DRM Ranch
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I suppose beyond doing a drain to waste and collecting the runoff and sending said runoff to a lab for inspection, how do you perfect your nutrient mix at each stage of growth?
How are you dialing in nutrients in your hydro grow?
I just use a simple ppm measurement, watch my plants, and experience. How do you do it? 
rillos
Well-Known Member
I use lucas formula with GH nutes and I make sure my runoff PH is between 5.5-6.5.
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- #4
DRM Ranch
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I just use a simple ppm measurement, watch my plants, and experience. How do you do it?
I'm on my first personal grow so I only have a plan on what I will do.
I do help out at a grow where dialing in is based on lots of notes and observation with a dash of trial and error. Mainly; ppm/pH in, ppm/pH out, nutrient formula, watering schedule, etc. From my understanding ppm adjustments are made based on the change in ppm's as measured on the drain side but I'm not exactly sure the result is perfect or working.
I'm using Dyna Gro, at half the suggested nutrient concentration. I started in coco/peat plugs and do not like that method, I experienced less than stellar rooting in one out of the six clones and sadly total failure to root in two. I'll be using rockwool plugs next time.
That is basically how I do it. I might have made a note of how I did it in my first journal (in my sig) but I'm not sure. Keeping notes is important in hydro IMHO. Especially if you don't have a lot of experience with the strain.
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- #6
DRM Ranch
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I'm not sure at the moment that I will get spectacular results from any dialing in for the next few grows, I don't yet have absolute control of my grow room environment.
I need to be able to manage temps and humidity which is something I simply don't have the money to fix right now.
I do however have the ability to take pretty anal notes, pictures, readings of both pH, PPM, even temps. I don't have a trusty hygrometer or two just yet.
My surviving plants are doing OK as of right now, the four rooted plants are now in 3"x3"x2.5" rockwool blocks and showing the beginnings of roots on the sides and bottom of the blocks so all is not lost on this batch. However I have a feeling they should be farther along than they are.
I kind of feel that putting much effort toward dialing these ladies in is going to result in bad data. I'd like to have my nutrient schedule nailed to a weekly schedule. My current plan covers twentyone weeks, ten and a half for veg and flower.
In my mind it'll take at least twentyone grows of the same strain to really nail down a good grow. The thought process goes something like this; take a group of plants (same strain same size cuts) start them in an identical manner, once a group of these root similarly enough to be considered comparable feed each a differing nutrient blend, a week later identify which responded best, that plants nutrient blend is week ones dial in. Grow out the plants any way you see fit. On grow two all the similar plants get the dialed in nutrients for week one, on week two each gets a different and unique mixture, the plant with the best results is dialed in. Grow out the plants any way you like. The process continues until you reach the harvest obvious week.
My reasoning is that you can't effectively dial in week six if weeks one through five aren't perfect. However one could, after dialing in an entire grow work backwards in an effort to further refine things knowing a solid foundation is in place to work on but I don't really like that idea much at all.
It's all a bit overwhelming right now.
I need to be able to manage temps and humidity which is something I simply don't have the money to fix right now.
I do however have the ability to take pretty anal notes, pictures, readings of both pH, PPM, even temps. I don't have a trusty hygrometer or two just yet.
My surviving plants are doing OK as of right now, the four rooted plants are now in 3"x3"x2.5" rockwool blocks and showing the beginnings of roots on the sides and bottom of the blocks so all is not lost on this batch. However I have a feeling they should be farther along than they are.
I kind of feel that putting much effort toward dialing these ladies in is going to result in bad data. I'd like to have my nutrient schedule nailed to a weekly schedule. My current plan covers twentyone weeks, ten and a half for veg and flower.
In my mind it'll take at least twentyone grows of the same strain to really nail down a good grow. The thought process goes something like this; take a group of plants (same strain same size cuts) start them in an identical manner, once a group of these root similarly enough to be considered comparable feed each a differing nutrient blend, a week later identify which responded best, that plants nutrient blend is week ones dial in. Grow out the plants any way you see fit. On grow two all the similar plants get the dialed in nutrients for week one, on week two each gets a different and unique mixture, the plant with the best results is dialed in. Grow out the plants any way you like. The process continues until you reach the harvest obvious week.
My reasoning is that you can't effectively dial in week six if weeks one through five aren't perfect. However one could, after dialing in an entire grow work backwards in an effort to further refine things knowing a solid foundation is in place to work on but I don't really like that idea much at all.
It's all a bit overwhelming right now.
Well just my 2 cents.
When the environment changes all that nice data goes out the window. The nute uptake is a function of many things. Even if you could keep them all stable you wouldn't want to. I guarantee that you will be learning with each grow and making changes with each grow. So even if you did nothing to the nute program you probably would see improvements each time. Especially if you know you have a bad setup now and plan to upgrade.
For example you say you have bad ventilation. There are things you can do to compensate which you will try. They will be sort of effective. But in the end the plant is a bit stressed and not growing optimally. Then next grow you spend the $100 for a good fan and get the temps right but now your RH is off. The nute uptake will be different and the notes you took from last time are not 100% accurate for you now. Then your next grow you get a fan just for the hood and the temps drop and you vent fan is setup slower to manage RH. You can place the light closer to the plants. The nute uptake is different because they are growing faster.
Not trying to discourage you. And PLEASE take all the notes, it will really help. The most important thing however is to know what healthy plants look like and just keep monitoring your grow. If you don't know the problem take a pic and ask here.
The biggest mistake I see people do on here is think something they changed about this grow is why they had improved results and they never consider the 20 things they didn't fuck up this time. Experience is by far the single most important factor.
I really like your approach though. Just understand strains can act very differently. So as soon as you nail it and switch to something else none of that math matters. It will be close and you must fall back on experience again and listen to what the plants are saying to you.
Best of luck!!!
When the environment changes all that nice data goes out the window. The nute uptake is a function of many things. Even if you could keep them all stable you wouldn't want to. I guarantee that you will be learning with each grow and making changes with each grow. So even if you did nothing to the nute program you probably would see improvements each time. Especially if you know you have a bad setup now and plan to upgrade.
For example you say you have bad ventilation. There are things you can do to compensate which you will try. They will be sort of effective. But in the end the plant is a bit stressed and not growing optimally. Then next grow you spend the $100 for a good fan and get the temps right but now your RH is off. The nute uptake will be different and the notes you took from last time are not 100% accurate for you now. Then your next grow you get a fan just for the hood and the temps drop and you vent fan is setup slower to manage RH. You can place the light closer to the plants. The nute uptake is different because they are growing faster.
Not trying to discourage you. And PLEASE take all the notes, it will really help. The most important thing however is to know what healthy plants look like and just keep monitoring your grow. If you don't know the problem take a pic and ask here.
The biggest mistake I see people do on here is think something they changed about this grow is why they had improved results and they never consider the 20 things they didn't fuck up this time. Experience is by far the single most important factor.
I really like your approach though. Just understand strains can act very differently. So as soon as you nail it and switch to something else none of that math matters. It will be close and you must fall back on experience again and listen to what the plants are saying to you.
Best of luck!!!
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- #8
DRM Ranch
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^^^Exactly^^^
I do have whole room air exchange under control at 1 air exchange per minute via a properly sized can fan and ducting, that was easy and the design incorporates the ability to add a lung room space in the future for temp and humidity control and perhaps full recirculation if I decide to go with CO2 down the road (most equipment being located in the lung room).
I'm addressing air quality in my grow space with a box fan and 24"x24" HVAC disposable home filter rated for allergen removal. I've used this setup in rooms where air quality is really important but doesn't quite justify a full on HEPA filtration system. My reasoning for this is to reduce the potential for mold/mildue spores in the grow space. I'm similarly filtering the intake air, label me paranoid, but I figure prevention is less costly than curing powdery mildue and any of the various molds that might cause me frustration down the road.
I'm coming from a background that involves rearing reptiles that have very specific environmental needs so I know how to control heat and humidity pretty well, its just a matter of funding and I'll get that done.
I certainly want to recognize that temps, humidity, air exchange, CO2 PPM (or is that PPB?) are factors that need to be accounted for, which is why I feel a bit overwhelmed.
I'm 100% sure a single slip up will skew any efforts at dialing in a strain and that reading plants is a skill I'm not in possession of just yet.
I do have whole room air exchange under control at 1 air exchange per minute via a properly sized can fan and ducting, that was easy and the design incorporates the ability to add a lung room space in the future for temp and humidity control and perhaps full recirculation if I decide to go with CO2 down the road (most equipment being located in the lung room).
I'm addressing air quality in my grow space with a box fan and 24"x24" HVAC disposable home filter rated for allergen removal. I've used this setup in rooms where air quality is really important but doesn't quite justify a full on HEPA filtration system. My reasoning for this is to reduce the potential for mold/mildue spores in the grow space. I'm similarly filtering the intake air, label me paranoid, but I figure prevention is less costly than curing powdery mildue and any of the various molds that might cause me frustration down the road.
I'm coming from a background that involves rearing reptiles that have very specific environmental needs so I know how to control heat and humidity pretty well, its just a matter of funding and I'll get that done.
I certainly want to recognize that temps, humidity, air exchange, CO2 PPM (or is that PPB?) are factors that need to be accounted for, which is why I feel a bit overwhelmed.
I'm 100% sure a single slip up will skew any efforts at dialing in a strain and that reading plants is a skill I'm not in possession of just yet.
Growing weed is supper simple and you already just noted a handful of things a lot of experienced growers do not understand (CO2 should be recirculated...). All you need is a camera and a computer. You can post here anything that looks odd and we will help ya out.
I recommend growing in soil until you know what healthy plants look like or more importantly what deficiencies looks like but that is just my recommendation and I am just an idiot pot head.
Even if you go with Hydro try a simple single bucket DWC to begin with as you really almost have to be retarded to screw that up. I think I could teach most tards to do that correctly actually. You can always upgrade down the road but why spend 2 grand on expensive equipment when you are learning and are not going to be able to take advantage of it. Its like giving a 16 year old a Corvette. All he is going to do is spend a lot of money on insurance and gas and then crash it into a tree.
The only thing that really matters is understanding what an unhealthy plant looks like in time to respond.
If you plan to grow for yourself then I would not recommend even thinking about CO2. to utilize it correctly is fairly expensive and you need to really know what you are doing. Most people add it incorrectly and are just flushing away money. You really need to be growing large scale for the cost benefit ration to make sense.
Start a journal then bump this or PM me and I will help. I think you have a lot more tools in your tool box than you realize already. You do not sound like a lot of beginners on here. You could get good smoke your first run.
I recommend growing in soil until you know what healthy plants look like or more importantly what deficiencies looks like but that is just my recommendation and I am just an idiot pot head.
Even if you go with Hydro try a simple single bucket DWC to begin with as you really almost have to be retarded to screw that up. I think I could teach most tards to do that correctly actually. You can always upgrade down the road but why spend 2 grand on expensive equipment when you are learning and are not going to be able to take advantage of it. Its like giving a 16 year old a Corvette. All he is going to do is spend a lot of money on insurance and gas and then crash it into a tree.
The only thing that really matters is understanding what an unhealthy plant looks like in time to respond.
If you plan to grow for yourself then I would not recommend even thinking about CO2. to utilize it correctly is fairly expensive and you need to really know what you are doing. Most people add it incorrectly and are just flushing away money. You really need to be growing large scale for the cost benefit ration to make sense.
Start a journal then bump this or PM me and I will help. I think you have a lot more tools in your tool box than you realize already. You do not sound like a lot of beginners on here. You could get good smoke your first run.
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- #10
DRM Ranch
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I'm going with hydro in rockwool cubes, ultimately transitioning to recirculating hydro. I'll be using some LST and playing with FIM and topping too.
I help at a small grow regularly (4k in flower, 1.6k in veg) so I am getting better at seeing what looks right and what doesn't. It's very much different being able to get right up close with a variety of plants at different stages of life than trying to get that same experience via the internet.
What I am noticing is that even with experience its sometimes difficult to really drill down on an issue. Especially when there are factors that are out of ones control.
I need to get caught up on my journal, I do have one started.
I help at a small grow regularly (4k in flower, 1.6k in veg) so I am getting better at seeing what looks right and what doesn't. It's very much different being able to get right up close with a variety of plants at different stages of life than trying to get that same experience via the internet.
What I am noticing is that even with experience its sometimes difficult to really drill down on an issue. Especially when there are factors that are out of ones control.
I need to get caught up on my journal, I do have one started.
I use the DynaGro line in hempy buckets. I ALWAYS need to supplement Calcium. Be sure to have some CalMag on hand.
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DRM Ranch
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I've considered that from the start, I have GH calmag available to me but have not seen a need to use it just yet.
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DRM Ranch
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Double post
I'm surprised. Meh. Different strains... different worlds... different needs. Keep a tight eye out for Cal def.
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DRM Ranch
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Perhaps it would be a good idea to induce deficits in certain nutrients to more clearly identify how the lack of any particular nutrient effects a plant.
I suspect what most people identify as a calcium deficit is actually an insufficient quantity of sulfur, particularly in mixtures that add all kinds of supplements. I could be way off base but my research and observations seem to support this assumption.
My worry is such that deficiency of any nutrient is evidenced by a number of similar presentations. Late stage K deficiency looks very similar to later stage Mn deficiency combined with moderate Fe deficiency.
I think I'm not seeing issues because I'm not adding extras which alter the nutrient balance that my choice of nutrient manufacturing company believed was good to go. I picked Dyna Gro because there system is a little less complex and seems to match cannabis nutrient needs pretty well if used in moderation.
We shall see, now to see if I can mix up a zero calcium nutrient batch....(
)You should be smoking weed not CRACK!!!!
NO do not stunt or hurt you production just to learn something you can find online or even better in Ed's book, which everyone should buy and read 5 times!!!! Grow the plants as best as you can and when you see anything not perfect you can google image search and find it. Find 4 or more posts that look the same with the same diagnosis because yes there is a lot of garbage out there.
No one here will recommend that you should stunt your plants for the chance to learn something.
Man back when I started the only thing you could do was go to a bookstore and buy a book. What the heck happened to reading? This is something I guarantee you will enjoy reading about. This isn't the Scarlet Letter. Go get Ed's book and your quality will skyrocket. And you will have on hand all the info you need to diagnose anything. If you only use the internet then you must admit, at least to yourself, your are being lazy. Reading about growing weed from the man is incredible.
But even if you don't care to read about weed then you can be so lazy as to just post here and we will help. But please please please do not wastes all your time and money learning something so many have accidentally learned because they refused to go to a book store.
Sorry to rant...I had a bad day.
NO do not stunt or hurt you production just to learn something you can find online or even better in Ed's book, which everyone should buy and read 5 times!!!! Grow the plants as best as you can and when you see anything not perfect you can google image search and find it. Find 4 or more posts that look the same with the same diagnosis because yes there is a lot of garbage out there.
No one here will recommend that you should stunt your plants for the chance to learn something.
Man back when I started the only thing you could do was go to a bookstore and buy a book. What the heck happened to reading? This is something I guarantee you will enjoy reading about. This isn't the Scarlet Letter. Go get Ed's book and your quality will skyrocket. And you will have on hand all the info you need to diagnose anything. If you only use the internet then you must admit, at least to yourself, your are being lazy. Reading about growing weed from the man is incredible.
But even if you don't care to read about weed then you can be so lazy as to just post here and we will help. But please please please do not wastes all your time and money learning something so many have accidentally learned because they refused to go to a book store.
Sorry to rant...I had a bad day.
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- #17
DRM Ranch
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LOL, I have a couple books (actual paper things with ink and glue), and they say stuff about cannabis. One even has color pictures and photographs.
As for smoking crack, naw, I can't get on board with that any more than smoking cannabis. I'm an edibles kind of guy. Smoking bud just isn't a pleasing experience for me. To each his own.
As for inducing a deficiency, while I was speaking somewhat in jest, there is nothing quite like knowing exactly how a strain will react. As stated, I use edibles so a single plant worth of bud and trim is going to keep me in cookies for the better part of two years, I can play around with extras for the sake of science with zero worries of running short on supplies of buds.
I do hope your day improved, in any case your reply made me smile and giggle a tiny bit, I'm chill and really just trying to have an enjoyable time growing and learning about cannabis in a way that keeps me interested.
As for smoking crack, naw, I can't get on board with that any more than smoking cannabis. I'm an edibles kind of guy. Smoking bud just isn't a pleasing experience for me. To each his own.
As for inducing a deficiency, while I was speaking somewhat in jest, there is nothing quite like knowing exactly how a strain will react. As stated, I use edibles so a single plant worth of bud and trim is going to keep me in cookies for the better part of two years, I can play around with extras for the sake of science with zero worries of running short on supplies of buds.
I do hope your day improved, in any case your reply made me smile and giggle a tiny bit, I'm chill and really just trying to have an enjoyable time growing and learning about cannabis in a way that keeps me interested.
I have a friend that's allergic. Poor guy.
I can certainly see why one prefers to avoid the smoking/vaping/whatever experience. My wife has tried a couple of times and can't get into it either... yet she's chosen me. It's obviously not for all.
Curious tho... if you (God forbid!) came down with cancer and found you wanted the extra help during the chemo dance, would you? Please pardon the personal noseyness.
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- #19
DRM Ranch
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I'm not sure I would go the smoking route, it simply isn't comfortable to me. I can vape, and dabs are OK, but I simply prefer to take my meds as edibles. Edibles help my pain and get me to sleep quickly, for that I am thankful.
No worries about being personal, I don't mind.
As a tobacco smoker, I've just not been one bit shy of smoking as a intake method. Love my vaporizer tho... mighty nice not to go outside to burn a bowl when it's chilly... like this morning.
I supply a med user/neighboor. She cooks it down and occasionally passes me a cookie!
Thanks for your feedback!
I supply a med user/neighboor. She cooks it down and occasionally passes me a cookie!
Thanks for your feedback!
