Lee's 400W Closet

[totemic]

Hey so this is my 2nd grow, first journal.. but it's been like 5 years so it might as well be my first grow. I at least know the basics of seed-to-harvest... My first grow was lower tech and messy. I hope to improve my results this time around. This is not a commercial grow, personal use only. Quality over quantity. (Although a high yield wouldn't hurt



Setup:

400w air-cooled HID in 4x2x5 tent, Lumatek ballast, Hortilux bulbs, 6" fan/filter exhaust, 424 CFM dimmed with variable voltage controller:

I'm highlighting this because I was using a standard "fan speed" controller that came with the fan.. But lower speeds caused an unpleasant high-pitched hum. I also heard they can shorten the life of the fan by changing sine waves or something.. So I grabbed the Variac and it eliminates the hum at any speed. The fan purrs like a kitten, and has a much wider range of adjustment. It's got my vote.

I've got two circulating fans inside, one is blowing between light & canopy. Exhaust at 40% power.
At first I was having severe climate issues. Average day temps were 90's, humidity 21-30. I tried all sorts of fan speeds & water tricks to no avail. My salvation came in the form of a small cool-mist humidifier. It blows a fine vapor which is then circulated by the nearby fan, blowing cool air right over the canopy. It gets filled with refrigerated filtered water. (Tap water can leave behind sediment.)
Day temps are now 71-80, humidity stays 48-50. (It has a humidistat, which lets me set the humidity level.. And it works!!) $30 well spent at the hardware store.

3 Plants(for now): AK48 (reg), Northern Lights (fem auto), & an unknown sativa
FoxFarm nute trio, Ocean Forest soil & Happy Frog for seedlings
Tap water pH is 7
All seedlings start for a week under a T5:HO veg light in another room.. So they can grow a bit before going in the tent. The sprouts love the T5... I also grow some vegetables & herbs quite succesafully with it.

The grow is 5 weeks in progress, but I'll catch us up real quick.

Lets start with Sue, the first plant. She's been vegging for about 35 days, showed female preflowers around week 4. (Was really glad to not have a boy named Sue) It's a seed from a frosty sticky bag of what appeared to be Sativa dominant. This plant was intended to be a tester before my other seeds arrived. Giving me a chance to experiment with LST.. Test my grow conditions.. Etc. (also, having a larger plant in with younglings can help humidity. Which is a constant battle here in the winter)

Here's some of Sues progress in 5 weeks:

Week 2

Week 3 (transplant to 3 gal pot, first round of LST)

Went from 7 inches tall to about 3

Week 4, responding very well to LST, canopy staying low & even.

Under the hood

Week 5(present day)
Had to tie down a few spots, growth seems decently fast. Overall healthy.

*Some problem leaves:

For a couple weeks Ive noticed those leaf problems get worse, I think I may have been overfeeding because the dosage on the bottles of FF nutes are way off compared to the online schedule, for some reason. She was getting burnt up. pH of runoff came in between 6.5 & 7. Ive decreased the dosage so hopefully this doesn't continue.

AK-48 (9 days old):

NL (9 days old):

It's fascinating to see the growth differences between the AK & NL. Same age, but so different. I'm taking the NL's short nature with the big leaves to be a primry Indica trait, if I'm not mistaken. It was also directly planted in a 3 gal pot from seed, didn't want to have to transplant it.

Let's zoom out a bit:

(The other two plants are tomatoes )
The light stays 8-10" above the canopy. I have decent height to work with if I need it, but Im trying to keep things short and spread out.

I guess we're all caught up! Thanks for stopping by.. Glad I finally got this journal started. If I left any important details out, please say so! I welcome any and all questions, comments, & criticisms!

 

[Away]

Hey there, count me in for this one
Only comment i have so far is.. that leaf problem. If you think its an overfeed. Just stop feeding them. only water untill they turn a lighter green colour and start asking for food again. If it gets worse you might wanna flush.. But patience.. give them a few days to respond to your actions ^^
Good luck and keep em green!

 

[totemic]

- Sue (unk. Sativa) Veg Day 36 -
Growth is steady, but her (burn or deficiency) seems to be worsening/spreading.

I've stopped all nutes since I noticed it, just plain pH'd water. The pH of the water going in is 7, BUT her runoff pH came in at 5. Should I be removing the leaves when they get that bad?? Or can they possibly heal?

AK (Veg day 10)
Looking good, growing fast, minor leaf problem noticed

It's gotten no nutes yet, just plain water.

NL (Veg day 10)
Gaining size quickly! BUT I'm seeing some leaf curl.. Which I can't explain why. The temps/humidity are in optimal levels. Light distance 10"
Only nute so far is extra low dose of Big Bloom

When I did a little reading on Sue's sick parts.. Ive found in two different places that it could be a Potassium deficiency because she's "too tall.".. But that doesn't make sense in this case.

I will be transplanting AK into 3 gal pot very soon, roots are showing thru.

I'm concerned the "humidity" reading in the area isn't matching what the plants are feeling. They all seem a little dehydrated...

 

[MoonRocky]

Nice setup. I am in for the ride with you.

I sometimes get the bottom leaves wet with nutes and they get a little burnt.
I would remove those burnt leaves. They aren't doing there job anymore and the airflow
will be more important.

 

[Away]

I would let the leaves die off and then remove them. They will still be carrying a little energy for the plant to convert untill they've turned all brown and crispy thats just my thoughts atleast

 

[totemic]

Thanks for the feedback, people!

Sue
(Veg Day 39)

Seems happy. Every couple days some ties need tightened to keep things level. Good amount of tops, not too congested, breathing okay. In case you can't tell, pictured below is the path of the main stem over time, keeping an even, low plane:

That main stem is pretty long, she would have to be nearly 2-3 feet tall if left untied. LST is awesome! Maybe down the road I'll experiment with topping/fimming.. but I think we're doing just fine with just bends and ties for now. She's still got plenty of room to grow along, shooting out new tops like crazy.

Very few problem leaves remain, she has responded well to just plain water. I did trim a few fan leaves that were in very bad shape, but only a few. New growth seems just fine. Except for a touch of this on 1 or 2 leaves:

AK-48
(Veg Day 13)

Transplanted yesterday. No problems to speak of, I expect growth to explode as the roots acclimate to the rich Ocean Forest soil.

Northern Lights
(Veg Day 13)

No signs of leaf curl in the new growth. It seems a more deeper green than the AK.. is this a good thing?

I re-angled the circulating fan a bit higher, because I feel like it was blowing too directly on the two younger plants, causing them to seem dry and even disfigured. That has corrected pretty quickly.

One concern I have is with a light coming from the humidifier. It has a "dim" button that turns off the LED but still has a glowing orange light. I put black electrical tape over the face, but some light still shines out of the bottom. It is very faint light, and doesn't seem to be reaching far or reflecting anywhere.. But it still concerns me whether not this poses a risk to the dark period.

 

[Away]

Hey man!
What i mean about leaving your leaves is to not go about pinching a newly discovered disseased leaf every other day.
That way you will stunt her on a daily basis. So just wait a couple of weeks, then trim her for all the badness, then wait a couple of weeks before doing so again ^^ This will also promote new growth to the spots where you removed a leaf. Leaf gone = more light penetration.
Thats just my 5 cents..

Have you ever heard of defoliation?

Your little plant you say seems deeper green than the other one -
I think this is because you just transplanted her into some nute-rich soil. She's liking it, but you wont have to feed her next watering or two. The soil is a good new home ^^
I just did the same thing with 2 seedlings i had going, then transplanted into pre-fertilised soil. They became darker green but also more vibrant. And more 'strutting' towards the light.
But a good rule of thumb about the green colour (i think) is, that the lighter green colour that starts turning yellow means she is hungry. She wants food. The darker green means she's got food obviously. But keep an eye out for it, if the green colour turns too dark it might be signs of nitrogen toxicity. Not to worry though, i think both your girls look just fine

About the light from your humidifier -
In veg you want to use your humidifer to increase humidity obviosly. But in bloom you wont be needing the humidifer, as you will be wanting lower humidity to avoid mold. So dont worry at all. Just remove it from the grow-room when you flip the switch to bloom.
In veg-stage your room doesnt have to be light-proof at all. It's only while your plant is in flowering the stress can possibly make her hermy.

 

[totemic]

1/25/2015

SO I think we have a problem. I was examining Sue (Day 40 from seed), and I noticed some strange-looking objects:

My first impression? Male pre-flowers (balls) Which is weird because I've already spotted pistils in a couple other areas.

 

[CronicHempHog]

may be let it go another few days and youll be able to better tell what your looking at but
it kinda does look like nuts
and I gotta agree with away yes the leaf is messed up but
if theres green it still can feed off it wait till its ready to fall off on its own
the other one is yes when you water the leaves get wet near the bottom and you have it under the light the water helps magnify the lights to a point where it will show burns on the leaf

 

[totemic]

Sue - Veg Day 41

I took this mid-day through the light cycle. She has been looking a bit droopy all day, but was watered about 18 hours prior. I've been careful to not over-water, waiting until it dries out. But I'm concerned her drainage is very poor because when I water, the run-off is way out of proportion. I'll give her 3L of water, and only get maybe 5% runoff. If I add more, the pot just gets heavier and heavier with extremely slow run-off. The other plants don't seem to be having this problem.

Could this constant droopiness be a root issue caused by poor drainage? I regret not adding any additional perlite to the mix, which I know many people do. I've created over a dozen new drainage holes in the bottom with no luck. Is there a good way to increase drainage? Or perhaps I'm misreading the situation & this is just how this plant/strain grows. (I do suspect she is somewhat of a weak plant to begin with.)

 

[CronicHempHog]

is it only that one plant doing that?
sounds like you got some drainage issues if the other pots don't do that
the other thing might be ph issues

 

[totemic]

pH of my tap comes in just under 7, latest run-off just above 5. I think I overfed at first & shes flushing. I can't underestimate Ocean Forest.

I'm noticing shades of yellow, so maybe she's ready for some food on the next water.

Nute Question: What is the deal with Big Bloom? Meaning, I rarely hear of anyone using it, yet FoxFarm insists it can (and should) be used from sprout, as it's basically just a root agent that helps use other nutes. Or something. Anyway, since the first two low doses of Big Bloom & Grow Big, she got so siiiick. Perhaps it was me feeding before I see signs. I suppose "preventative measures" are tricky in this situation.

 

[CronicHempHog]

I did a grow with ocean forest from beginning to end with no nutes added fed plain tap beginning to end
might give you an idea of how much ferts is already in the soil

 

[Dutty Panty]

You had me at lumatek and hortilux for sure following thus grow.

As stated above fox farm does have extra nitrogen and tons of trace minerals. It's still a great soil and drains excellent. It's all I use except docs high brix setup.

I've been using fox farm for almost 6 years. I used to use there nutes at one time as well.

As chronic the hemp hog stated I think it's potentially a drainage issue. I'd let that girl dry out then lightly till the top of soil with finger tips and water slightly first few feedings after.

What's the temp at the canopy of your girl?

 

[totemic]

Temp at canopy clocks in at 78-81F, in direct light. Hood stays 8-10" above canopy. The fans are doing a great job blowing heat away between plants & light under the already air-cooled hood.

I've heard glass covers can absorb.. Or reflect.. Or otherwise diminish the HID lumen output.. So I'm trying to really test the limits. I can comfortably hold my hand 3-4" under the glass for minutes on end. I timed it, after 4 minutes my arm got tired. SO does this really mean my MJ would be okay that close? Would "lumen burn" be an issue at that point? Closer light would also reduce my footprint.

I'm pretty sure the little pods are preflowers, but still need to open up. I think back to week 3 when I thought I saw pistils before, I was incorrect.

 

[Dutty Panty]

Temp at canopy clocks in at 78-81F, in direct light, hood stays 8-10" above canopy. The fans are doing a great job blowing heat away between plants & light under the already air-cooled hood.

I've heard glass covers can absorb.. Or reflect.. Or otherwise diminish the HID lumen output.. So I'm trying to really test the limits. I can comfortably hold my hand 3-4" under the glass for minutes on end. I timed it, after 4 minutes my arm got tired. SO does this really mean my MJ would be okay that close? Would "lumen burn" be an issue at that point? Closer light would also reduce my footprint.

Ok so I've used air cooled hoods and unless you want that exact footprint or have hearing issues I'd choose a bat wing over them every time

Yes the glass can effect light output for sure. I always ended up removing mine unless heat was an issue.

 

[totemic]

Yeah I really underestimated how easy it is to keep this tent cool. I may remove the glass and see how it goes.


-AK on left, NL on right. Both 15 days from seed.

-I'm wondering how much longer I can veg the big bagseed lady. Shes showing roots through the bottom of her 3-gallon home. 42 days from seed.

Still seems a bit droopy. She's due for a water tomorrow, so she's been droopy since the last watering, but new growth seems to be doing well.

The NL is Auto.. So I figure the moment I see it start to flower, I will switch. I count 11 tops on the big girl so far. A drawback will be not letting the AK veg as long as I'd like.. But thats honestly okay If I can bring three plants to a full healthy harvest, that will be a huge success as far as this newbie is concerned

 

[totemic]

Well, some sad news, Sue the largest plant turned out to be male. The nodules ended up being pre-flowers, and the bananas started to show up. Big ol' balls. So, out of the tent it swiftly went. Oh well, it was always meant to be an experiment plant. I got some great experience with LST. When I threw it out, I decided to take a look at the roots, and this is what I found:

Unless I'm mistaken, the plant appears to be severely root-bound. This may explain the plant's sickly, weak, and droopy nature over the past couple weeks. This is evidently what happens when you veg for 42 days in a 3-gallon pot. So, all in all, this plant was a great learning opportunity, and a blessing in disguise because I needed the room! Now there's plenty of room for the other two plants & my recently-transplanted tomatoes! (I won't be keeping all the maters, at least one of them are gifts for someone else)

- AK on Left, NL on right - Day 17, no apparent problems, no nutes given yet

- AK - 8" tall, will start a little LST soon

- NL - 8" tall, thicker stem than AK

So it's clear these 3-gallon pots are not good for a very long veg time.. If the NL Auto doesn't start flowering in a week or two, I'll probably switch to flower. I think 5-gallon pots may be more suitable for my needs.

Question about flowering in a tent: Do you close the intake ports when switching to flower? During the 12-hour period, the tent may be exposed to light, and I foresee these intake ports letting light in. Other than that, there seems to be no light leak possibilities. But closing the intake ports seems like a way to mess up ventilation and circulation.

 

[CronicHempHog]

I leave em open but
I let it sag down so the light doesn't get in theres room for air to go out
the vents I have going in ones a small fan I stuck in the hole but that's against the wall
on the other side I got an 8 inch inline but
the inline only runs from an hr before lights on and up to an hr after lights off the fan is always on its a constant and it does move fresh air in
but on the inline side im using aluminum flex hose to go into the opening and the has a good 180 degree turn to reach the fan
and the distance it has to go so if I do go into the room at nightand turn on the room light the light does not get in the tent
I have verified this by sticking my head in the other port that's just hanging down but not cinched shut and theres no light going in
just so your not confused when I say fan its the little fan I stuck into the port hole
the inline is the inline fan which is not on 24/7
only the little fan is on 24/7 and its against a wall so very little chance of light getting in that way

 

[totemic]

It dawned on me as I thought about removing the glass, that my setup needs the hood to be airtight, since it's inline with my ventilation. I scrub & vent the air and cool the bulb with the same flow. Best possible use of the upper tent space. I'll make due.

Best thing to clean hood glass with? Windex?