Help Understanding Discussions About "Yielded Ounces" & The "Start of Week 1 of Flowering"

[kingkola1]

When I read articles and they talk about 28 ounce yields from an indoor grow from one plant in a house, is the author talking about wet or dry ounces (i.e., just harvested weight, or after trim and cure)?

Also, when talking about weeks after start of Flowering, are they including the start of transition week as the start of week 1 of flower? The Emerald Harvest recipe has a transition week for feeding and that is the week I leave my lights on 24/7 and then go into 36 hours of dark before switching to 12/12 with my HPS light.

 

[Dwight Monk]

Well wet weight in my mind is totally pointless (or hath no meaning/relevance), but that said that seems like a lofty number off one plant dry weight indoors. Far as Flowering weeks go some folks go from flip and others go from first pistils, and from what I have seen it is about 50/50 split on that.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Usually people mean dry weight at the time of jarring. I think that's the accepted standard. People giving wet weight... ... generally met with quiet muttering and the occasional 'boo' or 'hisss'...
28 ounces dry from one plant? - that's a pretty special plant and a mini-epic grow. Totally 100% possible yes but just not without plenty of skill and effort.

As for start of flowering- it's just a number. It only matters in a relative sense. I use the date that I move them in to the flowering room under 11/13 lighting. Sometimes they're flowering within a week. Other times it's a month. Whatever date I write (or more often forget to write) they don't care.. They're ready when they're ready- which is the same time no matter what week# I call it.

 

[kingkola1]

Thanks for the great reply Weaselcracker and Dwight. I understand it better now the ounces and it all makes 100% sense on the discussion of yielded ounces. I couldn't imagine yielding 28 ounces dry on my indoor grow with 9' ceilings and a 1000W HPS light. I am happy if I get 10% of that from a plant dry (but I may have too many plants under my light).

Regarding the week of flowering definition, it seems to matter a bit in my grow for the following reasons. For example, I feed them with Emerald Harvest's 2-Part feeding schedule where they have different recipes for the transition to flower week, early flower, mid-flower, and late flower, plus a ripening week and finally the flush week. The flowers seem to take an extra week or so more than the seed spec if I use the start of transition as the start of week 1.

I have found it takes some experience and insight to predict where the plants will be the next couple of weeks down the road in flowering so the right feeding schedule can be used. So to help me and others, I took some time to photo document my last grow which can be found at Harvest Time Question ... my findings were that roughly, once the white Pistils just begin to turn brown, get thin and curl inward toward the bud, the browning will then increase about 25% (or perhaps a little more) per week and the trichomes will change from clear to cloudy at about 50% per week and some trichomes will start to turn amber in that time. It seems that during this time, new pistals and trichomes may grow as well. Is this similar to your experience?

Also, some say it is okay to remove the large fan leaves and anything below the third node from the top all the way up to week 3 of flower... So it is the discussions like these that I wanted a little clarity on when when week 1 begins.

Some say start the flowering week when you see the first buds appear, others the start of 12/12, etc.. So it is all a little confusing to me when week 1 starts. I guess you have to determine the definition of the start of week 1 is from the author.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Ah yes- feeding and flowering schedules, good point. I've ignored those for so long I forget they exist.
Well- to me those schedules are meant as a rough guide. First off- it seems to be pretty much an accepted norm that plants take at least a week or two longer (or sometimes many weeks longer) than the time stated by the breeder.
So the 'week 1- week 9' calendar can still be useful - but you usually have to stretch it out a little and that's where some experience helps.
Most often the extra calendar weeks are added in the middle of flowering somewhere. But it could also come at the beginning. Or you could stretch it out at the end and keep it in light feeding or water-only if it seems to take longer to finish than you expected.
The basic concept is a sort of gentle curve upward in the feeding levels over time followed by a fall towards the end. Along with a bit of tweaking of the different nutrients involved.
That curve shape can be stretched over 8 weeks or 18 weeks depending on the strain.

Even though I've labelled the day I switch as day one of flowering I usually assume the first week in the flowering room is going to be vegetative growth- and I feed it veg nutes. If a plant continues to veg for a few weeks in the flowering room/light cycle- I would consider it as a transition and feed it a mix of mostly veg nutes.

The 'week three' of flowering thing for defoliation is kind of a rough date meaning the point where the plant is starting to put out popcorn buds everywhere. It's not always at three weeks that this phase is reached. But it often is.
It's a good time to clean up a plant because you can see where the flowers are trying to form - and take the chance to prune it into a shape you want.

Would write more but I have to run right now. Hope this helps.

 

[Dwight Monk]

Like Weasel said kind of a rough guide on those, as not only do you have different strains wanting more or less amount of nutrients than others (as some more picky than other strains). You also have the difference in time factor, as an Indica might take 8 weeks in Flower to be finished and a heavy Sativa could go 12-14 weeks in Flower before it is done, so harder to use a "etched in stone" guide to go off of.

 

[kingkola1]

Thanks WeaselCracker and Dwight Monk, that helps a lot. I was thinking if I was off a week in feeding or something, I would stress out the plant and all the bad things that go with it. You guys have been a big help. Thanks!

 

[Jackalope]

Sorry I have to call bullshit. Possible maybe. 28oz from a tent or normal room I can see but doing it with 1 plant is pretty hard to believe. The time and energy to do it with 1 plant would not be cost effective. You could grow 2 crops in the same space in the time it would take 1 plant to grow to the point of being able to produce and sustain that much bud indoors. Even with hydro the planter would have to be huge to hold the root ball for a plant like that. Maybe they weighed the fan leaves and everything.

 

[kingkola1]

Thanks for that. My plants are pretty tiny compared to a 28 oz plant and was feeling in adequate. I typicall have 7 to 8 plants growing under a single 1000 W HPS light and get roughly 1.5 to 2.0 ounces (dry) from one plant on the average. Do you think I should put fewer plants in my tent? What is the optimum number of plants for a single 1KW light for the highest yield? I have always started out with 8 in case I run into a problem, but never had a problem that killed a plant, all 8 turned out fine but not sure if I am over crowding it and ultimately reducing yield... I do rotate the plants every couple of days so they get equal light though and keep them topped and defoliated nicely.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I think the number you have going is a good one. It's personal taste partly.

You can grow larger numbers of smaller plants and maybe have a faster turnaround- but it's more labour keeping track of more plants. I like growing in ten gallon pots (In peatmoss soilless- smaller for coco) with roughly 2'x2' of foliage per plant. Four plants per 600w hps. It's a slower pace than running a dozen or a couple dozen little ones. I find my plants are happier cause each one gets more attention.

You can grow one large plant in that space and possibly yield 28 oz- but it's a big undertaking. Takes a bunch of time and it's unwieldy. Not a plant you can move around- and it ties up your time and space for so long. Usually when people grow plants like that indoors it's mostly for for fun and to show off.
Talking about how your plant yielded 28oz is bragging by definition. So generally they're going to have documented the whole process and it will be easy to see whether they're being honest or not. If they haven't... they're just talking.

 

[Jackalope]

Thanks for that. My plants are pretty tiny compared to a 28 oz plant and was feeling in adequate. I typicall have 7 to 8 plants growing under a single 1000 W HPS light and get roughly 1.5 to 2.0 ounces (dry) from one plant on the average. Do you think I should put fewer plants in my tent? What is the optimum number of plants for a single 1KW light for the highest yield? I have always started out with 8 in case I run into a problem, but never had a problem that killed a plant, all 8 turned out fine but not sure if I am over crowding it and ultimately reducing yield... I do rotate the plants every couple of days so they get equal light though and keep them topped and defoliated nicely.

Dude you are doing fine. That is pretty much what I get out of my plants most of the time. Running similar stuff. I've been growing for years. I find it easy to grow plants like that so I don't push them and just let them do their thing in FF soil. Things go so much smoother when you don't push your plants. All this grams per watt is a bunch of hoopla. I run more plants under 1 light though. 12 in a 4x4 tent and 15 in a old closet I got that's bigger. It all matters how much air you can move. Over time your going to get a 3/4oz plant here and there too. You will also run into a big plant here and there. I had a Em Dog produce 5oz of bud. Biggest plant I have grown in 30 years. I don't feel inadequate at all nor should you. Plant weight is a pretty tame lie compared to some of the claims you will find on the internet.

 

[kingkola1]

Dude you are doing fine. That is pretty much what I get out of my plants most of the time. Running similar stuff. I've been growing for years. I find it easy to grow plants like that so I don't push them and just let them do their thing in FF soil. Things go so much smoother when you don't push your plants. All this grams per watt is a bunch of hoopla. I run more plants under 1 light though. 12 in a 4x4 tent and 15 in a old closet I got that's bigger. It all matters how much air you can move. Over time your going to get a 3/4oz plant here and there too. You will also run into a big plant here and there. I had a Em Dog produce 5oz of bud. Biggest plant I have grown in 30 years. I don't feel inadequate at all nor should you. Plant weight is a pretty tame lie compared to some of the claims you will find on the internet.

Thanks for the help and insight, Jackalope. I may have to try some of that Em Dog sometime! Cheers!

 

[TorturedSoul]

When I read articles and they talk about 28 ounce yields from an indoor grow from one plant in a house, is the author talking about wet or dry ounces (i.e., just harvested weight, or after trim and cure)?

First, I'd like to know which articles those are.

Second, some countries' laws are set up so that the penalties are far harsher for growing lots of plants than if someone gets caught growing only one (even if LEO needs an ax to chop that one plant down). I believe Australia might be like that (or used to be). For people living in those countries, sure, I can see that. One has to balance risk vs. reward, after all - and I've read about an epic single-plant grow that used thousands of watts (not a thousand). I took one look at the pictures and almost expected there to be actual wildlife living in there , even though it was indoors (looked like a small warehouse or some other kind of business/industrial building - maybe 20' ceilings, lots of room) .

But, as others have mentioned, it takes a lot of work. And a lot of time. You can't just throw a freshly rooted cutting into the flower room and expect it to blossom (lol) into a 1¾-pounder. I once managed to get 14 ounces from one plant - and with nowhere near 1Kw. I forget exactly how long I kept it in the vegetative phase, but it was around three months, I think. And it was a (one-plant) SCROG, too - so there was a bit of nightly maintenance. And by "a bit," I mean I'll never do THAT again. Moving many growing tips from the holes that they'd grown too tall out of seems like a simple thing - and it is... in theory, LMFAO. Did I mention "many" growing tips? Yeah... Picture a bunch of rabid cats - on @cid - being locked in a room just filled with bundles of yarn all day long, and you trying to untangle them. Blindfolded. By remote control. Whilst stooping down in one of those positions that makes your back cry after a few seconds, and you cry after a few minutes. Oh, and did I mention that this was in a closet? That meant access from... the doorway. Well, and the other end, if I wanted to belly-crawl around a corner from a different (sort of) connecting closet, but...

And I had my HPS in a space that was technically a little too large for the amount of light it was capable of putting out, so I ended up with more weight - but my buds were airer than I would have liked.

If you're looking to accomplish the extreme, try doing a really dense SOG (say, nine four to nine plants per square foot), packing the plants in as much as you can. Those, you can - and should - flower pretty much from the moment they've grown sufficient roots, or at least very soon afterwards. But that requires at least one mother plant, more if you haven't turned it into a large plant already, and under strong light (so it can constantly recover). And you'll want to grow just one strain (and one phenotype of one strain) or if multiple ones, they should be very close in growth/flowering behavior, so that you can maintain an even canopy. A densely planted SOG, or a really dense SCROG, is more suceptible to mold, IMHO, because it's harder for air to circulate through the canopy, which means that the moisture that the plants transpire tends to stick around longer. And a SOG grow is, of course, not one single plant, so...

I've seen some pretty cool production grows. If you do a search here (or on the Internet in general) for "Volksgarden" or... what was the other one like that... Anyway, they're like a SOG grow on a ferris wheel, with the lights (generally two) running through the middle, in a cool tube with no reflectors so that they're able to illuminate in a 360° pattern. Omega Garden, that was the other one. They look like this:

OmegaGarden Carousel

• TorturedSoul
• May 7, 2009
• 2

Found on the 'net. The OmegaGarden Carousel - from the makers of the Volksgarden. Six rotating...

OmegaGarden Carousel

• TorturedSoul
• May 7, 2009
• 1

Found on the 'net. The OmegaGarden Carousel - from the makers of the Volksgarden. Six rotating...

Or this, lol:

OmegaGarden Carousel

• TorturedSoul
• May 7, 2009
• 5

Found on the 'net. The OmegaGarden Carousel - from the makers of the Volksgarden. Six rotating...

A good use of space, but there can be issues.

I've also seen other kinds of production grow setups. A traditional SCROG, with additional plants growing vertically, trained onto screens - three or four screens, each with its own plant, kind of boxing in the scrog. Multiple lights in the middle, covering all of them. The grower moved one out of the way when he/she opened the door to the space, so he/she could get in there to do maintenance. Labor-intensive, but...

The vast majority of people who are chasing extreme yields are doing so because they're dealing. And, hey, if you're selling your crop, then it's a business - and businesses have expenses, lol, fact of life. So they're far more likely to just add more lights, get a bigger space, upgrade the wiring / circuits (/ possibly entrance cable), et cetera if they want larger harvests. Sure, many of them try to increase their efficiency, too - but they don't go insane about it .

OH! Speaking of insane - as in insane yields, not necessarily insane in da brain - I just remembered a guy who went by the handle of Heath Robinson (or maybe that was his actual name, IDK). If he's not the "grams per watt" king, he has to be in the top five or so. He's done several types of high-production grows. Here's one that he stopped by to drop on us poor unsuspecting members one day. 28 ounces, you say? Easy peasy - better double that number:
Heath's Latest Tree Grow

As others have mentioned, the only weight that counts... is trimmed and dried weight.

Also, when talking about weeks after start of Flowering, are they including the start of transition week as the start of week 1 of flower?

I can only speak for myself, here, but I've always counted the first day of 12/12 (etc.) lighting as day one of flowering. It works out that way if/when I use the 40:60 rule for predicting harvest dates (or length of the stretch period, if I already know the expected harvest date). And the stretch portion of the flowering period begins then, after all.

I suspect that some breeders pick a different start of flowering when they are writing their advertisements strain descriptions. After flowering has begun in earnest and is well under way, maybe. Or a couple weeks past that . They so often appear to be overly... optimistic when stating flowering times.

The Emerald Harvest recipe has a transition week for feeding and that is the week I leave my lights on 24/7

It's not "transitioning" (first part of the flowering phase) if you are not giving your plants enough uninterrupted hours of darkness... to begin flowering.

and then go into 36 hours of dark

Never could see the point of that, myself. Some folks do such things. They'll even do the same thing at the end of flowering, lol. But it's the light-energy that powers the plant . Some people will even arbitrarily pick off most of their plants' leaves one or more times during a grow. But the chloroplasts in those leaves are what processes said light-energy. I sometimes wonder if, when they get ready to go on a trip, do they begin by yanking out their vehicles' engines, LMAO? A buddy of mine once asked me if I thought he should strip off most of his plants' leaves. I replied, "You know what a plant does when you defoliate it?" He thought for a few moments and said, "Uhh... It grows more leaves." Gee, I wonder why a plant would expend energy to do such a thing? Cannabis... Bloody hard to kill .

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.