Help - Seedlings have really droopy leaves - is this from overwatering or what?

[Buddy McNugs]

Hi, I am working on my first grow. The seedlings are a few days old and since yesterday they have had very droopy leaves as you can see in the picture below:

The night before last I watered them a little but did let it drain out the bottom before putting them back in the cabinet. I need to get some kind of meter to tell me when they need water. So, is this from over watering the plants? Is it possibly from not enough water? Any other reason you can think of? What should I do? Thanks for any help.

 

[Mike Wright]

I'll look at your journal and reply there

 

[Ravyn]

If you watered them until you got runoff thru the bottom just last night, it is unlikely that they need more water already, IMO. tiny seedlings like those will likely take a few days to dry out, depending on the environment. If it is humid, they might go a week before they need water. wait until the cup feels light, like a dry sponge, before adding more water. Is the soil a starting mix or a potting mix? If the soil is for established container plants, it might have too many nutrients for the babies. they definitely look a bit stressed. a fairly high humidity (60-70% or so) and temps around 75 deg. F. should keep them happy.

 

[Buddy McNugs]

Hi thanks to both of you for your replies. They were under way too little light until yesterday when I got them under the CFLs. They stretched quite a bit up until that point. Now they are in the cabinet and even with the doors open and the fan on the temps are reading in the low to mid 80s. The soil is Foxfarm Ocean Forest but I did it about 60/40 with perlite for the seedlings because I heard it needed that since the FFOF soil has so many nutrients in it. I watered them the night before last and the next day the leaves started getting droopy like this, which is why I thought it was the water, but it was also when I put them under the CFLs so now I am thinking it may be too hot in there for them. I am going to get a new thermometer that also does humidity.

So, are you leaning more towards them having had too much water or more towards it being a heat/humidity problem?

 

[Ravyn]

low to mid 80's should not be too hot but if it was a small cabinet and the door was closed for a while, it might have got up into the 90s and stressed them out a bit. I would not give them any more water until they dry out and feel light when you pick them up. overwatering is never good. how high above them are the CFL's and what wattage are they? Maybe give them a bit more distance to the light if you have them really close.

 

[Buddy McNugs]

I just looked at some pictures online and it looks like overwatered plants look similar to underwatered ones. I think I will try watering one of them tonight and see if it perks up by tomorrow and if so I will water the other ones. I am also going to see if I can find some kind of meter that will tell me when it is time to water. I know it may sound silly, but I can't tell from sticking my finger in if it needs water or not. Or I may try another cup filled with soil and compare weights. A meter would be perfect, lol.

 

[Buddy McNugs]

Just saw your reply. I have 8 23w 6500k CFLs running and they are abound 3-4 inches from the tops of the plants.

 

[Ravyn]

nooooooo! test the weight first. I cannot believe those tiny plants could use more than an ounce of water since last night. The #1 way new growers kill plants is overwatering. if that little handful of soil is dry, they won't weigh much more than an empty cup.

 

[Buddy McNugs]

I was in the other room watering them when you posted this. I think maybe I have not been watering them enough because when I do water, I put maybe 1/5 to 1/4 of a cup of warm water in and wait until I see some drips coming out the bottom, not a lot out the bottom just a little. I checked the soil farther down with my finger and it felt brittle and dry so I added more water to each and let them drain really well. I hope I didn't overdo it but I think that maybe my watering is a little light.. maybe I need to do closer to 1/3 a cup each time I water. Hopefully through trial and error I will get this down, or I will find some kind of meter I can stick in the pot to tell me if it needs water, lol.

 

[Ravyn]

lol. put some dry soil in a cup. lift it with 2 fingers, close your eyes, and go, "hmmmmmm". now you will remember what it feels like when they are dry.

if you give them a good soak, like a whole cup of water, and then lift the cup again, you will know what they feel like when they don't need water. nice and heavy.

If the pot dries out at the top but there is still water in the bottom, the roots will grow down to search out the water and get a good root system established. If you water too often and too lightly, the roots will just hang around in the top inch of soil and you won't get a good root system. make them reach for the water and they will become stronger.

 

[Buddy McNugs]

I really do need to do that soil in a cup weight trick, I just haven't gotten around to trying it yet. I will definitely do it next time I think I need to water. I think I wasn't putting enough water in when watering, because I was only doing like 1/4 cup or so when watering. I think next time I will actually do closer to half to a full cup, let it drain til it stops dripping and then try that. I was so worried about over watering I think I was not putting enough water in each time. Next stop, thermometer with humidity reading and ventilation.

 

[Ravyn]

yep. happy environment = happy plants. good ventilation. good temps and humidity. and water them when they dry out.

 

[Buddy McNugs]

Good advice. Trying to get it to a Happy Environment for the little plants but keep running into issues. I am starting to get worried now. Here are how they are looking this morning:

Last night I watered them again and the two on the left I watered a little more than the other two to see if I wasn't putting enough water in. Any thoughts? Still trying to figure out if this is from overwatering, underwatering, too much heat(was in low 80s in there), or humidity issues. I got a thermometer that also reads humidity and have that in there. It has only been in there a few minutes and is reading 37%, but started at 40% a few minutes ago when I put it in(default setting when I turned it on) and it may continue to drop.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

 

[Ravyn]

no more water and try to increase the humidity level. 60-70% would be nice but that is a lot to obtain if you are under 40 now. You would likely need a humidifier to get it that high. before i got my humidifier, i tried hanging a towel over a container of water so the bottom of the towel was soaking. water wicks up the towel and then evaporates, increasing humidity. this was in a 2' x 5' room and it did help some. scale down the concept for your cabinet and it might help your situation too.

 

[Buddy McNugs]

Ha, well I can understand now how over watering is one of the most common mistakes with new growers. It just seems like they need water, lol. Ok, I will stop watering and will give it some time. How long do you think it will take without me watering before they start to perk back up?

I also wet a hand towel with warm water and folded it and put it in the cabinet beside the plants and took my spray bottle and did a couple light mist sprays in the cabinet and humidity has already started to climb. Back up to 40% now and I am hopeful it will start climbing more in a little bit. What about a cup of water? If I sat a cup of warm water in the cabinet would that help with humidity?

Thanks again!

 

[Ravyn]

hopefully they will perk up within 2 or 3 days. just let the cups dry out until they feel light before watering again. cup of water might help. or a saucer of water with a sponge in it. the sponge or towel increases the surface area of the water thus speeding evaporation. sounds like you are on track. have a good weekend.

 

[Buddy McNugs]

Awesome, that's great. How about an open plastic tupperware container with a sponge in it? I was thinking I could sit it on the very floor of the cabinet(under the shelf holding the plants). Should it be filled with water or should I just soak the sponge before putting it in? Thanks again!

 

[Buddy McNugs]

So, this morning when I got up and checked on my plants, they are still looking a little droopy. Is it just me or do a couple of them look kinda crinkly too? I know everyone is saying I may have overwatered but they still look sad and its been a couple days since I last watered them. It is hard not to water them, they look like they need it, lol. Here are a few pictures from this morning:

First all four from the top:

Next, close ups of them two at a time:

Now all four from the side:

Temps are reading mid 70s in one part of cabinet and 80 at another part of cabinet. I keep trying to get humidity up but it is staying around 40%. I think once I get the intake/exhaust set up and can close the doors the humidity will be better in there.

So, we are still thinking it is overwatering and I should just continue to leave them be? Just hate sitting by and doing nothing to help them, but if that's the best thing to do I will. Any other tips or advice or should I just continue to wait and see?

 

[Ravyn]

So, this morning when I got up and checked on my plants, they are still looking a little droopy. Is it just me or do a couple of them look kinda crinkly too? I know everyone is saying I may have overwatered but they still look sad and its been a couple days since I last watered them. It is hard not to water them, they look like they need it, lol.

Temps are reading mid 70s in one part of cabinet and 80 at another part of cabinet. I keep trying to get humidity up but it is staying around 40%. I think once I get the intake/exhaust set up and can close the doors the humidity will be better in there.

So, we are still thinking it is overwatering and I should just continue to leave them be? Just hate sitting by and doing nothing to help them, but if that's the best thing to do I will. Any other tips or advice or should I just continue to wait and see?

They still look a bit sad but that does not mean that water will make them happy. Especially if they have had too frequent, light waterings to start out. They will need to dry out and send some roots down.
The little wrinkly one in the back right looks the sketchiest for sure. The others look like they have grown some though. If they are growing that is a good sign for sure. It is hard to raise the humidity with the door open if the outside air is really dry. A little plastic dome over them might help. hmmmm. or a 2 liter clear pop bottle, with the bottom cut off over each cup maybe? I have never tried this, but just thinking out loud. if you are getting an exhaust fan set up to help that might be the best thing to work on.

 

[Buddy McNugs]

I am looking into getting a moisture meter that I can just stick in the cups to tell me when it is time to water(or at least that is how I hope they work). I am going to take everyone's advice I have gotten from forums and just let them do their thing for another day or so and see if they perk back up. The two that I didn't water a lot a couple days ago are actually looking a lot better than I remember so it may be that it was over watering and I just need to give them some more time to get back to normal. When you had seedlings this size(about a week and a day after popping above soil), how often did you water yours? Was it more than 2x per week? I know it varies, but just wondering.

I also did make a couple mistakes with the light cycle the last couple days. Had to go somewhere and didn't want to leave it on with doors open while I was gone so it went without light like 3 or so hours yesterday morning and then another 4.5 hours last night. Other than that it has been 24 hours a day. Will be changing to a 18/6 schedule probably starting Monday. But when I did have the doors shut last night for 4.5 hours while the lights were off in the cabinet when I came back the humidity was up to mid 60s. So I am hoping shutting the doors after I get the exhaust set up will help with humidity. Otherwise, I may get a small humidifier. Really would rather not do that though, trying to save space, so may try a towel in a pie tin or something on the floor of the cabinet under the plants, but if that doesn't work I may try that 2 liter bottle idea. That's actually a really good idea and I may try that next time I grow. I usually have a few of those bottles sitting around so that may be just the thing.