Lets talk - Keeping PH stable

[jimm14]

Hey guys, In the years I've grown hydroponics I've found a few things that help keep you PH stable over your grow. A thing newbies struggle with a lot and then end up having plant woes , Anyway here we go.

1. Bigger res/tank. Yes the more water you have the more it helps to buffer your PH.

2. Let your water settle after you add your nutes, Most nute mixes have great buffing ability if allowed to settle in before adjustment.

3. If your PH is wandering a lot then try adding more nutes! I would prefer to add 300ppm of nutes then 200ppm of PH down, at least the plant can use it!

4.Keep the water moving with a pump, I use a simple, small fish tank pump just to keep my water on the move. Some people use air-stones but i find a pump works better for keeping PH stable.

5. Try to keep you res temps stable, a cooler tank will help keep PH stable at the sacrifice of faster root growth.

I would love to know anything other people do that helps, PH is a hard part of hydroponic growing and something I still adjust every 2-3 days.

My PH will rise from 5.5 to 6.8 (90liter tank) over 3 days sometimes a little more, It's taken me years to learn how to keep it this stable but I'm sure guys round here can do better. When I was a new at hydro swings from 5.5 upto 8.3 in one day was not uncommon along with lots of PH down being used lol!

Anyway guys, Tips, Tricks, Your little PH secrets, tell all!

 

[Mr White]

My lack of experience with Hydro doesn't allow me to tell anything, but I appreciate the tips and will be putting them to use. Thanks for the post.

 

[PrairiePoet]

One thing a lot of new hydro growers end up doing is to keep trying to adjust the reservoir too much. If you adjust down too far, then adjust too high, it is much better to toss the water and start over.

I've also always adjusted my water first, then added nutes. Mainly because I've used tap water and the pH of it could be as low as 6.0 and as high as 8.5.

And number 2 is right on.

 

[SpaceGhost]

I have been working on this very issue. Most cases of erratic PH swings that I have seen have been do to heat issues that later on cause rot rot and then the PH really starts to swing. PH swings check for sick plants and res temps.

I have been doing experiments with my city water to get a handle on the ph swings.
1: I've found bubbling my water helps.
the longer it sets the better. I like it to bubble for 24hrs and set up to a week before use.
2: I've been using 2.5 gal jugs and now also use a 5gal bucket that I ph before hand until it is ph stable and the mix nuts and use in the res. So I bubble out the 2.5 gal jugs 1st, then after 24hrs I fill a 5gal bucket with the 2.5's and continue bubbling while and justing the ph to 5.6. This usually takes 2 times and then it has been stable after that for days until needing used.
3: I've also been using battery acid from the local auto zone for 5$ it is safe and I have been doing this on my grow since Easter weekend. You can read more about my Battery acid experiments in my journal
4: Ice. I've been adding frozen 1gal jugs off ice to my flowering reservoir 3 times daily. and maybe once a day to my veg res

these 4 ideers have helped stable my city waters ph and will help your ph issues too

 

[jimm14]

When you say battery acid do you mean sulfuric acid? or de-ionised/distilled water? big differences.

and obviously if you are using sulfuric be very careful it will take your skin off and blind you, it can also explode when warm and gets a spark (only seen batteries do it). I used to be a mechanic and Ive had some very nasty burns to my hands being dumb filling new batteries without gloves. Other then that sounds good,would give a sulfur boost as well, do you just use it like ph down?

 

[SpaceGhost]

When you say battery acid do you mean sulfuric acid? or de-ionised/distilled water? big differences.

and obviously if you are using sulfuric be very careful it will take your skin off and blind you, it can also explode when warm and gets a spark (only seen batteries do it). I used to be a mechanic and Ive had some very nasty burns to my hands being dumb filling new batteries without gloves. Other then that sounds good,would give a sulfur boost as well, do you just use it like ph down?

sulfuric acid: Yes Sir I am.

I Dropped my eye dropper down in the bottle of my acid and I had to stick my finger in there to get it out. I'll be alright did't loose a finger or a eye. I must be tougher than nails. I did mess with my girlfriend and pulled my finger out screaming like the dude from robo cop just before he splatted on the windshield.
one of the reasons battery's explode because the charging system the alternator regulator quits and over charges the battery and over heating it in the process, creating more toxic/unstable sulfuric gases. Then some dumb ass comes along looking why his car is not starting well checking the battery fluids with a lighter and CaBooom.

I'll be alright bro thx for the warnings

 

[Mixman812]

Awsome advice. I needed this help. thank You.

 

[jimm14]

sulfuric acid: Yes Sir I am.

I Dropped my eye dropper down in the bottle of my acid and I had to stick my finger in there to get it out. I'll be alright did't loose a finger or a eye. I must be tougher than nails. I did mess with my girlfriend and pulled my finger out screaming like the dude from robo cop just before he splatted on the windshield.
one of the reasons battery's explode because the charging system the alternator regulator quits and over charges the battery and over heating it in the process, creating more toxic/unstable sulfuric gases. Then some dumb ass comes along looking why his car is not starting well checking the battery fluids with a lighter and CaBooom.

I'll be alright bro thx for the warnings

Just dont get it on you hand and think ''oh I'll wash it off later'' , It won't melt your hand off movie style but prolonged exposure will result in a serious chemical burn.

and yer when I was a greese monkey most batteries went pop after charging them, they make alot of gas when charging and if you dont put the caps back on and make a spark then bang.

 

[FrankFoster]

Water is cheap. Just get the base line ppm of your local water ph, and profile......

Then design the ppm character for your grow. I like 660 ppm on a NPk of 3-2-2 or 2—4-2.

Then figure the exact measurement of Chems for a gallon jug for your area tap water.

Mines 3 red drops and two blu drops per gallon.
Or in flower
2 red drps and 2 blue and one pclear.

So just blindly pour a gallon jug out do whatever measured drips and go for it.
I even went for fertt that balanced the ph of over carbonated water wher ethe ph goes to 8.

Got a profile of 6.3 for 13 days a 87 degrees f.

 

[Xlr8]

Good topic for discussion! Here are a few off the cuff thoughts I have on ph management:

Light leaks will cause erratic PH. If you keep light out of your reservoirs and netpots etc, your PH will stay more stable. This one really can make a surprising difference, so if you aren't fully light-tight and battling frequent PH upswings, try better light-proofing!

Also, yes, a larger reservoir helps a lot. Small, solo bubble buckets work great for example, but ph management can be a pain due to the inherently small reservoir.

I've found that I like to set my ph at around 5.5 in hydro and let it drift through a range up to about 6.1 or 6.2 before adjusting. Since the plants can take in certain nutrients better at varying ph levels, this drift process works nicely.

Some growers micro-manage to "5.8" for example, and while that is probably the best "one size fits all" number on many strains, drifting through a range is more effective in my experience, and less likely to result in deficiencies. For example, magnesium deficiency can be an issue if you peg it low and don't allow "upcreep".

 

[SpaceGhost]

Good topic for discussion! Here are a few off the cuff thoughts I have on ph management:

Light leaks will cause erratic PH. If you keep light out of your reservoirs and netpots etc, your PH will stay more stable. This one really can make a surprising difference, so if you aren't fully light-tight and battling frequent PH upswings, try better light-proofing!

Also, yes, a larger reservoir helps a lot. Small, solo bubble buckets work great for example, but ph management can be a pain due to the inherently small reservoir.

I've found that I like to set my ph at around 5.5 in hydro and let it drift through a range up to about 6.1 or 6.2 before adjusting. Since the plants can take in certain nutrients better at varying ph levels, this drift process works nicely.

Some growers micro-manage to "5.8" for example, and while that is probably the best "one size fits all" number on many strains, drifting through a range is more effective in my experience, and less likely to result in deficiencies. For example, magnesium deficiency can be an issue if you peg it low and don't allow "upcreep".

You nailed it on the head brother. Let that ph drift. 6.2 ph down ....5.5 ph up.... ride the coaster ....the hydro coaster

 

[FrankFoster]

I saw a guy with 100% natural hydro setup using a tank of fresh squeezed lemon juice extracted from his kitchen in his hydro and the swing on the ph was on the half hour 5.5 to 7.0. You have to have that electric auto water injector ph adjuster line to roll but he literally had his ph controlled with orchard lemons.

He said that it took about three weeks to sour the water in the system but almost all his grows we're citrus strains and for example lemon haze was freaking lemons.

 

[SteamMachine]

I believe the problem allot of us have is humidity. Vpd really. I'm not opening my vpd charts so these numbers are just examples, close examples i assume but it's the point, you'll get it. First usual problem for most is the environment gets too dry for the temp it's running at and the plant will simply over transpire. Thus drinking more water than nutrients. Now what's that do to the resivour guys and gals? Makes the ppm/ec go up doesn't it. And the other way to rise ppms unwantedly is just too big of ppm jumps per week all together. And with the more concentration of nutrients if it does this more than an allotted amount of ppm rise in x amount of time you'll set the plant to burn the roots and leaves. Here's how to stop this even in dirt pots that you can't really register levels but are probably having the exact same issues. Learning with hydro was easier to learn these rules but took 20+ years still. Keep humidity high and the ph won't drop from that reason. Next is, Ph RISE is usually controllable by not letting the plant get hungry. When the new week of nutrients starts you should leave off from the last week of nutrients with them eating ppms at the exact level you intended. For instance here's how I do it, if right it controlles itself both ways. When the plants come out of clone I give them 650ppm veg for week one. It's the right amount of hot on them coming from a 450 to 500ppm cloner so they drink more water then food for 2.5 days thus it will rise to 700 at day 2.5, then they'll b used to it and they'll eat it down to 650 by day 7. The ph did swing as expected from 6 that I start it at to 5.7 then up to say 5.9 or 6 again then I do it the next week raising the ppm 125ish a week in veg and 150ish a week in flwr, watching it do the same rise then fall, over and over till harvest. Start it correct from the get go or you wouldn't wanna waste your time expecting things to ever b right or fixable. To big a clone starting too late changes things and you wouldn't get as big of a harvest if its even one week too long in the cloner cause it'd get hungry at the clone ppm rate and drop under your usual start in veg ppm, and sure thing such would burn it week one and throw the darn idea of, ITS FORWARD MOTION ONLY FOR HYDRO SUCCESS. THERE'S NO STALL ALLOWED FOR THE SHORT TIME IT TAKES TO GROW THIS STUFF, OR YOU'LL LOSE MORE THAN YOU'LL GAIN AND TASTES WILL JUST SUCK. And vpd allows these rules to work. Correct humidity with the correct temp with the light being raised or lowered to get the leaves in the main growing are to b 1.0 to 1.5 degrease lower than the room temp. So yes you have to have cooler root area than room temp so the plant has cooler roots too use to cool the plant down to 1.5 degrees less than the room temp. That's why cool roots, and of course less rot at cooler temps with wet stuff like grow medias too, ie root rot sucks too. YEAH WHAT YOU JUST READ TOOK ME 20+ YEARS TO SEE HOW SIMPLE I WAS DOING IT WRONG. In there lies the way to great flavors. Then change up your nutrients with differently derived ones and see different flavors with the same strains. With these simple rules I hope you'll achieve all the great things you've always wanted to. 2 more things to top of the greatest post of all time... 1 if you have powdery mildew just wipe everything out throw it in the trash and start with seeds and find good phenos to keep. It if you have a buddy who understands vpd then he doesn't have powdery mildew I bet so get food strains from him but throw away powdery mildew strains you can not fix em and they'll wreck you. Powdery mildew is from people with too low of humidity. Yeah I said that right darnit. Too low humidity equals plants to drink more water and too sweat when leaves touch leaves plus they end up burnt from drinking more water this leaving the pot they're in higher and higher in nutrients, burns em and kills roots then plants are weak and with the leaves touching each other thus sweating where they touch, boom powdery mildew! In a high humidity environment say 63 to 65 they won't sweat and where leaves touch you won't see water. And they'll have healthy transpire rates so the ph won't swing and they'll b healthy! Healthy! Rule 2 is you can't make a shit strain taste good or b good. 100 seeds and say 3 to 5 are keepers 30 are ok and the rest suck! It takes work to get awsome strains. Don't grow a pheno of a strain more than twice if it don't impress you cause it ain't your practices, that pheno of that strain just sucks.