Leaves yellowing, twisting, being weird, please help

[Tekk]

4 weeks veg from seed on Friday, soil, using floraflex, temps 75.6 average, rh 73.5%, growing under a single 650w led located 42" away dimmed to 50%. Tap water .01ec, mix cal mag to .3-.4 ec which i now just noticed is 4-0-0, floralex 2g v1 and v2 per gallon ec ends at 1.6-1.8, i than adjust my ph to 6.5. Fans blowing on the leaves but i wouldnt say hard, i have a heater maintaining 78f temp day and night cause of low led temps and trying to keep my vpd .8kpa but i blow the heat into a fan that blow straight up and then a bigger fan blows it down into the plant area, again i wouldn't say hard. 18on and 6 off, only watering when my probe says thee soil is dry or the leaves start to drop slightly. My lights are out midnight to 6am and the room is totally dark, no light leaks. I honestly dont know wtf to think, everything was minty until about a week ago max i noticed my new grow becoming lighter and than extreme leaf spiral on a leaf and weird sections on the leaf turning different colors. Thank you in advance for your help.

Tekk

 

[013]

Hey Tekk,

Welcome to 420! Ok you said soil but can you give details of the brand and if it was mixed or amended with anything because it matters, it looks like coco so more info will help for sure. Coco & soil look very similar but they are treated very differently. Also I see some tiny white spots on the leaves which added to the twisting leaves could mean pests. Of course it could be viroid or genetics too but let’s see what your grow media is.

No worries on light leaks because you are in veg, if your plants were in flower light leaks are bad news. Also most soil probes are useless, can you drop a pic of the probe you have so we can offer input on the device, but the typical cheapie 2 prong 3 way moisture, ph & light meters are best used as double marshmallow holder.

Ok so this last part sounds kinda whacky however it’s bitten a lot of new growers in the arse (including yours truly) but what kind of floor and subfloor is under the tent and where in the house is the tent located?

Alright my friend let’s see if we can get you sorted - more folks will jump in tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Tekk]

Hey Tekk,

Welcome to 420! Ok you said soil but can you give details of the brand and if it was mixed or amended with anything because it matters, it looks like coco so more info will help for sure. Coco & soil look very similar but they are treated very differently. Also I see some tiny white spots on the leaves which added to the twisting leaves could mean pests. Of course it could be viroid or genetics too but let’s see what your grow media is.

No worries on light leaks because you are in veg, if your plants were in flower light leaks are bad news. Also most soil probes are useless, can you drop a pic of the probe you have so we can offer input on the device, but the typical cheapie 2 prong 3 way moisture, ph & light meters are best used as double marshmallow holder.

Ok so this last part sounds kinda whacky however it’s bitten a lot of new growers in the arse (including yours truly) but what kind of floor and subfloor is under the tent and where in the house is the tent located?

Alright my friend let’s see if we can get you sorted - more folks will jump in tonight or tomorrow.

Thank you for the welcome and thank for trying to help me i appreciate it greatly First picture is my calmag product which i use to bring the ec of my water to .3-.4. 2nd is my ph pen. 3rd is my ec/ppm pen. 4th my as you say cheapie moisture meter but in my last grow i just waited for slight drooping of my leaves to water them. 5th my humidifiers, heater, fan setup for canopy level. 6th my pots which are in my tent on concrete floor in my basement which i just shot outside the tent the floor is 68.2f inside 77f shooting the plastic tray under my plant. 7th lights and fans at top of tent only one fan is running at its lowest level. 8 is a product i used for helping with root growth mixed as per prescription on the back of the product. 10 & 11 is my soil which im now realizing isnt soil at all which goes to show how green i am the white things is just some flakes from my medium that was on my plant i took it off and digitally scoped it and its nothing sorry i didn't see the specs until i posted it. I also scoped a lower leave i removed and didnt see anything. The strain is banana breath by thug pug which is banana og x Mendobreath f2 and i know Mendobreath is a cross of og kush breath which has been known to through some mutants as does Mendobreath. Hopefully that sheds some light. I feel hella stupid now thinking i was in soil this whole time, my apologies im trying to learn. I appreciate your time and effort and trying to help me, thank you.

 

[013]

Ok cool, soil is precharged with nutes, but wtf is FibroMoss? I think their version of FibroMoss is coco. So if I’m not too far off it’s a mix of peat & coco but I could be wrong. This could be treated as soilless and perhaps hydro rules apply which could mean that you are adjusting ph for soil when it should be adjusted for hydro. There is a difference between soil, coco and soilless.

I think you need to back off nutes big time and go with plain water & cal-mag, but I digress because I could be totally wrong here. Is it peat or is it coco? Looks like both. So coco cannot be allowed to dry out and coco gets low strength nutes everyday. So there’s the rub

But I know a guy who probably is much more versatile with those nutes & maybe that media too. Wait & let’s see what Nutty or one of the pros has to say - I’m just the doorman! Hey @NuttyProfessor - you’ve got a customer!!!

This part below you can run with this - pretty confident this is a major impact on your garden
Pens are fine but moisture meter is as useful as tits on a tailpipe. Yup cold feet can be the source of some real weirdness. Forget the laser temp gun and try this - take your shirt off and take a nap on that slab, when you wake your teeth will chatter. Bottom line a covered or indoor concrete slab in contact with soil stays about 55 degrees Fahrenheit all year round so regardless of room temp she’s freezing her roots off. Suggest elevating tent on pallet(s), putting sheet foam insulation down and elevate plants on plant risers.

I just edited above again -

It’s past my bedtime but the crew here will get you tuned up soon, check in on the flip side

 

[Pat Puffer]

It says it has a "balanced charge of micros" + wetting agent (usually yucca extract)

Doesn't sound like any NPK in there.

 

[Tekk]

It says it has a "balanced charge of micros" + wetting agent (usually yucca extract)

Doesn't sound like any NPK in there.

No npk sorry meant to post that but 10 pic limit. I was using floraflex for all my nutes and that calmag product.

 

[013]

run with it patient - I’m toast!

 

[Tekk]

Ok cool, soil is precharged with nutes, but wtf is FibroMoss? Kidding anyway, think you need to back off nutes big time and go with plain water & cal-mag. I suspect watering issues - you have done well to not overwater but think you need to water to runoff (not flush) but yeah water to 10% runoff to clear out the precharged nutes and use cal mag. Run that for a cycle or two and revisit in a week. But I know a guy who probably is much more versatile with those nutes. Wait & let’s see what Nutty or one of the pros has to say - I’m just the doorman! Hey @NuttyProfessor - you’ve got a customer!!!

This part below you can run with this - pretty confident this is a major impact on your garden
Pens are fine but moisture meter is as useful as tits on a tailpipe. Yup cold feet can be the source of some real weirdness. Forget the laser temp gun and try this - take your shirt off and take a nap on that slab, when you wake your teeth will chatter. Bottom line a covered or indoor concrete slab in contact with soil stays about 55 degrees Fahrenheit all year round so regardless of room temp she’s freezing her roots off. Suggest elevating tent on pallet(s), putting sheet foam insulation down and elevate plants on plant risers.

It’s past my bedtime but the crew here will get you tuned up soon, check in on the flip side

There is no npk in that mix. I was just looking at some guides and it kinda looks like a calmag deficiency but im no pro or even a noob. Passed my bedtime too, I'll definitely do the runoff things and I'll pick up something tomorrow to try and put under my plants. I'll ditch the moisture meter it was more of a way to generally try and figure out when i needed to water wasent relying on it very hard. Thanks for the help I'll check back tomorrow, i appreciate you taking the time to try and help me. Goodnight, ttyl.

 

[Pat Puffer]

A well known member (emilya) stated in a thread to shoot for 6.1 and let it drift.

What's best pH for feeding in straight peat moss ?

What's the best pH for watering an autoflower in peat moss

www.420magazine.com

You aren't so far off to cause major issues. Over all your plants look okay.

I couldn't find much that looked like that except light stress. It also is on the top of your plant; closest to the light. How close are your lights?

This is odd. It is a malformed leaf. The leaf up above it appears fine and not affected by what ever happened to the other. Sometimes our plants can do weird things. One of your pics looks like a "webbed" leaf. Like a blade didn't separate.

What is that yellow streak running down the middle? I have never seen that before with the twisting at the end. Something went awry on the molecular level here. This is not a deficiency. If so I never seen the likes of it. Closest I seen twist a leaf tip is a pH problem. I seen it twice and they can cork screw the very tips. Not like this where the whole blade is twisted. Has this leaf always been this way? My guess is yes.

This might be your only real issue besides your pH being a smidge high. One thing I know is a Mag def. I get it all the time with my bonsai's. The indicative chlorosis/yellowing between the veins. This is not bad at all. It is a sign nonetheless.

Someone else may jump on here with better info on the weird yellowing pattern on the top leaf tips.

Perhaps someone has seen deformities like yours and knows for sure the cause.

Maybe your sole issue is a slight mag def due to slightly high pH. How to lower the pH? Someone else needs to tell ya. I haven't a clue.

 

[NuttyProfessor]

Hi is it possible you hit these leaves with a nutrient feed at any time , the strange leaf kind of looks like a spill went down the centre vein of the leaf causing it to burn and split ,after a feed leaves hang in the soil and burn easy then after a while you forget and then the damage shows , but because it happened a while back you think its happening now , i ride out any strange bottom leaf marks until its spreads then i know it new damage or a new problem

 

[NuttyProfessor]

here is my own for example , notice the twist and the burns from my soil ,

pic one has a twist going on from sitting on my medium , pic two is where the leaves hung in hotter soil , pic three the same
this is my first year using fabric and noticed a lot more damaged bottom leaves from the fabric being wet and hot

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hey Nutty, what about the dark looking wilted leaf spots ? Wind damage or K def. ?
Doesn't dark green twisted leaves point to an N tox. ?
All things considered I think the pH in the soil / coco .... whatever it is, is off. Probably needs to flush & start feeding at 1/2 strength to get things back on track.
I agree with you on the bottom leave stuff. I get a lot of weird growth at 1st also. After I top between 4th & 5th node & cut off the 1st 3 nodes I never see that again so I don't worry about the bottom growth much.
If it were up top, I'd worry.

 

[NuttyProfessor]

On my plants or the OP ? see how easy i get lost
if my ones no there is no (N) tox and op there is no sign of (N) tox it would show really dark green leaves and tip clawing.
Also most of my plants get a little (K) at the start but it goes as they grow , happens most of my girls for some reason , so i use raw (K) as a back up, ( uncooked soil i think )

the waxy looking leaves on my plant COULD be from spider mite control i used make them darker green and wax like , horrible stuff

The OP has got some tip burn but it should grow out of it within a watering or two but worth keeping a close eye on as its just coming through

(N) excess

 

[NuttyProfessor]

This is the two little autos , i kept them stunted for a seed run, was mites so this is why they look like shit the SMC spray burned them also, was no (N) toxicity . i wasn't too bothered with the nute marks on my plants as they where stunted for seeds and the soil maybe ran a tiny bit hot as they are a smaller size of plants ,
compared to my other autos that i care more about so my eyes are on them more

They will be ok , after a watering or two , keep your eyes on the tips for burn and claw

 

[Tekk]

A well known member (emilya) stated in a thread to shoot for 6.1 and let it drift.

What's best pH for feeding in straight peat moss ?

What's the best pH for watering an autoflower in peat moss

www.420magazine.com

You aren't so far off to cause major issues. Over all your plants look okay.

I couldn't find much that looked like that except light stress. It also is on the top of your plant; closest to the light. How close are your lights?

This is odd. It is a malformed leaf. The leaf up above it appears fine and not affected by what ever happened to the other. Sometimes our plants can do weird things. One of your pics looks like a "webbed" leaf. Like a blade didn't separate.

What is that yellow streak running down the middle? I have never seen that before with the twisting at the end. Something went awry on the molecular level here. This is not a deficiency. If so I never seen the likes of it. Closest I seen twist a leaf tip is a pH problem. I seen it twice and they can cork screw the very tips. Not like this where the whole blade is twisted. Has this leaf always been this way? My guess is yes.

This might be your only real issue besides your pH being a smidge high. One thing I know is a Mag def. I get it all the time with my bonsai's. The indicative chlorosis/yellowing between the veins. This is not bad at all. It is a sign nonetheless.

Someone else may jump on here with better info on the weird yellowing pattern on the top leaf tips.

Perhaps someone has seen deformities like yours and knows for sure the cause.

Maybe your sole issue is a slight mag def due to slightly high pH. How to lower the pH? Someone else needs to tell ya. I haven't a clue.

-Floraflex calls for 6.5ph but i will still lower it to 6.1 to see how it reacts

-lights are 42" from the top of the plant and dimmed to 50% on a 650w led. I bot a lux meter to try and figure out my ppfd only to realize they dont work for led light so im using manufacturers recommend height and dimmer setting.

-the malformed leaf is really weird but nodes above it have been coming in normal so i dunno what to think. I have a ogkb mutant leaner not pictured and its veg is infamously slow which ogkb is known for and its a freak of nature, keeping it alive to see what happens haha.

-no this extreme spiral just happend in the past week was normal and the yellow streak showed up first and than the spiral achieved full 360 and than some corkscrew yesterday and none of the other tips on the same leaf are doing anything. Its possible i got nutrient rich water on it but honestly I don't think so.

-this strain is 6-7 years old minimum do genetics start to degrade/breakdown overtime? I soaked 12 beans, 11 cracked, put in soil 10 came up, 6 survived and 4 dampened off. Just figured id add some more information.

Thank you for your time and efforts, i quit instagram cause everyone is d-bag there and all the crazy privacy infringement by FB but im really happy to see how kind and helpful and awesome everyone on these forms has been to me so far, I appreciate it

 

[Tekk]

Hi is it possible you hit these leaves with a nutrient feed at any time , the strange leaf kind of looks like a spill went down the centre vein of the leaf causing it to burn and split ,after a feed leaves hang in the soil and burn easy then after a while you forget and then the damage shows , but because it happened a while back you think its happening now , i ride out any strange bottom leaf marks until its spreads then i know it new damage or a new problem

Its possible but honestly dont think so but I'll be mindful of this when i feed next time thank you.

 

[Tekk]

here is my own for example , notice the twist and the burns from my soil ,

pic one has a twist going on from sitting on my medium , pic two is where the leaves hung in hotter soil , pic three the same
this is my first year using fabric and noticed a lot more damaged bottom leaves from the fabric being wet and hot

Unfortunately I'm not experiencing any damage/twisting like this, my leaves arnt touching soil or the fabric. I'll be sure to watch out for that tho. Fabric pots are supposed to be amazing for letting your roots get oxygen so im excited to see how this run goes.

 

[Tekk]

On my plants or the OP ? see how easy i get lost
if my ones no there is no (N) tox and op there is no sign of (N) tox it would show really dark green leaves and tip clawing.
Also most of my plants get a little (K) at the start but it goes as they grow , happens most of my girls for some reason , so i use raw (K) as a back up, ( uncooked soil i think )

the waxy looking leaves on my plant COULD be from spider mite control i used make them darker green and wax like , horrible stuff

The OP has got some tip burn but it should grow out of it within a watering or two but worth keeping a close eye on as its just coming through

(N) excess

Ya i seen the tip burn its only happening on one of the 6 banana breaths but im gunna watch the others closely. My stupid advanced nutrients calmag is 4-0-0 which i think is crazy cause i see others being 1-0-0 so maybe it is too much nitrogen but i used 10ml of it in 20 gallons just to bring my e.c level to .3 from .1 out of my tap. I airstoned my tap water for 24hrs before mixing my nutes and than took all my numbers and ph up'd to 6.5 as per floraflex's feeding schedule.

 

[Tekk]

This is the two little autos , i kept them stunted for a seed run, was mites so this is why they look like shit the SMC spray burned them also, was no (N) toxicity . i wasn't too bothered with the nute marks on my plants as they where stunted for seeds and the soil maybe ran a tiny bit hot as they are a smaller size of plants ,
compared to my other autos that i care more about so my eyes are on them more

They will be ok , after a watering or two , keep your eyes on the tips for burn and claw

What do you mean stunted for seed? Im trying to f2 these banana breaths to preserve the genetics as they are getting up there in age and a pack of them is selling for huge money as they are hella rare. I wanted to f2 them so i could do 100 seed pheno hunt and look for a game changer.

 

[AdaminCO]

Sorry, late to the party, but I would focus more on the soil and your input pH.
Your leaves look like they are starting to have a Mag deficiency.
The microbial powder you're using is going to take awhile to work because it takes time to break down the organic matter in a way that your plant can use it.
It looks like your soil is primarily made of peat moss, which tends to require a lower pH on input. Almost like you would with coco. 5.8 - 6.1. That said, if you're growing organics, no salt based nutrients, pH doesn't really matter (within reason), but you're going to need to get them some nutrients. Cal Mag isn't going to be enough at this point.
If I were you, I would find a good balanced nutrient line for veg, and feed on the lower end of the pH scale (non organic), and see if you can get your leaves back to green. I'm starting to see some folks leaning on the new GeoFlora line for organics, but don't have any experience with it yet. @Emilya has, and swears by it, so maybe she can chime in and give you her opinion.
I second the twisted leaf possibly being hit with your water/feed.