Help please

L

leafy86

Well-Known Member
OK here I am again with the same problem as last grow although THIS TIME I'M USING CANNA COCO. LAST TIME WAS SOIL. OK folks il start with the setup.
4x4 grow tent
15litre fabric pots
4 Auto stardawg
Ph 5.8
Temps on 27 off 21
Humidity about 46 lights on about 60 lights off
Extractor fan and small fan blowing in between plants.
Mars Hydro 3000 light 38inch above.

Seeds 11 days old
I had same problem with last grow and me or other kind people on this site could not get to the bottom of it apart from the soil I was using. Like I said I'm using canna coco pro plus this time.
I wet coco with 3ltr ph5.8 tap water which I always leave out over night with 1.5ml foliage Pro and 6ml rhizotonic added before using water . Then planted seeds straight in. They spouted 4-5 days later and all looked good. Then 4 days in I gave 200ml water about a inch from stem. Then they started to droop bad 4days after so I have them 500ml with 0.5 foliage and 1ml rhizotonic a bit further from stem and this is important I also sprayed the plants with 2 sprays of water at the reccomonded dose of rhizotonic solution 4ml per ltr (don't know if spraying them has caused this) as problem then started. But was no drooping the next day but the marks where there then the next day.
2 days from last water they was drooping bad again so I gave them 1ltr water with 1ml foliage and 2ml rhizotonic. Pics are from today. Gave them the 1ltr water yesterday and drooping is going today. Also I forgot to mention, the coco in pic looks dry, that's because I topped up pots a few days ago with stuff straight out the bay because one plant fell over.
 

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Hrenklin said:
Pour the water a little closer to the seedling. The routes generally go straight down first so they might not be absorbing the nutrients 4 inches away from the stem yet.
Click to expand...
Ah OK was told to start at stem then work outwards to promote roots to grow out. Or they to young for that yet.
 
Soil and canna coco watering are different methods. Here's some info regarding the medium you are using in case you missed it.

The most reliable method for measuring the nutrient levels in COCO is using the 1: 1.5 extraction method. EC and pH of the root environment can be determined by using this method. The pHand EC of the drain water generally deviates from the actual root situation, as COCO is able to retain and release elements.
1) Take a sample of COCO from the slabs or pots. This can be done with a soil core sampler or a trowel. To get a representative sample the COCO must be collected from as many places as possible.
2) Collect the sample in a bowl and determine whether it contains the right amount of moisture. The COCO has the right amount of moisture if moisture disappears between your fingers when you squeeze it. Add de-mineralized water if necessary and mix the COCO.
3) Take a 250 ml measuring jug and fill it with 150 ml of de-mineralized water. Add COCO to the 250 ml mark (photo3). Fully mix and allow the slurry to settle for at least two hours.
4) Mix again and measure the pH
5) Then filter this material and measure the EC. A 1:1.5 analysis can best be done after 3 to 4 weeks. The target values for EC are between 1.1 and 1.3, for the pH, between 5.5 and 6.2. Very high EC values increase the risk of burning symptoms. To limit the risk of burning symptoms, the COCO can be rinsed with acidified water containing Coco A/B nutrient at an EC of 0.65 (pH 5.8).

Because CANNA COCO is 100% organic it has a high but relative Cation-exchange capacity (CEC). This means the substrate has the ability to hold and retain certain nutrients vigorously thus requiring these nutrients be supplied in a special form that remains available to the plant. Due to the special Coco characteristics in combination with the unique pre-buffering process, it is possible to combine vegetative and flowering nutrients in one nutrient mix. The media and the plant itself control which nutrients are released to the plant at just the right times. This means the grower doesn’t have to worry about the proper point to convert from grow to bloom nutrients!

• It is not necessary to ‘water in’ with CANNA COCO in advance of planting. It is recommended to drip the COCO with nutrient solution (2 ml Coco A and 2 ml Coco B /liter; pH 5.5-6.2) until drain appears. The COCO now contains enough nutrients and water for a couple of days. Furthermore the right temperature (20 - 25 °C / 68 – 77 °F) and high air humidity will guaranty an optimal start.
• Do not place too many plants per square meter; plants will generally become larger on CANNA COCO and will need more space than on e.g. rock wool or potting soil.
• Always apply Coco A and Coco B in equal amounts, and mix well before measuring EC / PPM

Maybe some of that info will help as well.
 
Calvados said:
Are you using this? Nute Chart.

The PH range is 5.5 - 6.2. In soil they recommend you start at the bottom and migrate to the top as the plant matures. I don’t know how that relates to coir. It also makes some notes about water temperature.
Click to expand...
Not using that as I'm doing autos. I have purchased the a and b but in using foliage as I still have some and I'm chatting to a grower who uses same on here.
 
MrSauga said:
Soil and canna coco watering are different methods. Here's some info regarding the medium you are using in case you missed it.

The most reliable method for measuring the nutrient levels in COCO is using the 1: 1.5 extraction method. EC and pH of the root environment can be determined by using this method. The pHand EC of the drain water generally deviates from the actual root situation, as COCO is able to retain and release elements.
1) Take a sample of COCO from the slabs or pots. This can be done with a soil core sampler or a trowel. To get a representative sample the COCO must be collected from as many places as possible.
2) Collect the sample in a bowl and determine whether it contains the right amount of moisture. The COCO has the right amount of moisture if moisture disappears between your fingers when you squeeze it. Add de-mineralized water if necessary and mix the COCO.
3) Take a 250 ml measuring jug and fill it with 150 ml of de-mineralized water. Add COCO to the 250 ml mark (photo3). Fully mix and allow the slurry to settle for at least two hours.
4) Mix again and measure the pH
5) Then filter this material and measure the EC. A 1:1.5 analysis can best be done after 3 to 4 weeks. The target values for EC are between 1.1 and 1.3, for the pH, between 5.5 and 6.2. Very high EC values increase the risk of burning symptoms. To limit the risk of burning symptoms, the COCO can be rinsed with acidified water containing Coco A/B nutrient at an EC of 0.65 (pH 5.8).

Because CANNA COCO is 100% organic it has a high but relative Cation-exchange capacity (CEC). This means the substrate has the ability to hold and retain certain nutrients vigorously thus requiring these nutrients be supplied in a special form that remains available to the plant. Due to the special Coco characteristics in combination with the unique pre-buffering process, it is possible to combine vegetative and flowering nutrients in one nutrient mix. The media and the plant itself control which nutrients are released to the plant at just the right times. This means the grower doesn’t have to worry about the proper point to convert from grow to bloom nutrients!

• It is not necessary to ‘water in’ with CANNA COCO in advance of planting. It is recommended to drip the COCO with nutrient solution (2 ml Coco A and 2 ml Coco B /liter; pH 5.5-6.2) until drain appears. The COCO now contains enough nutrients and water for a couple of days. Furthermore the right temperature (20 - 25 °C / 68 – 77 °F) and high air humidity will guaranty an optimal start.
• Do not place too many plants per square meter; plants will generally become larger on CANNA COCO and will need more space than on e.g. rock wool or potting soil.
• Always apply Coco A and Coco B in equal amounts, and mix well before measuring EC / PPM

Maybe some of that info will help as well.
Click to expand...
Yes helps a lot. How do I lower the ec as I think it was 3 or something when I checked. I'm new to ec that was the first time I checked it.
 
leafy86 said:
Yes helps a lot. How do I lower the ec as I think it was 3 or something when I checked. I'm new to ec that was the first time I checked it.
Click to expand...

Simplest way would be the following:

How do I get my EC levels down?
To lower the EC level, just increase the runoff to 30% of the solution. To raise the EC, add more fertilizer to the solution, or change the nutrient solution. Water evaporation increases the nutrient concentration.
 
Hidden in the info above is the following as well:

The target values for EC are between 1.1 and 1.3, for the pH, between 5.5 and 6.2. Very high EC values increase the risk of burning symptoms. To limit the risk of burning symptoms, the COCO can be rinsed with acidified water containing Coco A/B nutrient at an EC of 0.65 (pH 5.8).
 
Hello , i have grown many plants in coco so here we go with correct info , ph- 5.8-6.0 , ppm should be about 200 for plants that small , i don't see any perlite in that coco ,it should be a 60 /40 mix , the roots need the oxygen and it prevents over watering , coco is a form of hydroponics so soak the whole pot daily and always with a small amount of nutes - you cant over water coco especially in cloth pots witch are great by the way , i use pot elevators to get them off the bottom of my catch trays so the pot isn't sitting in water -run off , speaking of run off besure to water -feed till the point of 20 % of the solution going in comes out the bottom , keep the nutes low as you are feeding every single day , i never get above 400 ppm to feed as they are getting fed every day , i use calmag 1st then a good quality hydro fertilizer , i use the g.h. flora nova grow for veg and the g.h. flora nova bloom for flower , these are a 1 part plant nutrient fertilizer and work great in coco .i also give my plants a small amount of silica every 2nd feed , i can actually use the silica as a p.h. product as my water tends to hit the 5.3-5.4 ph and the silica is very alkaline this brings up my ph to the 5.8-6.0 range , i run 24/0 light routine but 18/6 works great too , 12/12 for flower , ph and ppm are critical in coco , ps those plants are small enough to re pot as the perlite is crucial for good root growth and it is ph neutral , less is more on the nutrient side of things when it comes to coco as you are feeding every day , watch for the yellowing , if it starts to happen then it is time for a stronger ppm number , any damaged leaves wont repair them selves watch the growth at the tops , if its green and no burnt -brown tips you have now found the sweet spot for your plants , every plant is different in what it needs so giving a exact ppm number is impossible just watch the leaf color , sorry about the rant but its the real goods on a coco grow , good luck and keep em green !!
 
water temp should be between 70 and 73 degrees and a ph ppm pen are crucial for coco as you need a tight set of numbers be sure to calibrate them weekly at least .i use r.o. water for my plants but i see you are using tap water , i hope you aren't using water that has come from a system with a water softener as it will add way to much salt to your water , don't like tap water, too much shit in it to really know what really is in it , is it high in calcium , salt lead , etc , unless you have your water tested , you dont have a clue whats in it so it makes it hard to determine what the problem is when it shows up , i use a air stone and pump to super charge my water also .my lights and ph,ppm meter and my r.o. system are worth every penny and i would never grow in coco with out them .they just make life so much easier , i had a seat on the crazy train and sat in it daily till i truely realized what was important to my plants .
 
NOOOBIENOT said:
water temp should be between 70 and 73 degrees and a ph ppm pen are crucial for coco as you need a tight set of numbers be sure to calibrate them weekly at least .i use r.o. water for my plants but i see you are using tap water , i hope you aren't using water that has come from a system with a water softener as it will add way to much salt to your water , don't like tap water, too much shit in it to really know what really is in it , is it high in calcium , salt lead , etc , unless you have your water tested , you dont have a clue whats in it so it makes it hard to determine what the problem is when it shows up , i use a air stone and pump to super charge my water also .my lights and ph,ppm meter and my r.o. system are worth every penny and i would never grow in coco with out them .they just make life so much easier , i had a seat on the crazy train and sat in it daily till i truely realized what was important to my plants .
Click to expand...
Yes tap water left out over night to evaporate chemicals. Is that still not good?
 
Did you wash your coco first? reason Im saying this is that first couple of times I used coco had real issues, then I started washing it before use as I had read it has a high salt content. Solved the issue, wash the soil until no colour comes out before you use it.
 

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MrSauga said:
Simplest way would be the following:

How do I get my EC levels down?
To lower the EC level, just increase the runoff to 30% of the solution. To raise the EC, add more fertilizer to the solution, or change the nutrient solution. Water evaporation increases the nutrient concentration.
Click to expand...
So I'm testing the run off water ec not before I feed them. As you said to lower it get more run off? Also not giving them enough to get runoff yet ain't they too young for that much water?
 
Captain goodvibes said:
Did you wash your coco first? reason Im saying this is that first couple of times I used coco had real issues, then I started washing it before use as I had read it has a high salt content. Solved the issue, wash the soil until no colour comes out before you use it.
Click to expand...
Didn't no, as it's prebuffed twice. It says on bag
 
leafy86 said:
Yes tap water left out over night to evaporate chemicals. Is that still not good?
Click to expand...
I use tap water that has been left to sit for 48 hrs,it still reads 250 ppm. What that 250 ppm is I haven't got an idea. I live in a chalky area by the sea, so I'm guessing it's alot of salts and calcium (I bet in reality it's alot worse stuff.)
So tap water is not ideal,ro is better but I can neither get enough or afford it .
We have to sometimes use what's available and affordable.
 

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