Help with identifying problem

[jebivetr]

Hello guys,

I have 9 plants and 4 of them are starting to show mosaic pattern and on one of them the tips are starting to show burn sings and other spots on leaves they are 3,5 week old and that is including first week when they were germinating so 2,5 weeks if i dont count first week. They are all in grow mix from plagron so none of them are reciving any nutrients except power roots also from plagron. At first i wasn't too worried as i didn't grow this strain before (critical 2.0 + from Dinafem) and i just thought maybe is just plant variation.But as i said before one is starting to show a little of yellowing and some other brown/gold spots and that happened in one day all of other plants with mosaic pattern are still green and none of the leaves show any other signs than mosaic pattern. New growth on top looks fine...
I did a little search myself and it looks a lot like magnesium deficiency... but its hard to pinpoint and also wouldn't than all have same deficiency considering all grow in same dirt?

All pictures are from same plant. First picture is from yesterday all others are from today.

Any help would be appriciated.

 

[Virgin Ground]

Howdy!
Pics under regular light help a lot.
I would add cal-mag, it appears to be a mag deficiency.
Leds really make the plants use up the mag fast.

 

[jebivetr]

Hello,

yea sorry i don't know what is was thinking... apparently nothing..

H

ere is picture under normal light.

 

[jebivetr]

Hello,

Just wanted to update. I have been adding cal-mag for the last 20 days from Atami ATA Calmag and i was very careful about Ph of water.

It still looks like it has mag deficiency and its leaves are more pale green compared to others but is growing well and is about the same size as others.

 

[Barney86]

Yeah certainly looks like mag Def to me mate. Not a soil grower though so no idea how to go about fixing it.
Just out of curiosity though what is your pH? I get mag lock out in Coco whenmine goes too high. Could be something like that if it's still there

 

[jebivetr]

ph of water is 6.5 maybe i should be adding more calmag... i am adding max according to box which is 1ml per liter of water

 

[Emilya Green]

Let's dial this in a bit more... what is the pH of the final solution after adding all the calmag or nutes or whatever else to it? If that is what is 6.5, drop it down a bit more to 6.3 to get a bit better bite on the magnesium uptake. Yes, it looks like you need to add more calmag, but I suspect pH has something to do with it too... double that dosage and fine tune that pH and lets see what happens. Also, if you are adjusting down the level of nutes you are giving, I would rethink that strategy too until you see an even greening.

 

[Barney86]

Yeah id listen to Emilya mate. Chick knows her shit with the muddy stuff

 

[Barney86]

Let's dial this in a bit more... what is the pH of the final solution after adding all the calmag or nutes or whatever else to it? If that is what is 6.5, drop it down a bit more to 6.3 to get a bit better bite on the magnesium uptake. Yes, it looks like you need to add more calmag, but I suspect pH has something to do with it too... double that dosage and fine tune that pH and lets see what happens. Also, if you are adjusting down the level of nutes you are giving, I would rethink that strategy too until you see an even greening.

Just so you don't feel the need to shout at me, it was the liquid pH I was asking about, not the soil. I've learned better than that now lol. Maybe should've pointed that out but I meant well
Id say I was still technically on point, even if I did forget to specify I meant the nutes.
I'm getting there haha. I'll wrap my head round this soil malarky if it kills me

 

[Emilya Green]

Just so you don't feel the need to shout at me, it was the liquid pH I was asking about, not the soil. I've learned better than that now lol. Maybe should've pointed that out but I meant well
Id say I was still technically on point, even if I did forget to specify I meant the nutes.
I'm getting there haha. I'll wrap my head round this soil malarky if it kills me

I honestly didn't even once think that you were referring to the soil. But when I hear a specific mention that the "water" was 6.5 pH, I am reminded how many new people think that they must "balance" the water before adding nutes, and that is why I said what I did.

 

[Barney86]

I honestly didn't even once think that you were referring to the soil. But when I hear a specific mention that the "water" was 6.5 pH, I am reminded how many new people think that they must "balance" the water before adding nutes, and that is why I said what I did.

Haha was just winding you up chick.
Well spotted though. On the ball as always.
In a real funny mood just now as got some early pulled super skunk auto and glueberry kush. Weren't quite ready so both of them are mental speedy and get me in a cheeky mood lol. Wanna go out and party but it's pissing down with rain.

 

[jebivetr]

First of all thanks for help i really appreciate it
Indeed PH I was referring to is PH in final solution after all nutes. I will drop PH to 6.3 and double the calmag also all other nutes are going in as scheduled.
I will update in couple of days
Thanks again and take care

And just one more thing i just reread my original answer and i did say 'PH of water' so that was my mistake i should clarify

 

[HappyHour]

I will start with 3 questions, don't take offense to them if I'm way off, I'm just trying to help.

1) Are there holes in the bottom of the tote to allow for runoff when you water?

2) If you allow for runoff(if not you should start), have you tested the runoff ph and compared it to the ph of the water/nutes you are putting in? If there is a large ph difference, that could indicate a lot of nutrient/salts build up in your soil.

3) Are you feeding every watering? I would advise against this if you are as it can wreak havoc on the ph of your soil and quickly kill a plant.

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi @HappyHour and welcome to the forum!
Unfortunately you are a little ways off and I would like to clarify things just a little. You need to be careful when advising a soil grower to check runoff pH since it matters a great deal whether that grower is dealing with a bare wee start of a runoff, or if you check the pH at the very end of a 10% runoff or a 20% runoff, because at the various dilutions, the readings will be significantly different. At which level is the reading accurate? And, in the end, does this have anything at all to do with the base pH of the soil? Be sure to check your facts on this one. In coco, yes, most of what you say is true... but in soil, it is not. A difference in incoming and runoff pH in soil is mostly meaningless. Sorry to jump on you like this, but we need to make sure that misinformation is not passed on.
I have to correct #3 a little too, although what you say does happen... if you feed/feed/feed in soil, the nutes will build up and because they are acidic the container becomes acidic when you add water. It is the nute buildup that kills the plants, not that the base pH of the soil has changed.
So that being said, don't let mean old me chase you off... I meant this correction with the best of intentions and trying hard not to be insulting or demeaning. I am glad to see that you found this forum and I hope to have many an interesting conversation with you in the future.

 

[HappyHour]

If the ph of the runoff is much different than the ph of the water going into the growing medium, whatever type of growing medium you are using, that means that there is something buffering the ph of the runoff, ie nutrient buildup. Im not saying it is the most accurate soil ph test you can do. The "deficiency" shouldn't be an issue unless you are using such of a harsh nutrient mix that you kill any and all living micro-organisms that are in the soil(believe me, they exist) and throwing the ph so out of whack that you are locking up nutrients. I have done this very method myself using nutrients, back when I used them at all that is, to fix a ph problem i had because i never had more than maybe a facecloths worth of runoff every watering. I know what I am talking about and I know you think you do too but that doesn't give you the right to say I'm wrong simply because you don't know any better. Go ahead and give your "advice" to people, I wont say you are wrong, but I wont let you sit there and say I'm wrong when I know Im right.

Now that the record is set as straight as it ever will be, I never asked nor advised him to do a ph test. I never even suggested how he should go about doing it, but then you just posted a bunch of random ways to attempt a ph reading, that seems to me a bit informative and suggestive from your prospective. On the bright side, I see you have caught on to where I'm going with the questions, as I do indeed think his "deficiency" is actually just a nutrient lockout due to a ph issue at the roots, not at the jug. Regardless of your attempt at question 3 insults, you are showing you have a lot to learn about how you kill your plants if you think a plant dies from just salt buildup. If you had enough salt from nutes in your soil to kill a plant you wouldn't have much time to react, so this isn't his problem.

The problem is that regardless of if you water nute or nute nute, or even nute water water, there will almost always be some salt left in the soil. This salt can, especially if you are new to growing and "overcare" for your plants, buffer the ph slowly over time so that it looks like a plant is developing a "deficiency" when it isn't. The reason I say "deficiency" is because most people would assume they can just add more of that nutrient that is missing. Unfortunately this can kill a plant faster if it is due to salt buildup, as it will only make the problem worse. You will kill a plant much faster by over feeding it one nutrient than you can by starving it of one.

Since you went ahead and suggested a method of testing runoff, I think I should actually for real this time, tell the OP what I would do to test the "ph that matters for your plants optimal health right now" so that he and I can find out how to save his plant.

Testing "pH that matters for your plants optimal health right now"
Steps:

1) Saturate your growing medium with water that is around 6.5-7 ph, with little to no runoff. Then wait 10minutes before doing the next step to maximize consistency and allow salts to be dissolved and dispersed.
2) Water with 1/4 the amount it took to saturate the pot, ph'ed to the same amount.
3) Test the ph of that runoff. If the reading is way off from what you started with, you know you need to flush your medium before adding anything back to it. +/- 0.5 max difference in my opinion, I usually aim for +/- 0.3 max with nutes.

ps. I recommend that you do this the first time you water between feedings if you never want to get nasty surprises at any stage on a grow/strain you never done before. Once you dial in that specific strains needs to your feeding regime,
you won't need to to it as often. You should also check out growing the organic way, the plant literally tells the soil what it wants, in a sense.

I no longer use nutrients as a grower, as I find the ease and fun of doing it the natural organic way the best for me. If the OP wants any further advice from me, let me know. I did learn to grow good bud the nute way before I went down the organic road. Hope this helps. Haters be blocked.

 

[Emilya Green]

Go ahead and give your "advice" to people, I wont say you are wrong, but I wont let you sit there and say I'm wrong when I know Im right.

I love your confidence, and I have no desire to get in your way to become a well known grow expert around here, so we will just let your explanation stand on its own without further debate and we will see how it is received. As far as I am concerned, we are going to have to agree to disagree on a few of your points, because alas, I also know that I am right. Funny that... because I have years of experience and experiments and journals and tons and tons of writing and analysis on this subject that will need to be rethought if you end up being correct, and hundreds of followers and thousands of readers that will need a personal apology from me for all these years of misdirection on many online forums and indeed in my upcoming book on growing cannabis I will need to completely change some things based on your new revelations.

I say that as a new member here, you should immediately make your mark and let everyone know that your ways are the best, and show us how it all works by starting up a grow journal so you can teach us all exactly how you do this and show us by the example of your great gardens what happens using your carefully thought out methods. I have tried to do the same thing over the years and have documented my long learning experience in grow journals from my early days in FoxFarm and even Miracle Grow soil, using FoxFarm nutes and home made nutes, and then eventually finding my way to True Living Organic growing, but I suspect that with your ability to explain your theories, you will rise to stardom much more quickly than I did or ever could on these online forums. It is great to have you here, and I am immediately going to follow you so that I can devour every word that you write from now on.
Lastly, to our dear @jebivetr, our original poster, my profound apologies for this little snit and I promise it ends here. I still stand by my previous advice ... and now you have a little bit more to ponder. Good luck!

 

[jebivetr]

Hello all. I am sorry i did't post earlier somehow i missed notifications that something is going on in this thread.

Maybe i should clarify more i have total of 9 plants they didn't recive nutes till well in 4th week and even then i have been very careful about nutes (i started counting weeks 1 week from seed).
When i first started this thread 4 plants were showing mag deficiency and only one had what i would say more advanced deficiency after reserching some more i found that PH could be the problem and I know we have quite hard water here i just mesaured it now and its 7,7. I Wasn't controlling PH before because i didn't had all necesery equipment
So part of problem was definitely to high ph.
So i went and flushed all 4 plants with 6,5ph and added a little bit of nutes so that i don't flush them all out and started using CalMag.
From then on i have been careful about PH and all but one plant remain with deficiency and this is the plant on pictures.
Also i noticed deficiency early but i didn't act in time due to inexpirience. It has started around 1,5-2 weeks in to veg where i didn't add any nuts so i don't think salt is the culprit but then again i don't have much expirience

*Probably part of problem is that i hadn't had good setup for small plants so i moved them too quickly in to 11l (2.9gal) pots and i didn't allowed them to develop roots in small plastic cups i had them in at the start (and i know for fact that they hadn't had good root system becasue more than half of soil in cup has just crumbled when transplanting)... I am now well prepared for next grow. Patience is a virtue right

I have also read online about testing PH of runoff but as Emilya said i didn't see any logic doing it as diffrent % of runoff surely means quite diffrent results. Also all my pots have holes and when watering i allow for a little runoff to come out

So 6 days has passed from last picture i have dropped PH to 6,3 and added double amount of CalMag. i have watered it two times with that solution.

I also want to ask now they are 1st week in flowering and is need for mag in flowering same as in veg?

This is picture from today

And here is one from other plant

Thanks to all

Edit
Added part *

 

[jebivetr]

To conclude this thread giving it more calmag and kepping PH at 6.3 has indeed solved def with magnesium. Thanks all who helped. Take care