Leaves turning up and turning yellow - Help!

I

inbloom420

New Member
Leaves turning up and turning yellow, HELP!

First grow...

I have three plans and all of them have leaves that are turning up, one has yellowing leaves and another starting to get yellow. The anxiety of this is driving me crazy, I have read as much as I can and still do not understand what the problem is. Here's all my info.

* Grow room is 2.5' x 4' x 7.5'
* They're 13 days old, first 9 to 10 days was going great
* Soil, using ½ fox farm ocean forest and ½ fox farm happy frog
* Each plant has one 42w (150w) cfl daylight (2800 lumens / 6,500 k) and one 42w (150w) cfl soft white (2800 lumens / 2,700 k)
* Lights are about 3" for the plants, moved them to 12" today
* Temperature range of room is 77 — 82
* Humidity range is 36 — 50
* pH level, according to the meter (not a good one) is about 7.5 to 7.9, just bought a new digital but waiting on the mailman
* Only watering when the soil is dry at 2", about very 2 days, but the soil is always wet below 2" (very wet), not much run off in the bottom of the pans
* Using spring water with a pH of 6.8, added some apple cider vinegar to try and lower the pH in the soil, no luck
* Added a fan to grow room on day 12, blowing straight on the plants, it's been moved now and not blowing one them, just above

Any suggestions would be most helpful, I'm ready to cry...

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I guess you'll have to change your screen name soon? I'm in the same situation but mine is in 'rockwool' and the one good plant, the first one that came up is yellow and almost brown. From my research so far I am more screwed up than you. With yours you are feeding the soil (dirt) I'm feeding just roots and it isn't going as planned. It seems that the more I read about it the more screwed up I'm getting. One guy will type "too much" and the other "not enough".. So if this is screwing you up don't read anymore..

I hope "we" get an answer soon and thanks for the pics, that looks like my gig sans the dirt. Good Luck either way
 
Take a few deep breaths and try not to feel frustrated. Seriously, this is your first grow, cut yourself some slack. I don't think there is too many of us here who has had a perfect first grow. You're bound to make mistakes along the way. When this happens you correct the problem and learn from it. Consider your first grow as getting to learn your plants needs and wants. I am by far no pro so I can't really say. I just noticed what you said about your ph but you knew it was high and used the vinegar. I am surprised that didn't work for you, I use white distilled vinegar which seems to be working for me. I don't have a ph meter atm.

I know you said you have been reading like crazy so I take it you checked out the plant abuse chart? And all the other links? I will refer a few people that helped me out during my grow. Keep your head up.
 
QueenTokelove said:
Take a few deep breaths and try not to feel frustrated. Seriously, this is your first grow, cut yourself some slack. I don't think there is too many of us here who has had a perfect first grow. You're bound to make mistakes along the way. When this happens you correct the problem and learn from it. Consider your first grow as getting to learn your plants needs and wants. I am by far no pro so I can't really say. I just noticed what you said about your ph but you knew it was high and used the vinegar. I am surprised that didn't work for you, I use white distilled vinegar which seems to be working for me. I don't have a ph meter atm.

I know you said you have been reading like crazy so I take it you checked out the plant abuse chart? And all the other links? I will refer a few people that helped me out during my grow. Keep your head up.
Click to expand...

I did read the plant abuse chart but din't see anything like mine.

Thanks....
 
InBloom,

Here's the bad news:

1) You have an overfertilization problem;
2) You have a pH problem;
3) Your plants are suffering from overwatering;
4) Your plants have a nitrogen deficiency.

If you don't do anything, these plants will stay sickly, become stunted and possibly die.

Here's the good news:

Plants under these conditions will languish but can survive for a long time,

AND​

I know exactly what is wrong with your plants and what you need to do.

This is about the fifth post I've made on exactly the same problem.

First, here's some information on the soil you're using:

FoxFarm Ocean Forest® is a powerhouse blend of premium earthworm castings, bat guano, and Pacific Northwest sea-going fish and crab meal. Composted forest humus, sandy loam, and sphagnum peat moss give Ocean Forest® its light, aerated texture.


FoxFarm Happy Frog® Potting Soil is alive with beneficial microbes and fungi that help break down organic matter and feed the plant roots. Between the earthworm castings, the bat guano, and the composted forest humus, your container plants have never felt so good.
Click to expand...

The Ocean Forest is probably OK. but the Happy Frog definitely is not.

Here are the most important things for growing marijuana ranked by order of importance:

1) Good Soil,
2) Proper Lighting,
3) Decent Nutrients.

Without good soil, you will never have a decent grow. Mediocre lighting and cheap nutrients are not deal breakers, but bad soil is.

MJ is different from house plants. Most of the commercial potting soils are made for house plants or other plants with strong, burrownig roots. MJ, on the ohter hand, has fine slender roots that can grow horizontally along along a surface or into soft, sandy soil.

The soil you are using has humus and other stuff that compacts like mud. House plants don't mind this kind of soil, but MJ can't penetrate it.

So, what happens when you use thick, dense soil, is that the roots of your plants will remain mired in the mud or, more likely, grow along the top layer or soil, down the sides of the pot and along the bottom. The central mass of mud will stay damp and the roots of your plant will never dry out.

Because the soil never dries out, your plant's roots are deprived of oxygen. The roots of all plants need oxygen or they will die!

As the roots are stressed, they can't supply nutrients to the leaves. So, even though the soil has more than enough nutrients (likely too much), the roots can't use it. If you add more fertilizer or anything else, you will just make the problem worse.

You need to repot these plants.

Ideally, you should never use soils that have fertilizers or nutrients in them. A good soil should be light and airy and have no added nutrients. It should have lots of sphagnum peat moss. The peat moss keeps the soil from compacting and the roots of MJ can grow into this type of soil.

A few commercial growers sell soils like this. I believe Canna has such a soil. Here's the info on a good soil by ProMix:

PREMIER® PRO-MIX® Ultimate Organic Mix is the ultimate peat/compost-based growing mix specially formulated for growing organic vegetables, fruits, and flowers. It is enhanced with Mycorise® and a Sea-based compost. The Ultimate Organic Mix is 100% organically formulated and is approved by OMRI. More details...

Pro-Mix Ultimate Organic Mix contains:

-Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss
-Sea-based Compost
-Limestone
-Perlite
-Mycorise
Click to expand...

Another good option (actually better) is to use Coco Coir. Many plant centers and nurseries carry coco. It either comes in blocks that you have to add water to hydrate, or in bags already hydrated.

If you look at my journal (link at bottom of message), you will see a tutorial on how to prepare coco coir from block form.

If you can't find any of these soils, or it's going to take some time to get some, repot using only the Ocean Forest and mix it with at least 50% perlite or vermiculite. These are light chips that help keep soil from compacting.

What you need to do immediately is get rid of the excess nutrients in the soil and get oxygen to the roots. You do this as follows:

Flush your plants with about 3 times the volume of the pots with water containing:

1) a proper pH buffer (more on this later); and
2) hydrogen peroxide (H2O2).

Run, don't walk, to your nearest pharmacy, drugstore, chemist, or witch doctor and buy a bottle of 3% hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen Peroxide is water on steroids, i.e., it has lots of free oxygen. To use it, add one tsp (teaspoon) of hydrogen peroxide per gallon of water that you use. This will add some oxygen to the water that the roots can absorb. (You can also use water that has been aerated with a air hose and pump, like those used for aquariums.)

You also have to correct the pH. Don't use apple cider vinegar! The pH of apple cider vinegar is between 4.25 and 5.0. Use either white wine vinegar or lemon juice, both of which have a pH of 2.5. You would need to use 100 (yes, one hundred!) times the amount of apple cider vinegar than lemon juice to get the same effect.

Use 1/4 - 1/2 tsp (teaspoon) of lemon juice per gallon of water. This will lower your pH to about 6.0. You can use the following pH Dosage Chart for reference:


pH Dosage Chart

pHChartFinal.jpg

Use the chart as follows:

The pH of your water is 7.9. Say you want to reduce it to 6.0. If you look at the chart (pH = 7.9), you will see that it takes 0.19 tsp/gal to lower the pH to 7.0 (neutral). If you look at the chart (pH = 6.0), you will see that you need 0.24 tsp/gal to lower the pH from 7.0 to 6.0. Therefore, you need 0.19 + 0.24 = 0.43 tsp/gal of lemon juice or white wine vinegar (this should be the normal concentration of 5% acetic acid).

If you don't have a vegetative fertilizer, you need to buy one. BotaniCare make one called Pure Blend Pro. There are lots of other companies that make good fertilizers. You need one for vegetation (like the BotaniCare) and one for flowering. The vegetative fertilizers are weighted towards nitrogen and help promote leaf grwoth, the flowering fertilizers are weighted towards phosphorus and potassium and are ideal for producing flowers.

If you have a vegetative fertilizer or if you're getting one soon, you can use it at 1/4 strength in a spray bottle and mist your plants with it. This is called foliar feeding, i.e., the leaves will absorb the nutrients directly. This is useful when the roots aren't delivering nutients to the leaves either from stress (overwatering, no oxygen) or from nutrient lockout (an imbalance of nutrients in the soil that prevent the roots from absorbing certain nutrients).

That's it! Do this and everthing will be fine. Once you transplant, your plants will immediately perk up and within a week will be totally healthy.

P. S. How do I know so much about this? I had the same problem with some crappy soil I bought and my plants suffered until I repotted them in Coco Coir. I documented all of this on my journal (the same pages with the Coco Coir tutorial).
 
GG- Thanks, that is a pantload of info there all right. I see you guys have soil? I am trying to grow my stuff in a Dealzer® Cash Crop® and my stuff went this way.. So I guess I AM really screwed up!!

I am trying to grow in this shit that is almost like insulation (greenish color when wet) and because only 3 seeds hatched the first time, I went to ChinaMart and got some "seed starters" (gauze wrapped discs that when water gets on them they expand; I'm certain down the road this disc will dissipate and chew up my bubbler. I'd send a PM but I haven't enough posts.

any neat ideas?
 
ggrant said:
Oh, I forgot. If you have any questions or further problems, you can post directly to my journal, I don't mind. (Everyone else seems to do it, LOL!)
Click to expand...

ThatBoyDean said:
Hi inbloom420

your problem looks like a Mg def to me (Dark vains and pale leaves), use some epsom salt or cal-mag to get your plants back to good health
Click to expand...


I added some epsom salt two days ago, two of them seem to have got worse, the third seems to have no change better or worse. I'm going to try the suggestions GGRANT posted.

Thanks
 
Alaskan1:
So you don't like the fox farms ocean forrest?
Click to expand...


Actually, the Ocean Forest isn't bad. It's the Happy Frog that doesn't have any peat moss. I haven't use these soils, but I think at least Ocean Forest is OK for mature plants. Seedlings are very sensitive to nutrient burn, so I prefer to use a "soilless" soil, i.e., one that is a medium and has no added nutrients.

BarryMcokiner: I have never used a hydro setup, so I'm afraid I can't be of much help. I guess the idea is to start the seedlings in some kind of cube or disc and pop them into the bubbler?

I know there are hydroton cubes that you can use for clones which can be put into a bubbler, but not sure what you use for seeds.

You should post your question as a new topic with something descriptive like "New Hydro Grower Needs Advice". This will get some attention. The only people who will see your post here are responding to a soil question.
 
I'm going to try the suggestions GGRANT posted.
Click to expand...

Please do. I have seen this problem many times, experienced it myself and have seen the turnaround by growers who took this advice.

By the way, a magnesium deficiency is indicated when the leaves start curling along the length of the leaves, i.e., the fan blades fold together. What you have are leaves that are curling towards their bases, which is usually a sign of overwatering.

InBloom, let me know how this works for you. Either post here or on my journal.
 
BarryMcokiner said:
GG- Thanks, that is a pantload of info there all right. I see you guys have soil? I am trying to grow my stuff in a Dealzer® Cash Crop® and my stuff went this way.. So I guess I AM really screwed up!!

I am trying to grow in this shit that is almost like insulation (greenish color when wet) and because only 3 seeds hatched the first time, I went to ChinaMart and got some "seed starters" (gauze wrapped discs that when water gets on them they expand; I'm certain down the road this disc will dissipate and chew up my bubbler. I'd send a PM but I haven't enough posts.

any neat ideas?
Click to expand...

next time use the smaller grodan rockwool cubes or rapid rooters, I run hydro and my plants seem to like those. I now have a ez cloner so no more of that!
 
Glad you're getting some good information. Just thought I would add before I started using coco, I used FFOF. I didn't have any problems using it from seedlings but they did get a little nute burn. But I honestly think that was because I didn't know FFOF ran a little hot and I added nutes on top of it. But definitely follow GGrant's advice. I have when I had issues with my grow and his advice did wonders. Not saying don't listen to anyone else, just saying Ggrant's advice has worked for me.
 
ggrant said:
Please do. I have seen this problem many times, experienced it myself and have seen the turnaround by growers who took this advice.

By the way, a magnesium deficiency is indicated when the leaves start curling along the length of the leaves, i.e., the fan blades fold together. What you have are leaves that are curling towards their bases, which is usually a sign of overwatering.

InBloom, let me know how this works for you. Either post here or on my journal.
Click to expand...

Hey ggrant,

I've completed your suggestions, will let you know in a few days how it went.

Got the new digital pH meter now and the water I'm using has a pH of 6.4 and the run off is 5.5.

Thanks for your help, looking forward to seeing them get better.. :)
 
QueenTokelove said:
Glad you're getting some good information. Just thought I would add before I started using coco, I used FFOF. I didn't have any problems using it from seedlings but they did get a little nute burn. But I honestly think that was because I didn't know FFOF ran a little hot and I added nutes on top of it. But definitely follow GGrant's advice. I have when I had issues with my grow and his advice did wonders. Not saying don't listen to anyone else, just saying Ggrant's advice has worked for me.
Click to expand...

QueenTokelove,

Thanks for your help, things are looking good now..
 

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