 40,000hours to 100k hours but its a good metric which will tell you if the long term value is in each light.. Obviously as growers who are looking for the ultimate efficiency, we want a LED which will last since the initial cost is not cheap. The higher the LM80, the longer the light will be expected to hold its lumen output and the longer it takes for the led chips to degrade. If they manufacture can't supply you this info, then its not generally a good sign as they don't know their product well, or the could be just a brand who didn't even manufacture the light themselves, which is common. Heat is the main "killer" of LED chips so take a look at each LED grow light and make sure there is good thermal cooling fins on the backside of each LED. The hotter the LED chips run, the faster they will degrade and lose output. Also find out what kind of "driver" the LED is using and find out the drivers efficiency. Meanwell drivers are kind of the "go to" for most LED lights as they are efficient, and have a good reputation. I would stay away from "proprietary" drivers or unlabled ones, as the driver is generally the "fail point" of most LED grow lights, so you don't want to cheap out when it comes to the driver.

3rd I would ask for a "PAR map" for each light you are considering. Generally this will be done on a 4x4, 5x5 or even 10x10 area, and it shows how a light at a certain height, will project onto the growing canopy. Many LED lights are designed poorly where they have extreme intensity in the middle, and low intensity on the sides. The best LED lights are designed to spread the light evenly across the canopy where the difference from the sides/corners to the middle are fairly even. These PAR maps will represent the PAR that you are getting for each location of the canopy. Its generally recommended for veg you want to be somewhere in the 200-800 PAR range and for flowering its generally accepted you want to have a PAR (across the entire canopy) of around 800-1000umols if you are not using CO2, and if you are using CO2 you can even go as high as 1500umol. The higher the Umol, the more light the plant at that canopy point is receiving, which is better. Each company should be able to supply you this information.

Other that the above mentioned, once you gather that data from each manufacture it will give you a good idea of which companies/brands know their products and which ones are clueless. Many LED "companies" in this industry don't manufacture their own lights, and many are just a brand, so its also important to find out if the company/brand makes their own lights, or they just outsource to china and buy up bulk manufactured lights and slap a logo on it. This is important because it will tell you a lot about the products quality, the warranties that back their products, the abilities to get replacement parts if the light were to fail. Find out how long the company has been in business too, as MOST LED companies I have encountered last only a handful of years and most drop out like flies..... so find a company that has a proven track record and has been in the industry for a while. I can't really mention non-sponsored companies here, so you will have to do your research on this, but there are a few brands and horticulture lighting groups that provide top notch components and have great reputations.. but you will have to look around. Obviously a warranty is only good as the company is in business, so really this is key in your decision to know the company. The best companies will provide you with EVERYTHING I have suggested as they are common in today's LED market. Also with the PAR maps and the umol/joule, ask where they had their light tested and if it was done professionally by a 3rd party lab, or inhouse.... a lot of LED companies in the past have lied/cheated their reported numbers by inflating them to attract users, but have no real world testing to confirm them... so ask for the actual lab report too.

Lastly the spectrum/wavelengths of light.... this is probably the least important out of the things I have mentioned, but still important. For most LED lights now, full spectrum or white led chips is the best route to go and for flowering generally the lower the color temp (closer to red) the better the lights will perform for flowering with the exception of loss of lumenous output which happens as you move closer to red. I would find a LED that is around the 3000-3500k range for probably your best results for flowering, veg really doesn't matter since its not the part of the grow that most of us are really concerned with. Many LED lights will add 660nm Red which is good too, and some will also ad Far Red 730nm.... Really neither are necessary as the white Led chips have both in them, so this is more personal preference than anything. This would honestly be my least concern over the other things mentioned above as most full spectrum lights will be fine, with/without added red or other wavelengths.

Well I hope this helps. Again I can't really suggest a specific light or brand as I would have to gather all the data above myself since I"ve been out of the "perfect LED hunt" for a while now... lol. If you follow this advice, you will most likely make a wise decision and find a great product. I can't recommend a specific brand or light, but finding the answers above will definitely lead you there :) happy growing!


For more in depth information regarding Plant lighting/Par and how plants use light, you can check out my write up I did a few years ago which goes through the basics of how plants use light, which will help you understand PAR and some of the terminology I referenced above. Here is the link to my post/writeup: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spectrum
 
I feel kinda like a giggling schoolgirl.
Icemud responded to my post on the forum!!

I have to say that you're one of my idols on here and that I highly value your input. I have followed all of your stuff, amongst others (almost biblically) over the years, and I'd have to say you're definitely one of the people that inspired me to utilize that passion for plants and go through with schooling.
I am definitely a bit of a chemistry, biology, and physics geek.

I've done multiple grows over the years since oh ya know...mid-teens, only two of them were ever very serious and most of them were by far and large for education or entertainment purposes. Ranging from different hydroponic setups and nutrients, happy frog, hempy, super soil, hi-brix and organics of all different stylings. Did indoors and out with all different kinds of lights including a couple LED and different environments.

I know this I am definitely a bit of a pot snob and a super picky persnickety person. I know that right now I cannot go full out multiple rooms but that I would like to when I have the chance.
That being said I will probably do a couple 5x5 tents. I will be doing hi-brix and organic of my own styling.
I will have full environmental control of the tents and the room they are in I will be utilizing every trick and addition I know from co2 to ethylene gas to mimicking real life conditions and everything I can think of to boost anthocyanin production. I'm definitely after medicinal connoisseur quality full of terpenes and will be using prize genetics.

I suppose I'm after a bit more up-to-date information on a range of LED lights that I can use later on in a room size setup.
I'm after more than full spectrum I want a legitimate wide spectrum. Most of the LED lights I put up cover all spectrums all the way and most of them have a high efficacy and a high micromole rating.

I'm just having such a difficult time deciding, such a hard time that I posted for the first time in 10 years lol
 
Mtn0nfire7 said:
I feel kinda like a giggling schoolgirl.
Icemud responded to my post on the forum!!

I have to say that you're one of my idols on here and that I highly value your input. I have followed all of your stuff, amongst others (almost biblically) over the years, and I'd have to say you're definitely one of the people that inspired me to utilize that passion for plants and go through with schooling.
I am definitely a bit of a chemistry, biology, and physics geek.

I've done multiple grows over the years since oh ya know...mid-teens, only two of them were ever very serious and most of them were by far and large for education or entertainment purposes. Ranging from different hydroponic setups and nutrients, happy frog, hempy, super soil, hi-brix and organics of all different stylings. Did indoors and out with all different kinds of lights including a couple LED and different environments.

I know this I am definitely a bit of a pot snob and a super picky persnickety person. I know that right now I cannot go full out multiple rooms but that I would like to when I have the chance.
That being said I will probably do a couple 5x5 tents. I will be doing hi-brix and organic of my own styling.
I will have full environmental control of the tents and the room they are in I will be utilizing every trick and addition I know from co2 to ethylene gas to mimicking real life conditions and everything I can think of to boost anthocyanin production. I'm definitely after medicinal connoisseur quality full of terpenes and will be using prize genetics.

I suppose I'm after a bit more up-to-date information on a range of LED lights that I can use later on in a room size setup.
I'm after more than full spectrum I want a legitimate wide spectrum. Most of the LED lights I put up cover all spectrums all the way and most of them have a high efficacy and a high micromole rating.

I'm just having such a difficult time deciding, such a hard time that I posted for the first time in 10 years lol
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind words :) I't really makes my day when I know that my efforts and journals and such have been influential to others :) I very much appreciate you sharing that with me :)

I wish I had more "up to date" type information on LED lighting for ya...its been about 4-5 years since I really indulged in the market so things have changed quite a bit.

I did notice that 2 of the lights mentioned (and sponsors) have "lighting controllers" that are illuminated. This would be a concern of mine and I would definitely want to know if these LCD controllers can be permanently turned off, as the last thing you would want to have is light leaking during the night period. This could cause flowering issues and even hermi so I would definitely ask each company can these displays be turned off, or covered.

Other than that, most LED lights in today's market are really similar, so performance between them won't really be much different. More importantly I would focus on the company behind the products, and see whether they will be there in 5 years if the light were to have an issue and a warranty claim was needed. warranties are worthless if the company isn't there....

Well sorry I couldn't point you in more of a direction, but hopefully this helps you make the right choice for your garden. I definitely would request a PAR map from each lighting company because at the end of the day, how evenly the light spreads in your 5x5 tent is going to determine how well the light will work for your environment.

I also noticed a few of the lights have "removable" drivers which is kind of a nice feature as if you have issues where the grow tent gets too hot, you can remove the driver outside of the tent to reduce the heat load... this is quite a nice feature. Also waterproof connectors and rating is a nice feature as sometimes when spraying plants the mist does float up to the lights, so any waterproof connectors would be of benefit to keep the light from corroding or from any potential shock risks.

You sound like you like to "nerd out" on everything plants like me :) Its so much fun to learn everything involved with plants and providing the perfect environment and dialing it in perfectly :) I share that passion for sure :) You mentioned anthocyanin production. This primarily will be enhanced by the UV-Blue end of the spectrum and by lighting intensity. By adding a UV-B source such as a reptile bulb will help increase the anthocyanin levels in the plants but remember to wear eye protection as the blue-UV end of the spectrum has a lot of energy in each photon, and can be harmful to eyes... (and skin). Anthocyanin is very similar to a plants "sunscreen" and generally harsh blue and UV light will cause the plant to produce more because of the energy in that end of the spectrum... as well as increase trichome density as this too is response to intense or high energy light. I wouldn't really focus on a LED grow light that included UV as most of them don't use the right UV chips (UV-B) and UV LED chips aren't really to the point where they have a lot of efficiency or longevity. For UV-B, reptile bulbs or similar are far better for the high energy UV spectrums.

Again Hope this info helps ya out! Happy Growing and Light Hunting :)
 
@Icemud
Wow; very well said, you don't give yourself enough credit. Few people could have articulated the subject so well.

Thank you.

Tok..
 

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