Leaves dying: Help!

[Silva Harpy]

Currently in the third week of growing, White Widow (feminized seed). The leaves are browning (starting at the tips) and we can't figure out why.

 

[Emilya Green]

I suspect your roots are in trouble. If the bottom of the container is not allowed to dry out so that the lower roots can see oxygen on each wet/dry cycle, the roots will shut down to protect themselves from the flood and the result can look like this.
So, some basics...
Are there drainage holes in the bottom of the container?
How big is the container?
How often do you water?
How do you determine that it is time to water?
How much water do you give when you do water?
Have you been adding anything to the water or adjusting pH?

 

[Silva Harpy]

Are there drainage holes in the bottom of the container?
Yes drainage holes are in the bottom

How big is the container?
Its currently in a 3 liter pot

How often do you water?
I water about every 3 to 4 days

How do you determine that it is time to water?
I water once the top of the soil has been dry for about a day and the moisture meter is below 3

How much water do you give when you do water?
I usually give it about 1 liter of water each watering

Have you been adding anything to the water or adjusting pH?
I have watered it once with nutrients but stopped as the problem continued to get worse.
The only other thing I have added is PH down as my tap water comes in at about a PH of 8, I've added about 1mL per 1L of water.

Could this be a PH problem?

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks Silva... from now on stop paying attention to the top of the soil. It being dry does not determine when to water. The important thing to notice is whether there is still water sitting in the BOTTOM of the container. These weeds need those lower roots to dry out each time before watering. If you let water pool down there, it will drown your roots, and that is what is happening right now to your plants.
When you water, adjust the pH to 6.3 every time. Water slowly like you were trying to fill up a sponge with water and see how much it can hold. Totally saturate the soil until it starts to run out of the bottom. Once you think it is full, wait a half an hour and come back and water again, until runoff. Now you have saturated the soil.
Then you need to sit on your hands for 3-5 days until the containers completely dry out. If you lift up the container, you should not be able to feel ANY water weight. You will think you are killing your plants... but don't water until they are as dry as the Sahara Desert... not just on top... all the way down. The weeds will love it.
I wrote a thing some years back on how to properly water a potted plant. I invite you to read it. It will help you to understand this wet/dry cycle that I am describing here. Try this for 3 cycles and I guarantee that your plants will look completely different and will be happy.

 

[Greenlizard]

I water according to Emilya's watering instructions and it works great.
Here is a photo that shows 3 young plants on the right in green cups. Notice how they are droopy.
They have completely dried out and the cups are very light. The plants are telling me its time to water. Now notice the next photo they are perked back up. That's 12 hours after watering. Let the plants tell you when to water.

 

[MochaBud]

Are there drainage holes in the bottom of the container?
Yes drainage holes are in the bottom

How big is the container?
Its currently in a 3 liter pot

How often do you water?
I water about every 3 to 4 days

How do you determine that it is time to water?
I water once the top of the soil has been dry for about a day and the moisture meter is below 3

How much water do you give when you do water?
I usually give it about 1 liter of water each watering

Have you been adding anything to the water or adjusting pH?
I have watered it once with nutrients but stopped as the problem continued to get worse.
The only other thing I have added is PH down as my tap water comes in at about a PH of 8, I've added about 1mL per 1L of water.

Could this be a PH problem?

Another thing to add is, if using tap water is there chlorine in it, like mine? If so, you need to let the chlorine gas of for at least 24-36 hrs, or until you can not smell the chlorine, that stuff will kill your plant "slowly"...and my tap comes out an amazing 6.3, the highest it has gone is 6.5...so I can be lazier than usual

 

[Virgin Ground]

I think the chlorine myth was disproven. It can effect your microherd if using soil. But nothing a healthy can't recover from. Add some mykos, if you are concerned.
Chlorine effects aquatics and amphibians because of the way they breathe and the porosity of their skin. It doesn't effect mammals and plants the same way. It can't be absorbed directly into mammals and plants systems to the same concentrations. We get only a small bit of it. Aquatics/amphibians essentially overdose on the stuff. That's why fish keepers use dechlorinators if they are using municipal water.

Chlorine is an essential nutrient, meaning that all creatures great and small need it to survive. Including our beloved plant.

Most municipalities use chloramines now anyway. This will not gas off. They bind ammonia to the chlorine so it will no longer dissipate.

If you are still anti-chlorine you can remove it safely using vitamin c tablets. It takes a surprisingly small amount. This works on chloramines as well.

 

[Emilya Green]

Another thing to add is, if using tap water is there chlorine in it, like mine? If so, you need to let the chlorine gas of for at least 24-36 hrs, or until you can not smell the chlorine, that stuff will kill your plant "slowly"...and my tap comes out an amazing 6.3, the highest it has gone is 6.5...so I can be lazier than usual

Mocha, love you, but I have to chime in on this one. Chlorine is actually one of the 17 elements that our plants actually need... it won't kill them at any rate. Secondly, most municipalities no longer use chlorine simply because it could gas off, and that made it very expensive to have to constantly add back into the water supply. Instead, chloramine is now used, which will not gas off, no matter how long you set it out.
If chlorine is of concern, it can be filtered out and it can be removed chemically by adding ascorbic acid (vitamin c) but unless you are running hydro or an organic soil grow, there is no real need to remove it. Actually, it helps keep mold from growing on the top of the soil and on the sides of cloth bags.

 

[Virgin Ground]

We must have been writing at the same time @Emilya .

 

[MochaBud]

Mocha, love you, but I have to chime in on this one. Chlorine is actually one of the 17 elements that our plants actually need... it won't kill them at any rate. Secondly, most municipalities no longer use chlorine simply because it could gas off, and that made it very expensive to have to constantly add back into the water supply. Instead, chloramine is now used, which will not gas off, no matter how long you set it out.
If chlorine is of concern, it can be filtered out and it can be removed chemically by adding ascorbic acid (vitamin c) but unless you are running hydro or an organic soil grow, there is no real need to remove it. Actually, it helps keep mold from growing on the top of the soil and on the sides of cloth bags.

I appreciate your input always, but I live in a Podunk town in SWMO and they still use chlorine here so....found this in my notes when I started doing organics......

 

[MochaBud]

I think the chlorine myth was disproven. It can effect your microherd if using soil. But nothing a healthy can't recover from. Add some mykos, if you are concerned.
Chlorine effects aquatics and amphibians because of the way they breathe and the porosity of their skin. It doesn't effect mammals and plants the same way. It can't be absorbed directly into mammals and plants systems to the same concentrations. We get only a small bit of it. Aquatics/amphibians essentially overdose on the stuff. That's why fish keepers use dechlorinators if they are using municipal water.

Chlorine is an essential nutrient, meaning that all creatures great and small need it to survive. Including our beloved plant.

Most municipalities use chloramines now anyway. This will not gas off. They bind ammonia to the chlorine so it will no longer dissipate.

If you are still anti-chlorine you can remove it safely using vitamin c tablets. It takes a surprisingly small amount. This works on chloramines as well.

Well, I appreciate the input...and I understand if people don't want to think chlorine can kill a plant, but I didn't learn from a "grow weed" site, I learned by trial and error, and believe me there was a lot of error...people have different ways that work for them, I'll stick with mine, cuz I can honestly say, I haven't had any probs for the last 7 years out of 10 that I've been growing "not one"...except that I used CFLs until recently

 

[Emilya Green]

Well, I appreciate the input...and I understand if people don't want to think chlorine can kill a plant, but I didn't learn from a "grow weed" site, I learned by trial and error, and believe me there was a lot of error...people have different ways that work for them, I'll stick with mine, cuz I can honestly say, I haven't had any probs for the last 7 years out of 10 that I've been growing "not one"...except that I used CFLs until recently

Understood that this works for you, and thank you for your input about the chlorine, but we are trying to advise a new member who needs to know the facts about things, not just a method that works for one guy in a podunk town but I also don't want to scare new people into believing that they can't grow cannabis with their local tap water without jumping through a lot of hoops to remove the chlorine products.
I live in West Central MO, and up here near I70 and the big cities, we no longer use chlorine. The article that you cited states that chlorine in tap water is not harmful, and advises to avoid excessive amounts around your plants... such as chlorinated pool water for instance. Tap water is not going to hurt the plants, unless you are dealing with an organic living soil, where the chlorine will kill the microlife or a hydro system where you need to keep the ppm low.

 

[Virgin Ground]

I didn't learn it on a "grow weed" site either. I learned it from sources like the center for disease control, various extension services( ie. ex service of Maryland), University studies and peer reviewed papers.

if your city has chlorine high enough to harm your plants, I hope to heaven you aren't drinking it either.

People in coastal areas can experience this. They have higher concentrations of chlorine/chloride. Plants near swimming pools will show chlorine toxicity.

Like I said, if you have astronomical amounts of chlorine in your water , mitigate it with vitamin C , another essential compound.

However, be aware that plants grown without chlorine which mitigates photosynthesis and controls the stomatic function are not going to be optimal either. You are going to have to weigh your options. When you prepare a 5 gallon bucket,perhaps you leave out 4 gallons to dissipate. Perhaps the 5th gallon has chlorine in it. Mix them together. Now your amount of chlorine has been diluted, hopefully to an acceptable level. And your plants is getting everything it needs.

 

[MochaBud]

Understood that this works for you, and thank you for your input about the chlorine, but we are trying to advise a new member who needs to know the facts about things, not just a method that works for one guy in a podunk town but I also don't want to scare new people into believing that they can't grow cannabis with their local tap water without jumping through a lot of hoops to remove the chlorine products.
I live in West Central MO, and up here near I70 and the big cities, we no longer use chlorine. The article that you cited states that chlorine in tap water is not harmful, and advises to avoid excessive amounts around your plants... such as chlorinated pool water for instance. Tap water is not going to hurt the plants, unless you are dealing with an organic living soil, where the chlorine will kill the microlife or a hydro system where you need to keep the ppm low.

I didn't learn it on a "grow weed" site either. I learned it from sources like the center for disease control, various extension services( ie. ex service of Maryland), University studies and peer reviewed papers.

if your city has chlorine high enough to harm your plants, I hope to heaven you aren't drinking it either.

People in coastal areas can experience this. They have higher concentrations of chlorine/chloride. Plants near swimming pools will show chlorine toxicity.

Like I said, if you have astronomical amounts of chlorine in your water , mitigate it with vitamin C , another essential compound.

However, be aware that plants grown without chlorine which mitigates photosynthesis and controls the stomatic function are not going to be optimal either. You are going to have to weigh your options. When you prepare a 5 gallon bucket,perhaps you leave out 4 gallons to dissipate. Perhaps the 5th gallon has chlorine in it. Mix them together. Now your amount of chlorine has been diluted, hopefully to an acceptable level. And your plants is getting everything it needs.

I in no way intended to offend anyone, so if I did I apologize, but I figured if someone's going to be schooled they should know all the variables as to learn "what's best for them" just like we all did, because what works for 1 person does not work for all, so I usually err on the side of caution, like me I've been doing things "this way" for so long it's just habit now and works very well for "me", but hey that's what I'm here for ultimately...to learn what I don't know...and I have to remember that not everyone has the same resources that others do.......

 

[Silva Harpy]

So all the arguing and debate aside I got some updated pics of 2 of the deteriorated leaves I just trimmed off. Now I do also believe the deterioration has slowed down since I took up the new watering habits, in the next few days is will be time to water again and I will be beginning nutrients once again. If anyone has any other info on what this could be please let me know.

 

[Virgin Ground]

We were just having a "polite" disagreement. No harm, no foul. This is how we learn etc.
If you were put out by it, my apologies. It was no ones intention to offend.

How is your new growth? It takes a while to see improvement in soil.

What are your temperature and rh numbers?

 

[Silva Harpy]

We were just having a "polite" disagreement. No harm, no foul. This is how we learn etc.
If you were put out by it, my apologies. It was no ones intention to offend.

How is your new growth? It takes a while to see improvement in soil.

What are your temperature and rh numbers?

Oh no don't worry that was just my segue into the conversation I don't care what you guys talk about its interesting to read. Anyway temperature is usually between about 22 and 26 Celsius and RH around 40%, new growth is great I have kind of noticed a slow down in new growth but that might also be contributed to the fact that I stopped fertilizing for a little bit, otherwise the problem doesn’t start to show up in the leaves until they are some of the biggest oldest ones on the plant.

 

[Virgin Ground]

Ok, good.
Do you have a way to bump up the humidity? Closer to 60-70%?
Dry air causes stomata to close. They are trying to preserve the moisture that is in the leaf.
Open stomata allow the plants to transpire easier and in turn drink easier.
It would make things... easier on her.

 

[Silva Harpy]

Ok, good.
Do you have a way to bump up the humidity? Closer to 60-70%?
Dry air causes stomata to close. They are trying to preserve the moisture that is in the leaf.
Open stomata allow the plants to transpire easier and in turn drink easier.
It would make things... easier on her.

Ok i'll work on that, is just using a spray bottle and spraying the inside of the tent every now and again an ok way to do so?

 

[Silva Harpy]

So just a bit of a follow up plant is still growing very well but the damage on the leaves continues there is a so a bit of a change in the type of damage. If anyone could help figure out what this is and how to help it would be lots of help. Thanks!