Jon's Second Grow, First Grow Journal, Soil Grow Autos & Photoperiod

[Jon]

I can only offer what we do regarding LST. We start tying branches as soon as they can reach where we want to tie them down. If you wait too long, they'll get brittle and you have a higher chance of breaking branches off. We split our main trunk last round waiting too long.


Lookin good in there man

Thanks! Yeah same here. What does "we split our main trunk" mean?

 

[Michael Hunt]

Went to bend branches out on our topped plant from seed (so it had matching nodes) and the main trunk split right down the middle about an inch and a half Not the hardest fix but still not a sound you want to hear when carefully bending branches down

 

[Jon]

Went to bend branches out on our topped plant from seed (so it had matching nodes) and the main trunk split right down the middle about an inch and a half Not the hardest fix but still not a sound you want to hear when carefully bending branches down

Ah gotcha. That's cool. I'm way careful. I err on the side of less bending. Several of those stakes I used are not even attached to a branch, they are just pushing a lower branch to the side of a taller tied down one so they all get light. Until they're in their fives this is about the extent of the LST I'll do.

 

[Jon]

Photoperiod: Day 35 Veg
Autoflower: Day 24 (4), Day 16 (2), Day 12 (3)

Photoperiod:
Plants are starting to take off now. No more signs of nute or light burn. Getting very close to transplant. I started them back on the Grow Big (part 2 of the Fox Farms trio), but CAREFULLY this time. So this week the girls are getting Big Bloom (part 1) at 50% and Grow Big (part 2) at 25% of their recommendations. It's been a couple days now for the first plants to get it and they show no signs of any issues from it. In fact, they really needed the nitrogen and the first ones to get the nute mix are showing greener after a few days. The brunt of the torch was borne by the one Jelly Rancher, much more so than any of the others although all of them were touched to some extent. What a dope I am sometimes. You can see in the pictures a comparison shot from this morning of the two Jelly Ranchers (they were both up for watering this morning). The one that got torched I had to remove much more dead, fried leaf material than the other. But she's bouncing back nicely now. Took a week or eight-ish days for all the plants to get it back in gear. Today is the first day I notice their growth has picked back up. Lol. Grow and learn.

Autoflower:
Transplanted the last three autos into their final homes this morning, so now we have a nice nine-unit condo development in the auto tent. The picture is minutes after they were finished and watered and the tent rearranged and cleaned up, so they're still a bit droopy here at 7 am. Now, four hours later at 11 they are all standing up straight and loving life. I reiterate: that idea that you shouldn't transplant autoflowers and that if you do it'll "cost them" recovery days is complete bullshit. I obviously transplanted all nine from Dixies and all nine of them, four different strains, LOVED the transplant. If you do it right it's easy, painless to the plant, and allows the plant to begin life in it's final home with a sweet ass, well established root ball. Zero recovery time. In fact, more like the opposite. They were doing great in the Dixie cups, but within 12-24 hours from transplant into the three gallon pots they kicked it up a gear and have taken off like they're on fricking steroids. FAR exceeding my expectations. There's TONS of growth/branches coming out everywhere and I am tucking all the fan leaves to expose it to the light. As soon as they are long enough in a few days I will tie them all down and start LST/bending the main cola to the side. I continue to be just in awe of how well these guys are doing. I frankly expected a bunch of weird looking plants that were just somehow "not quite real pot plants." Or something, I don't know what, but not what I have going on. It's awesome.

Pictures:
- Autos front view
- Autos side view
- Jelly Rancher 1 (the one who got torched the worst by far)
- Jelly Rancher 2

Hump day. Happy growing.

 

[Michael Hunt]

Glad to hear they have finally started showing signs of growth again . Do you know how long you plan to veg for? They will likely double in size in nearly every direction once you kick em over to 12/12.

 

[Jon]

Glad to hear they have finally started showing signs of growth again . Do you know how long you plan to veg for? They will likely double in size in nearly every direction once you kick em over to 12/12.

Yeah I know...I was thinking to try and keep them in veg for 60 days total. That's another 25 days. Pretty sure that's doable.

 

[PrimeScale]

My first grow I veg’d for 8 weeks. (56 days) and flowered for 9 weeks plus a bit. Breeder suggested 65 days of flowering. I grew in a 3x3x5’ tent. Not issues with the size. That was only 2 plants. I could have had 4 in total and would have been fine.

 

[Jon]

My first grow I veg’d for 8 weeks. (56 days) and flowered for 9 weeks plus a bit. Breeder suggested 65 days of flowering. I grew in a 3x3x5’ tent. Not issues with the size. That was only 2 plants. I could have had 4 in total and would have been fine.

That's awesome. Yeah, my theory exactly - the longer they're in veg the bigger your buds will be and better because the roots are that much better developed. Yes?

 

[Jon]

So here's a quick autoflower update:

I just performed my first ever attempt at LST on an auto. Without topping. For some reason, to my inexperienced eye, the main cola still being in place makes it more difficult. When you top it's kind of self explanatory. I'm sure that'll change as I gain experience, but I wasn't quite sure what to do at first. So I pulled the main cola over as close to horizontal as I could, and I pulled it to the one space that didn't have a new shoot growing underneath. That opened up all this new growth I hadn't even seen yet. (HOLY SHIT) Then I spread the main shoots of the new growth out as best I could and used the skewers to alter the course of the smaller shoots so they'd start heading in the direction I wanted. The plant did most of the work to be honest, but is this approximately what we're supposed to be going for? It seems like it's pretty on based on others work I've seen in here. Anyway, we're going with it and we'll see how we have to adjust as it grows out. But all that new growth/bud sites made me CRAZY INSANE HAPPY when I first saw it. I was so pleased with the result that I repeated the process for all four of the oldest plants, all of which are about the same size and height.

This is the Gorilla Zkittlez. She's super sexy.

 

[Jon]

Hey Guys -

I have some questions about autoflowers.

I looked more closely at the Gorilla Zkittlez auto in the above photo. She broke ground in a Dixie cup 24 days ago. Now I know I only have one grow under my belt, it was a photoperiod grow, and I very well could be wrong.....but I think this plant is beginning to bud already. The center of each bud site, and especially the growth on the upper main cola sure look like preflowers and the beginning of budding to my inexperienced eye. Her tops are all starting to shoot out these really thin leaves that weren't there two days ago or even this morning really. When I look at the Cinderella Jacks, all three of them look different in the same exact spots. There are new LEAVES coming out, not what looks like the beginning of buds. They don't have those little almost white hairish looking growths like the GZ does, especially up by the main cola. Big, obvious difference once I looked closely. So again, I really don't know, and I'll obviously know for sure very shortly, but I'm just wondering, if anyone has any autoflower experience,

- Is it possible that my plant is beginning to bud on Day 24? The specs on this plant, Barney's Farm Gorilla Zkittlez auto feminized, is that it's ready to harvest in 75 days. That's kind of how I chose the strains in the auto tent - all four of them are basically supposed to have a 75 day grow cycle. So I figured she wouldn't start budding until maybe day 35 or so. If this plant is indeed starting to bud on Day 24, is it possible that she stays in budding and takes 50 days from now to finish? That seems like a long time compared to a 24 day veg cycle to my non-auto growing logic. My logic tells me if she's budding already on Day 24 she's going to be finished before 75 days. How long do autoflowers remain in bud, from the beginning of budding to harvest? While I'm sure this is strain specific, is there a "general" idea anyone can provide? I'm also wondering about defoliation. I planned on doing this when the plants were pretty well into budding, like maybe week 6 or so? But if this GZ is budding now, would it perhaps be wise to remove a couple fan leaves? I tucked them for the moment and that's okay, but they're big and they keep springing back from the tuck. The first node fan leaves are basically completely covered up anyway, but removing those two doesn't really expose anything to more light, or does it? Any help on defoliation with autos is I guess what I'm looking for. And finally, has anyone grown Gorilla Zkittlez autoflower who might be able to communicate with me a little bit?

I only have the one Gorilla. If she's starting to bud, she's starting to bud. I have zero control, which I'm finding with autoflowers is both kind of cool and exciting and also kind of frustrating and leaves me wondering a lot. I definitely prefer the control, that's already clear in 24 days of growing these things. The entire auto thing is an experiment, and I'm totally cool if this girl is budding already, even though I'd like them all to get way bigger than they are now before they started budding. It is what it is, and it's actually making me laugh. I looked at a bunch of grow journals from people who were supposedly "growing" this, and every one I saw was inexperienced growers who didn't seem to know what they were doing. I didn't find anything I considered a reliable reference point. The pictures on the Barney's Farm site show the plant at a variety of days, mostly buds, but those plants are all perfectly grown show plants for the website grown by super experienced growers, and I have no illusion that I will be able to produce a show plant my first shot at autos.

Any help?

Thanks!

 

[Backlipslide]

Hey my apologies jon!! Been away from the mag as of recently!! Hope everything’s going okay!!

 

[Jon]

Hey my apologies jon!! Been away from the mag as of recently!! Hope everything’s going okay!!

Yo man, no apologies necessary! Yeah, things are really cruising now. The photos are all recovered and finally have begun to move again. I probably cost them a week, but that's okay, it'll let me keep them in veg that much longer. I have the six main colas on each plant evenly spaced out and pulled down and horizontal-ish, and the middles of all the plants are opened up wide. I have a perfect double branch thing growing in the middle out of each of the six branches, so in theory given enough time those will become 12 more colas, right? That would give me 18 bud sites a plant right now. Am I off on that? Isn't that how it works? I had to cut more dead leaf material off them in general (except for the Pineapple Upside Down Cakes, they are beasts and laugh in my face no matter what I throw at them) than I wanted to, but the shit was dead, so no point to not just snip it off. As a result two of the plants are a bit thin but well on their way back. I will say the two that I had to take off the most dead leaf on are the two who's water uptake was slowed the most noticeably. That makes sense to me considering if there's less leaf to perspire, there's less water that the plant can process and eliminate. Is that correct? I assume that will pick back up as they grow more leaves back.

The autos are where the real action is. The GZ is budding I'm pretty sure as of yesterday. I LSTed all the four original transplants. All nine are now in their final homes. All nine are amazingly healthy and I have TONS of bud sites on the plants I LSTed. All four strains are taking nutes like champs. They have yet to not like one thing I've done, including the transplant. I'm real happy with them and way pleasantly surprised. That said I wish they'd stay in veg longer to get bigger first, but it is what it is. My hope/goal was to get a pound total from the nine autos. I'd have to average a little less than 2 ounces a plant. That is possible, I've seen it millions of times. Not sure it's possible for ME this time, but who knows? I have literally made ZERO mistakes with these plants. And if they're going to bud for around 50 days each, they have plenty of time to get big (for a 2 1/2 foot tall plant or whatever).

Anyway, that's where things stand by my estimation. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Jon]

Autoflower Update: Day 25 (4), Day 17 (2), Day 13 (3)

Well, the Gorilla Zkittlez is definitely budding. The Cinderella Jacks are not yet. These four are the 25 day plants. This is going to get interesting pretty quickly now. I had a conversation earlier that helped me realize the training is only beginning on these guys. I'm thinking about dropping my extra scrog screen on top of them, anyone have any thoughts on that idea? As far as nutes, so far, all four of these strains are loving the nutes. I don't have the slightest blemish on a single leaf. This week they got Big Bloom at 50% and Grow Big at 50%. They're eating them up. I keep seeing things that say that autos don't need that many nutes and you should barely use them, then I see a ton of journals where growers feed them as much as they wish to be fed. Can't seem to find a consensus. I say they're pot plants, and I'm gonna nute them till they tell me to stop. I'm hitting them with CalMag plus Iron once a week or so. I put a bunch of mycorrhizae in the transplant holes when I transplanted them. I'm using tap water, which has a good ph here and combines well with nutes in terms of runoff ph. I have had zero issues with ph and they have been between 6.3 and 6.8 since I switched to tap water. They seem to be loving that level, so we'll attempt to keep it there the whole time.

Not much else to say but wanted to show how the girls look today. I used the flash to try and offset the blurples but it only works nominally well. My flash sucks.

Photos: Some individual shots and a group shot
- CJ #1
- CJ #2
- CJ #3
- GZ #1
- The gang

Almost Friday! Happy Growing guys.

 

[Jon]

Photoperiod Update: Day 37 Veg

The girls continue to recover. They are draining the pots in a little less than 36 hours. I can transplant them anytime, and will probably do so the morning after their next watering. I expect they will take off once they hit the fives. Center growth is humming along and all new growth is finally all coming out sweetly and starting to pick up pace significantly. Took me a while to get these guys dialed in, but they have survived my clumsy ham-handed rookie mistakes and now are beginning to look like real plants. I believe I have them where they want to be. I hope I'm done being stupid. Lol. They are getting 50% Big Bloom and 50% Grow Big for now, which will pretty much take them to budding with a little tweaking, occasional CalMag plus Iron hits, and once a month top dressing with mycorrhizae. Train, train, train. I will say, this being my first experience with a "sunlight" type spectrum, very powerful light where you can see the plants as they truly are - it's weird. Especially when I look in the blurple tent at the autos. The difference is amazing. I see every speck of dust on the floor of the photo tent. The light has definitely been a significant part of "dialing in" this grow, but I believe I have her kind of figured out now too. So we'll see what happens.

Photos:

Just one, a group shot of the girls from the morning of Day 37.

Enjoy! Have a great weekend guys.

 

[Michael Hunt]

Photoperiod Update: Day 37 Veg

The girls continue to recover. They are draining the pots in a little less than 36 hours. I can transplant them anytime, and will probably do so the morning after their next watering. I expect they will take off once they hit the fives. Center growth is humming along and all new growth is finally all coming out sweetly and starting to pick up pace significantly. Took me a while to get these guys dialed in, but they have survived my clumsy ham-handed rookie mistakes and now are beginning to look like real plants. I believe I have them where they want to be. I hope I'm done being stupid. Lol. They are getting 50% Big Bloom and 50% Grow Big for now, which will pretty much take them to budding with a little tweaking, occasional CalMag plus Iron hits, and once a month top dressing with mycorrhizae. Train, train, train. I will say, this being my first experience with a "sunlight" type spectrum, very powerful light where you can see the plants as they truly are - it's weird. Especially when I look in the blurple tent at the autos. The difference is amazing. I see every speck of dust on the floor of the photo tent. The light has definitely been a significant part of "dialing in" this grow, but I believe I have her kind of figured out now too. So we'll see what happens.

Photos:

Just one, a group shot of the girls from the morning of Day 37.

Enjoy! Have a great weekend guys.

Loving the progress man! They should definitely take off once they hit the bigger pots. I cant wait to see that happen

 

[Virgin Ground]

I've even put em out in the sun when they're small

So glad you said that. I was considering giving them a bath in real sun outside for like six hours a couple days a week. My only concern with doing that is inviting bugs which would never be an issue otherwise. But this time of year here I might be able to get away with it. Is there any reason related to the sunlight to NOT do this? I get it about the bug potential. But is there any way natural sunlight can hurt them? It's obviously WAY WAY WAY more light than they get in any tent.

Member IntheShed grows his girls using sun during the day and leds at night. He would be a good person to get some tips about this from.

It certainly does allow the possibility of pests to gain a foothold.

 

[Jon]

Member IntheShed grows his girls using sun during the day and leds at night. He would be a good person to get some tips about this from.

It certainly does allow the possibility of pests to gain a foothold.

Yeah I already discounted the idea. I didn't spend $1150 on a light to not use it and see what it's got.

 

[Jon]

My first grow I veg’d for 8 weeks. (56 days) and flowered for 9 weeks plus a bit. Breeder suggested 65 days of flowering. I grew in a 3x3x5’ tent. Not issues with the size. That was only 2 plants. I could have had 4 in total and would have been fine.

Yup. My first grow I veg'd for 48 days. I would have gone longer but I knew nothing of topping and by day 48 the plants were almost 2 1/2 feet tall in my 6'11" tent. The obvious thing happened - they stretched out of control and I ended having to spend hours tying down branches so the blurples didn't burn them. (120 10-watt LEDs, lol, they burn at anything lower than 16" and even that's pushing it) This time I'm coming at things from a much more educated perspective and have things under control. Lmao. But yeah, after 48 days of veg they flowered for exactly 70 days. The breeder specs said 56 - 63 days for flower, and every experienced person I know told me the breeders all underestimate flowering times cuz they want to sell more seeds, so add at least a week and probably two to all breeder specs. They were right in that case. I now know it depends on the breeder. Some are right on point. My photo grow now is all Humboldt Seed Co. genetics, and I spoke with them directly about the flowering times for the strains I am growing. (Pineapple Upside Down Cake, Blueberry Muffin, Jelly Rancher) All of them are supposed to finish flowering in 45 days. Yes, 45 days. Sounds way too short I know. So I called them and spoke to them and they SWEAR and INSIST up and down the pike that these strains are all stable, predictable, and they WILL be finished or very close to it at 45 days. Lol. We'll see. Since I made the dumb over nute-ing mistake at the same time as I light burned them and topped them (perfect storm of rookie dumbness, lol), I basically stunted them for a week or maybe eight days. They're back, recovered, and cruising now, but because of that they aren't yet as big as they would be otherwise. I believe that is going to allow me to keep them in veg this time for 60 days, depending on how quickly they fill out the scrog screen. I'm not married to 60 days at least, but it is kind of a target. If you want to see my first grow pics, including one with an out of control tent that's pretty funny I think, check out then very first page of my journal. Have a great weeekend.

 

[Jon]

Weekend Update (heh)

Photoperiod: Day 38 Veg
Autoflower: Day 27 (4), Day 19 (2), Day 15 (3)

Photoperiod:
This morning was a watering morning for three of the girls so I gave them all clean tap water with a dose of CalMag plus Iron. I give them CalMag about once every three weeks or so. Closer and closer to transplant, just waiting for the plant that takes the longest to drain the pot fast enough. All of them continue their recovery and look pretty solid. The Pineapple Upside Down Cakes are nutso little bushes of density and both are remarkably similar. Same pheno I guess. Hard to tell with the two Jelly Ranchers as the one got so torched she doesn't quite look like herself just yet (heh), but I believe they are the same as well. If she hadn't gotten so torched I believe she'd look very much like the second one. And the Blueberry Muffin is cruising along - she's my most delicate plant. The leaves are soft on her, unlike the Pineapple which has tougher leaves. She's a little lighter green than the others. Can't wait to see her in a few weeks. All the center growth on these girls should be up by then, they'll be in their final homes a while, and the scrog screen will be getting worked. Anticipation.....

Numbers:
Average Temperature: 72 - 76 degrees
Average Humidity: 45 - 55 percent
Ph range: 6.3 - 6.6
Lights: 18", full power (550 actual watts in veg mode), approximately 800 par
Day/Night: 18/6

Autoflower:
The autos are doing real well. The Gorilla Zkittlez is now on Day 27 (overall)/Day 3 (flowering). I have a bunch of bud sites and she is LST'ed fairly well. All the sites are getting light and all are approximately the same height. Managing just a little through her stretch I guess. The three Cinderella Jacks are beginning to bud to I think. If not today then tomorrow. They are only a little bigger than the Gorilla. So basically all four of them will be the same size to start budding and on the same time frame pretty much. I expect the other five plants to follow along a similar path in terms of timing. So all that said I installed one of my stretchy scrog screens above the autos. Not ready for it yet but it's in place and I like to be prepared. Will use it for support if nothing else and to try and keep the buds at approximately the same level. Not a scrog per se but a support trellis that'll help with some bud sites. But it seems most of them are set from the LST once they begin to bud. Anyway, it was easy and it can't hurt even if it's just for support. Based on the number of bud sites on each of them I think they are going to need support. I hope so. All the autos got a dose of CalMag today as well. I will begin the four budding plants on the Tiger Bloom part of the nute schedule with their next watering. Let's see how greedy these girls are. Very, I'm hoping.

Numbers:
Average Temperature: 76 - 82 degrees
Average Humidity: 50 - 70 percent
Ph range: 6.4 - 6.8
Lights: 20", full power (VEG and BLOOM settings, 604 actual watts in full power mode with the UFOs), approximately 750 par
Day/Night: 22/2

Overall we're in pretty decent shape for the moment. Have a great weekend everyone and happy growing. Or, if you're having a Saturday lunch beer as I am, HOPPY GROWING. Lol.

Photography:
Lots of closeup veg porn today - first five are closeups of the five photos, and the second five are closeups of the four budding autos and a group auto shot:

- Pineapple Upside Down Cake 1
- Pineapple Upside Down Cake 2
- Jelly Rancher 1
- Jelly Rancher 2
- Blueberry Muffin 1
- Gorilla Zkittlez auto 1
- Cinderella Jack auto 1
- Cinderella Jack auto 2
- Cinderella Jack auto 3
- Group shot of the autos

 

[Jon]

Autoflower Update
Day 28, Day 20, Day 16

Forgive the almost daily autoflower updates guys but I am finding that things move incredibly quickly in the autoflower tent and there is daily attention needed to achieve what I'm trying to achieve, which is basically maximum bud sites without topping. And since it's my first auto try I need it for my own documentation. This beats the hell out of the typewritten, printed and hard copy foldered form my first grow journal took, lol. Anyway, I have installed a scrog screen that is ready to come down in a few days. All four of the 28 Day plants are budding or beginning to bud. They will now get their own special nutrient mix featuring the Tiger Bloom addition with their next watering. Can't wait to see how they like that. The other plants are only separated by a few days and are going to have to live with the same nutrient mix, as I'm not making three different ones and it's not necessary. Two are, however, so there we go. I continue to LST these guys and keep spreading them out. It's incredible how many bud sites are hiding in the middle of your plant and at the nodes below the colas, you just have to ferret them out a little bit and take the appropriate action to expose them to light. Pictures from above from the light's perspective are helping me out a ton. Shows you exactly what you need to move. I have even removed one or two fan leaves to expose more sites. Just a couple I couldn't tuck. Many others are tucked under. My understanding/impression is that I have maybe ten day to two weeks where they're going to stretch and continue to grow vertically, so at this point I am inclined to let them go from where they are now and let the screen dictate further training. It's going to make watering a pain in the ass, but I believe it will increase my yield. So that's the "plan." Lol. Secret agent stuff. Anyway, for any auto strain hunters out there, I can report that all three of the strains I have LSTed or begun to train, the Cinderella Jack, Gorilla Zkittlez, and Pineapple Express, have seemed to take to it very well. All three strains have relatively softish and flexible branches that are easy to mold. All three strains seem to really like nutrients, at least the Fox Farms trio of nutes. I have yet to have the slightest nutrient issue and I'm feeding them three times a week at 50% Big Bloom and 50% Grow Big with occasional shots of CalMag. So all three seem to be a bit hoggish for nutes, not sure every strain is like that, I doubt it.

I was a little concerned about the different starting times but have always leaned on "they're close enough" that it'll be okay. They just have to learn to compromise on their environment a bit. I lean the environment to favor the budding plants. Anyway it's turning out that it's an advantage. Watching these first four plants has given me a much more solid idea of what the other five will do. So for example, I have learned that you are best served to begin training these guys as early as possible. To wit, there's a closeup of my youngest plant, a Pineapple Express, in the pictures. I have one stake with one wire, that's it. All I did was pull the top over and down as far as the stem would let me, CAREFULLY, and staked it there. In 24 hours I have that new middle growth coming up vertically as a whole new cola site equal to the main. The others are soon to get a similar treatment. So this learning curve, because of the time differences, is going to continue in similar fashion all the way through, which should work out pretty well. I'm ready for the smells to begin coming. There's nary an odor yet.

I also have made a friend who decided that the grow room was the grooviest place for him to be. He was guarding the tents when I cam out to check the plants last night and was gracious enough to pose for a picture.

Pictures:
- Autotown side view
- Autotown opposite view
- Cinderella Jack closeup overhead view (light's perspective shot)
- Pineapple Express early training closeup
- My new friend and guardian of the grow room