It's a fine mess I've gotten myself into!

[navigator]

What Strain is it? nirvana's chrystal
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? hybrid white widow and northern lights - do not know percentages
How Many Plants? four
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage? vegetative
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long? 11 weeks (it's a long story)
If in Flowering Stage... How Long?
Indoor or Outdoor? indoor
Soil or Hydro? soil
If Hydro, Reservoir size?
If Hydro, Reservoir Temperature?
If Hydro, what type of Medium?
If Hydro, what type of Setup?
If Soil... What is in your Mix? ff ocean forest with a bit of diatomaceous earth and mixed in
If Soil... What Size Pot? 3 gallon air-pots
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many? two 250 w led and one 400w with a philips cmh bulb.
Is it Air Cooled? no
Temperature of Room/Cabinet? 65 - 75 degrees fahrenheit
RH of Room/Cabinet? 40-45%
PH of Medium or Reservoir? 6-6.5
Any Pests? no
How Often are you Watering? i use blumats with a 5 gallon reservoir
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used? earth juice per bottle directions
Size or Square Footage of Room? 3'x3' tent and 4'x6' grow room

i was going to pitch these 4 plants because they are having such a hard time, but decided to see if i couldn't save them and learn something in the process. i have 11 clones from these 4 plants, 6 are about 2 1/2 weeks old and 5 are just one week old and they are doing great - so far - so figured if i could find out where i went wrong, it would benefit these clones and my future grows.

all 4 plants were doing great until mid to end of october. i think i either under or over fed them and it's been all downhill ever since. i've just bought a blue lab ec meter last week, and am hoping it will help me get everything back healthy again.

i had written a lengthy post, but lost it when i went to upload pictures, so i hope this is enough information that someone can give me good direction. i've put all 4 plants in the tent under a 400 watt cmh and moved the 6 oldest clones to the grow room under the led lights. the other 5 clones are still under the cfl.

i really see the clones as my future production, but want to work with the 4 sick plants to try to save them, i just don't know what to do.

 

[Rifleman]

Looks like ph problems. I don't do soil but if I remember correctly your water should be around 6.5 for soil.

 

[KidGrow420]

Looks like ph problems. I don't do soil but if I remember correctly your water should be around 6.5 for soil.

It's not ph problems... Well there might be some issues in there with the ph, but it's defiantly not a ph the main cause of your problems...


What you have going on is several deficiencies from, nitrogen to potassium. Magnesium as well.. You "burnt tip" ones with a bit of pale tell you, you might have fungus issue's as well.. Generally when growing in soil, try to keep the water ph between 6.2 and 7. But if you use tap water generally your in the clear. and can get away without a ph tester. (BUT BUY ONE). Start off with a immediate (5ml/gallon) of cal mag "cal-mag flush" I like to call it. It will clear up all locked nutrient in your soil but yet give the plant what it needs without over doing it.. So just fill the pot until you see run off. Then let dry for a day or two.. You'll be back to normal in no time Then just go back to a reg feeding sched, with a bit more nutes then your using. IF organic, then every 2nd watering do a cal mag watering. Hope this helps.

 

[navigator]

yes...definitely ph problems. i found my original post and it does have a bit more information so i'll c&p here...

since i went off the rails, i haven't been able to get back on! i've kept them alive, but just barely.

last week i got a blue lab ec pen and tried feeding them an ec of 1.0 a few days ago, but no improvement.

i have 9 clones from these plants. 6 are about 2 1/2 weeks old, 5 are just one week old. they are all doing great. i've got the clones in the grow room under the led lights (got the broken one fixed) and i have the 4 plants in the tent under the 400 watt cmh light.

i was going to just throw the plants away and focus on the clones, but what i would really like to do is trouble shoot the 4 sick plants to try and fix them and apply what i learn to the 9 clones so i come out of this with more knowledge and some happy plants!

i've been thinking that maybe i could save them by giving them a good flush and a light dose of nutes, but i'm not sure.

and it is so confusing about the ph! some say in veg a ph of 5.5-6.0, but it would seem that would lock out calcium. and some say an ec of 1.0 is necessary, but others say an ec of .8 is better.

anyway, here i am determined to learn...

 

[navigator]

It not ph problems at all. Well there might be some issues in there with the ph, but it;s defiantly not a ph problem.


What you have going on is several deficiencies from, nitrogen to potassium. Magnesium as well.. You "burnt tip" ones with a bit of pale tell you might gave fungus issue as well.. Generally when growing in soil, try to keep the water ph between 6.2 and 7. But if you use tap water generally your in the clear. and can get away without a ph tester. (BUT BUY ONE). Start off with a immediate (5ml/gallon) of cal mag "cal-mag flush" I like to call it. It will clear up all locked nutrient in your soil but yet give the plant what it needs without over doing it.. So just fill the pot until you see run off. Then let dry for a day or two.. You'll be back to normal in no time Then just go back to a reg feeding sched, with a bit more nutes then your using. IF organic, then every 2nd watering do a cal mag watering. Hope this helps.

wow...that is so cool...just to have some idea of which way to go...i'll start tomorrow.

any idea how i wound up here? i'm growing organic. i had always "assumed" that my city water was a 7 and that was good...but i got a ph meter and sometimes it comes in at 7.2 or 7.5 so i've started using vinegar to bring it down to the 5.8-6.5 range. the ej nutes take the water right down to 4.3 or so...it's amazing...even if i bubble them for a couple of days.

i also got a ec meter because the blumats were confusing the feeding calculation in my mind and i think they got hungry, too. using a ec meter, i'll have a much better idea of what they're getting as far as nutes.

it seems like once things go awry, it's really hard to get them back on their feet, so thank you so much for chiming in!

here is a picture of my clones...they will benefit from this help...

 

[KidGrow420]

yes...definitely ph problems. i found my original post and it does have a bit more information so i'll c&p here...

since i went off the rails, i haven't been able to get back on! i've kept them alive, but just barely.

last week i got a blue lab ec pen and tried feeding them an ec of 1.0 a few days ago, but no improvement.

i have 9 clones from these plants. 6 are about 2 1/2 weeks old, 5 are just one week old. they are all doing great. i've got the clones in the grow room under the led lights (got the broken one fixed) and i have the 4 plants in the tent under the 400 watt cmh light.

i was going to just throw the plants away and focus on the clones, but what i would really like to do is trouble shoot the 4 sick plants to try and fix them and apply what i learn to the 9 clones so i come out of this with more knowledge and some happy plants!

i've been thinking that maybe i could save them by giving them a good flush and a light dose of nutes, but i'm not sure.

and it is so confusing about the ph! some say in veg a ph of 5.5-6.0, but it would seem that would lock out calcium. and some say an ec of 1.0 is necessary, but others say an ec of .8 is better.

anyway, here i am determined to learn...

No. Your confusing hydro grows with soil.. The ph in hydro should be in the range of 5.5 -6.5 soil grows are supposed to be 6.2 -7.5 (but 6.2 is best) If you listen to what I said your garden will be saved. If not. That's all I can do for ya. Hope it all works out. You have WAY more then just ph problems there my friend. I explained some of them to you.

 

[KidGrow420]

wow...that is so cool...just to have some idea of which way to go...i'll start tomorrow.

any idea how i wound up here? i'm growing organic. i had always "assumed" that my city water was a 7 and that was good...but i got a ph meter and sometimes it comes in at 7.2 or 7.5 so i've started using vinegar to bring it down to the 5.8-6.5 range. the ej nutes take the water right down to 4.3 or so...it's amazing...even if i bubble them for a couple of days.

i also got a ec meter because the blumats were confusing the feeding calculation in my mind and i think they got hungry, too. using a ec meter, i'll have a much better idea of what they're getting as far as nutes.

it seems like once things go awry, it's really hard to get them back on their feet, so thank you so much for chiming in!

here is a picture of my clones...they will benefit from this help...

After doing what I told ya let them dry out completely for up to 3-4 days. Then continue the regular feeding/watering/cal-maging lol .. This will insure your medium is cleaned, "unlocked" and your roots are sucking up the right amount of "juices".

 

[KidGrow420]

Also is that your humidity at 34%? Unless your in late flowering you do not want your humidity to drop below 44% This stunts growth tremendously. If you however set the humidity at 34% in the last 2 weeks of flowering. It help's produce bigger resin glands cause it tells the plant winter is coming fast.. The plant is already fully grown, it's only focusing on bud and resin gland growth.

 

[Papageno]

Sorry bro I gots ta agree with some of the other posts. That is a mess. pH is only the beginning. I think you are on the right path with working on the clones and starting over.

Did you attempt to lollipop those or did all your fan leaves yellow and just come off?

I know they "Can" be recovered but what you will get from those sticks will be dissatisfying. You would be better off getting some clones in there and starting over. You just have not enough space left and no fan leaves. Most of the ones you have are ruined. They are very tall and have only the amount of leaves per branch you have on a plant that its 4 inches tall.

You have such a small amount of photosynthesis happening now that you can't count on any nute program. You have to really know your stuff at this point to do anything with those.

You have some growing nodes lower down. To be honest the best thing to do, if you don't want to start over, is start over the easy way. Chop them all down to just above the lowest nodes to let those lower nodes Regrow out. But I can't see those sticks being worth it or easy to finish off. They are too tall with no leaves. Without leaves you have no chance. So I say Flush them, pH them, get the lower nodes going on a very low nute program and then chop off all the branches above the bottom 2 nodes per branch. They will totally come back and you can get something but this will take a good 4-6 weeks to get those back...by then your clones, if done right might just be better off. You will need 2 weeks probably after the flush to start getting vigorous growth out of the lower sites and then when you chop them you may take 2 more weeks to repair and regrow. And that's if you know how to do what I am explaining.

Sorry man but those sticks are just way too tall with nothing to show for it.

 

[navigator]

hmmm...you guys have given me a lot to think about! thank you all so much for chiming in.

on the one hand, i can see the wisdom in abandoning the four plants and focusing on the clones.
on the other hand, gardening is one of my favorite past times, so i see it as a bit of a challenge to see if i can save the four.

truth be told, i did not lollipop them. i just pull the leaves off that are dying because i hate to see them! i know i know...but it's tough doing this alone with no outside input except what i pull of the 'net. i kept trying different things and running into trouble and reading different sites and getting conflicting information, so that's why i came here. growing cannabis is something that i want to do well for me and my family. i'm a firm believer in its health benefits and i have family that needs it.

this made me smile, you are correct:

Sorry man but those sticks are just way too tall with nothing to show for it.

thank you for the guidance, one and all!!

 

[Papageno]

Hey man I am serious those can be brought back of you are wanting to take the time and learn. They actually will look like supper cropped plants and have a huge yield....but it will take time, patients, and a very slow nute program for a while.

They probably yellowed from pH and or nute issues. But the stalks and flowers do not do photosynthesis in any meaningful way. Without the solar panels of the fan leaves nothing will happen and the plant will keep stretching trying to find light.

The issue is nutes are not food. The light is the food. The nutes are supporting the photosynthesis process. If you have more leaves you need more nutes. When you start yanking off leaves then you have to drop your nutes or the remaining will burn. You have so little photosynthesis happening now that you want very low levels.

There is a lot out there about rejuvenating plants. Plants can be turned from bloom back into veg and regrown after harvest and rebloomed.

If you want to bring these back start a journal and we can walk you through it. But if time to harvest is your thing then getting your clones in there is the right thing to do.

 

[navigator]

Hey man I am serious those can be brought back of you are wanting to take the time and learn. They actually will look like supper cropped plants and have a huge yield....but it will take time, patients, and a very slow nute program for a while.

They probably yellowed from pH and or nute issues. But the stalks and flowers do not do photosynthesis in any meaningful way. Without the solar panels of the fan leaves nothing will happen and the plant will keep stretching trying to find light.

The issue is nutes are not food. The light is the food. The nutes are supporting the photosynthesis process. If you have more leaves you need more nutes. When you start yanking off leaves then you have to drop your nutes or the remaining will burn. You have so little photosynthesis happening now that you want very low levels.

There is a lot out there about rejuvenating plants. Plants can be turned from bloom back into veg and regrown after harvest and rebloomed.

If you want to bring these back start a journal and we can walk you through it. But if time to harvest is your thing then getting your clones in there is the right thing to do.

ok...i gave myself a day to think about my plants and this is what i would like to do:

i want to save these 4 plants - or maybe just 3 of them - one is very sativa-ish (tall and lanky) - so if i don't have room for all 4, i would be happy to work on just 3. i think i would keep them in the tent.

and i want to flower my clones for harvest in my little grow room. i have 11, but don't have to flower all of them if i don't have room. i need the harvest.

i've never raised clones before, so that's a whole new thing for me, too, and i have questions about how to proceed.

does this sound plausible to you guys? and should i start two journals - one for the clones and one for the plants? or combine them?

this is exciting after all the stress of watching them try to die on me!

 

[Papageno]

I am a bit confused about you saying you want to flower your clones in a different space.

If you are growing in 2 spaces do 2 journals. If you are growing in 1 do 1.

Growing clones (after they have rooted) is no different than growing from seed really. Same rules apply, keep the pH correct and don't over dose the nutes. You will want to grow them to a decent height before flowering them.

And just so we are clear...

When you bloom and do it effectively the plants will double in size some times triple. So if you don't chop those back you will have a tree in your tent above the light getting stressed and possibly turning hermaphroditic on you. Also based on the photos you will have a bunch of small buds at those lower sights and a few medium sized kolas near the tops...but not much overall yield compared to what you could have done.

If we chop them back to a reasonable height in a way that most assuredly would stunt...but does not kill the plants they will rebound. The nodes that right now would yield baby flowers will grow out with nice leaves and be capable of supporting many good flowers.

All of this rebound and healing we want done before we go to bloom.

The best way would be to get them back on track right now. Get those lower nodes growing healthy and then start taking back the tops as the lower nodes start looking good. If we just chop them in half without a good rebound started we may shock it to death.

So lets get the lower nodes healthy with some good growth happening. Get that darn pH figured out and then lets try some Elanor's VF-11 for a nute. It is a fantastic all around single bottle nute that they say will not burn. I think that is hog wash but the fact is the nutes are very very good and complete. I have grown some real cool DWC on them. I don't know where you live but I can get that stuff at Home Depot, Walmart, Fred Meyers, Walgreens.

As for the clones...there has to be a ton of sticky posts on here about that.

 

[navigator]

alrighty then! here we go with the journals!

and thank you, VI, for your very valuable help...