HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDED*

[wtfruthinking]

Strain - Kona Gold Hawaiian- Sativa
# of Plants - 6
Grow Type - Hydro
Grow Stage - Flower (estimated time to harvest in 2 wks)
Setup - drip
Light - 600 Watt HPS
Nutrients - General Hydronponics
Medium - Grodan Rockwool
PPM - 1300
PH - 5.5
RH - 45% to 50%
Room Temperature -65 to 73
Room Square Footage - 10x10
Pests - Unable to detect with naked eye or magnifying glass

PROBLEM: There are several issues that are occurring with both the flowering and veg rooms. 2 weeks before harvest and I'm not sure what to do or where to even begin. Signs begin in the Veg room but at one point the humidity level was hard to control and was only at 20%. I assumed that was the issue when these signs occurred. I have since corrected the humidity level and the problem is still occurring. It seems to slowly spread. Is this a nute lockout, pest, disease. Since I'm so close to harvest I'm not sure what the heck to do... What about my veg room? 1 leaf in the veg room started to show signs so I cut it off.

SIGNS: (sorry for the millions of pictures but i figured the more the better)

1. Leaves curl and dries to a crisp
2. Red/Orange spots
3. Yellowing occurs around the edges of the leaves

I'm having a yellowing of my leaves with a dotting effect that continually gets worse until the leaf dies. No signs of pests

Flowering area is 20ft away from the veg area. Because I'm so close to harvesting I'm not sure what to do since I don't know what the problem is. Any suggestions or opinions would be greatly appreciated



THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ MY POST and OFFERING YOUR ADVICE..

 

[Velodrone]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

Well, it could be that the plant is taking what it needs from the leaves to finish. Or a Mg def maybe. What does the top growth look like?

 

[wtfruthinking]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

Here are some additional photos showing more of the overall plant.

 

[Bandit420]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

These plants look like they are suffering from either a toxic build up of salts or a ph lockup which are both common with GH nutes and /or rockwool.
It looks like the plants have defincies in Potassium, magnesium,zinc, and manganese. 5.5 may be a bit too low for GH preventing these three nutes from being taken up.

Was the rockwool pretreated to set the PH prior to using?

 

[wtfruthinking]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

Thanks for stopping by Orange-- 2 wks is the scheduled time for harvest.. Should I be flushing now?? Once I flush - should I start back up on the regular feeding cycle or slowly build back up to it. How do I correct the Potassium, Magnesium, and Manganese issue??

 

[Retired One]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

It gives the appearance of a cal/mag problem, but if you're only two weeks from finishing, the appearance could be made worse by the natural dying off of the leaves.

The buds look pretty damn good to me, with evident new growth and swell.

What type of water are you using...i.e. tap, distilled, R/O?

If you're use distilled or R/O, you need to be adding a cal/mag sustitute to head this problem off in your veg area...get on top of it now, and there will be no real damage.

 

[wtfruthinking]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

Thanks for stopping by Southern!

Using same ole' tap water with chlorine drops.. Used the same water for previous grows and didn't have an issue. Never had issues w/ cal/mag before. What is the best method of correcting cal/mag?

 

[Retired One]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

By adding a cal/mag substitue available online or at any hydro shop. Your PH is right at the very bottom of "optimum" range, you may try letting it ease up to 5.8 or so to see if any improvement shows.

Your plants close to finishing are fine...two weeks out, you got what you got. Get on top of the problem on the veg side to keep it from becoming an ongoing problem.

 

[Roseman]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

A good rule of thumb to remember, When leaf curls DOWN, it is getting too much food.
When a leaf curls UP, it is not eating or consuming what it is being fed. So that is my first guess. Your leaf pics are not showing nute burn, the yellowing did not just start on the tips. The SPOTs are the biggest clue, next to your statement that the pH is 5.5.

2nd, I found a pic, identical to your leaf pic and it said (this is a copy and paste):

Leaf Curling Up Combined with Spotting - Leaf curling up can be a sign of a Magnesium (Mg) deficiency caused by too low of a pH level. Magnesium deficiency will show as a yellowing (which may turn brown and crispy) and interveinal (in between the veins) yellowing beginning in the older leaves. Interveinal chlorosis (yellowing) will start at the leaf tip and progressing inward between the veins. It could also be a sign of excess heat and humidity in the grow room.

Your Heat and Humidity is OK.

I also see some leaves that are large enough for me to assume they are FAN leaves. Those yellowing and cripsy FAN leaves are what most growers call normal and natural due to being in Flowering, although I say it is because of a low level of Nitrogen in the Flowering Nutes.

Friend, I've been on grow sites 4 years now, and I've seen this so many times, I am confident of what the problem is and what you need to do.

You got nute lock, or nutritional lock-out.

Imagine I sit a plate of a hotdog, a hamburger, and a slice of pizza (my grandson's favorite meal,) in front of my very hungry grandson. Next to the hotdog, hamburger and pizza is a large serving of brussel sprouts and I tell him to eat the brussel sprouts first before he can have his other favorites . And he says "if I got to eat that crap, then I am NOT eating"! That is nutritional lockout, when the plant says I CAN HAVE WHAT I WANT SO I AM NOT EATING!

Plants eat different nutrients at different pH levels. I could show you two charts from two sources that say a plant will not eat Mg unless the pH is at 5.8 to 5.9 at the lowest. Lower than 5.8, your plant is not eating ANY Mg and thus the spots, yellowing and dieing of leaves that ought to not be dieing yet.

You could add some Cal-Mag, but that would not be the real fix. If you are having Nute Lock, the plant won't eat the extra MG since it wasn't eating it anyway.

The LOCKOUT will also cause other deficiencies to appear too.

The real fix is a Drain and Replenish, use 3/4 the normal feeding amount for the first day, and adjust the pH to stay closer to an average of 5.9 and 6.0, allowing it to go from 5.5 to 6.9 as it wills, then bring it back to 6.0 once a day.

Plant Abuse Chart

I just posted the same thing ten minutes ago, at your other thread.

 

[Roseman]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

 

[wtfruthinking]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

And just like they said...Roseman would know. I can not begin to express how thankful I am. Your answer is clear and to the point. Point taken. Lesson well learned! I had no idea that different ph levels would lock out certain nutrients. Your rule of thumb is simple and easy to remember. You've put things into perspective for me. I am flushing the veg room today. Flowering room- So it is okay to flush when I'm 2wks away from harvest or leave it alone? I've also printed out your chart which I will follow closely from now on. Thank you Roseman. This forum is truly a great site w/ the greatest people.

 

[Roseman]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

You're very welcomed. I think the other responders (I just now read their answers) they were all right.
Southern Weed said pH and deficiency of Mag. oragneblood and velodrone hit it right on the head too. When a plant doesn't eat, those Undisolved Solids or Salts can cause havoc.

We often want to treat a deficiency by adding more nutes. Fact is, almost all nutes already have enough of everything in them and we ened to look for a deeper cause for the deficiency.

God Bless.

 

[Roseman]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

I do a weekly drain and replenish, no matter what cycle or week I am in. It is very important for successful growing, for me, especially if you use a small reservoir. It doesn't apply as much to LARGE reservoirs over 8 or 10 gallons. I do think it is possibly part of your problem, in addition to the pH causing LockOut..

I want to share something with you about TOPPING OFF the water (replacing back the consumed water) instead of draining and replenishing. Being a stoner and being old too, I had to read it 100 times to be able to absorb it and put it in my own words, so even I would understand it. I am going to copy and paste it it from my Tutorial.

Weekly Drain and Replinish

Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir

I have tried to not use scientific terms or even get very technical, but I might have to, to explain something that needs explaining here. I really do own 14 books on Hydroponic Indoor Growing. And I have studied them too. Some of the books were written simply, and some are difficult for me to comprehend and even more difficult for me to explain. They all vary a little on the perfect pH level, and they all vary on LIGHTING, some books were written way before CFLs were sold, or when CFLs were new on the scene. But they all agree on Topping Off the tank and Draining and Replenishing the water and nutrients.

To address this, I am going to post it twice to be sure I explain it. You will need to read both explanations.

After the nutes are added to the tank and the pH is balanced, the plants start eating, consuming the food. Logically, the larger the tank, the more water there is, and the more nutes you need. Logically, the larger the plants, the more they will eat from the tank. Logically, the more plants that are in the tank, the more they will eat. And logically, the more they eat, the more nutes that you need in the tank. The amount of nutes provided is in relationship to the amount of water, NOT the amount of plants. It is the Ratio or Proportion in the water that is important. The amount of nutes added to the tank are measured by we commonly call a PPM Meter, PPM meaning parts per million.

The Instructions on the nutrients contain the proper amount of nutes to add to the water, usually determined by "per gallon", and not by "per plant" or "size of plants". In the beginning, we start with 1/4 dose of nutrients, because a full dose is meant for full grown plants. If we use a ppm meter, we seek a ppm of 150 to 250 ppms above the ppm of the water, on average for small young sprouts, it varies from nutrient to nutrient. As the plants grow, we then slowly and gradually increase the nutrients fed to them, and consequently we increase the ppm. By the time the plants are over a foot tall, we will be in the neighborhood of a ppm of 600, then 800 on up to 1200 ppm. Some growers risk even higher ppms, watching the leaves tips for yellowing, to know when to back off with feedings. And as we add more food, the plants grow and eat more, indicated by them also drinking more water. As a rule of thumb, we figure if they drank half of the water, they then must of ate half the food. That is close to being right, but not precisely. If the grow room was exceptionly HOT, they can drink more water without eating more food. And consequently, some days, they eat more, some days they eat less, regardless of the amount of the water missing.

As they eat, they do not eat all of the delivered nutes at the same rate, or same proportion, and that changes the pH and the ppm. It also changes what they call the RNC, or RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. That CHANGE is not easy to calculate or measure, like the ppm or pH is easy to measure.
When the nutrients are first introduced or added, the RNC is perfect, or properly proportioned. In other words, there are specific amounts or precise amounts of each needed nutrient. The exact amount of needed Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potash, also commonly called Potassium are present and available for food for the plants.

BUT, as the plants eat, they do not eat all of the nutrients in a perfect proportion or at a perfect rate or equal rate. Some days, they want what grows longer roots, some days, they want what makes more leaves. The plants actually nibble at some nutrients in the mix each day, and gobble down some others. Some of the nutrients are not hardly eaten at all, some are absorbed very quickly. This creates an IMBALANCE of the mix. If you add more water and nutes daily to replace the eaten nutes, (CALLED TOPPING OFF) the IMBALANCE INCREASES. If you only add plain water daily, again, Top It Off, you still get the imbalance. AND the nutes not eaten, or the nutes that are increased daily cause a build up of nutes, and that creates a BAD imbalance of the RNC.
When this happens, the water becomes TOXIC and unusable even tho the ppm meter says there is a proper amount of nutrients. The plants say I AM NOT HAPPY WITH THE BUFFET and like a spoiled child unhappy at the dinner table, they suddenly refuse to eat anything. This is called NUTRITIONAL LOCKOUT. This happens even tho the ppm meter says there are plenty of parts per million of nutes in the water. The ppm meter does not indicate if the nutrients are balanced or at a toxic level. It just indicates there is plenty of food on the table.

THIS IS WHY WE MUST WEEKLY DUMP IT ALL AND START ALL OVER.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST DRAIN AND REPLENISH WEEKLY, regardless of whether we TOP OFF with plain water, or TOP OFF with water and a fractional dose of nutes.
Changing the water weekly maintains the proper RNC.

 

[Roseman]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

Same tune, different words.

Weekly Drain and Replinish

Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir


Daily Maintenance of the reservoir is mostly keeping the pH at the proper level, and keeping the same level of water in the tank as it is used or evaporates. It is also keeping the nutrient mix or nutrient solution at a proper level, a level that is NOT toxic or too strong.
In the day to day course of maintaining the tank two problems occur. Remember how we discussed ppm, parts per million? Then we discussed RNC, RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. Well, we also need to discuss TDS, Total Disolved Salts. (Some books say Total Disolved Solids, for some reason unknown to me) As the water evaporates or is consumed, the concentration of TDS becomes stronger, to the point of being Toxic. The TDS increase as the amount of water decreases. This creates the need to replenish the water, to replace the water, to "top off". As we replace that missing water, we create an IMBALANCE. Hydroponic grown plants eat what they need, as they need it, and they leave some nutes to build up and accumalate into a posionious or toxic level.
This creates the need to daily TOP IT OFF. (to put a cut on it) I have already discussed starting Feedings and Draining and Replenishing in this thread twice. It is simple enough, daily replace what you estimate is gone, consumed, eaten, and absorbed.

But weekly, you need to clear the buffet table and start all over with fresh foods. This gives the plant not only a well balanced buffet table to eat from, but also supplies it with FRESH Food that has not been altered by the plants being picky and choosey.


And, there is the Growth Spurt you will get during the Drain, as the roots get a 5 to 15 mintues air bath. It also gives you the opportunity to look for crimped air hoses, scrub the air stones clean and look for debris and trash in the tank that messes with the pH balance.

Also, as the water ages, undesirable harmful microbes appear and grow in the water. You also take the chance of insect larvae and algae appearing, and weekly draining the tank helps prevent those problems too.

 

[wtfruthinking]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE



I am pooped today! Again, thank you for sharing your experience, wisdom and time. I just flushed the veg room and now flushing with ph water. I was hoping I wouldn't have to do the flowering room but after reading your post.. I know I must. It's the right thing to do. I have 120 gal to flush and know it's going to take forever!!!! I've learned soo much today and can't tell you how resourceful you've been. To Everyone... Thank you for your input. Must go save plants now.

P.S. I'm almost done with constructing the "Roseman's DIY Odor Control Bucket" I've been jumping back and forth between projects so it's taking me a little longer than expected.

DIY Odor Control Bucket

***Off the topic question- Any Sativa strands that you would recommend growing hydro?? I love White Widow but the strand is too difficult to maintain. I learned the hard way half way through that she only likes half strength nutes..

 

[wtfruthinking]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

One more thing... No more topping off for me!

 

[Roseman]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

Sorry, but I can't think of any suggestions for growing sativa. I draw a blank.

 

[wtfruthinking]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

How long would you recommend to flush? Should I keep it on the same feeding schedule to flush?

 

[Caddie]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

Goodness Roseman, that was one informational post. Just outstanding. I would love to know your thoughts on using soil. My plants have a lot of the same symptoms of the OP, but I've been growing in soil and have been meticulous about the ph of the water (6.5).

I started out lower (around 6.2), then moved up to 6.5. After reading your posts, I think I'm going to flush like crazy using 6.7 R/O water.

Fantastic posts!

Thanks.

 

[wtfruthinking]

Re: HELPP Save Ready 2 Harvest**MULT SIGNS**DISEASE OR PESTS? *EXPERTS OPINIONS NEEDE

ROSEMAN IS THE MAN! Finished the Odor Control bucket.. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. It took maybe 15 minutes to make... Damn thing works like a charm.. Roseman is the mang to go for anything. He's a walking encyclopedia! Started the flush in both rooms. Keeping my fingers crossed. Flushed with PH 6.4