Help Diagnose Issue In Late Flower

[PistolPete80]

Looking for some guidance and input on my current run which was going very well up until the last couple of weeks, and a lesser issue but more a question around defoliating. But first, the high level details:

• Jack 47 photo period grown in FFOF / HF blend on F42
• Using FF nute line and following soil feed schedule in 4 gal pots
• 12/12 light using LED

The one pic which shows no deficiencies was on day F27. All things were going smoothly. The other two pics are as of today. As you can see, am having some type of deficiency which looks like a possible Cal/Mag issue and have supplemented, mildly, CalMag even though am using tap water. My slurry tests indicate soil PH is good it was low 6's. So am confused as to what could be causing this issue which is unfortunate as the grow was going so well compared to my first one which had same problems although the slurry tests indicated low PH so added some baking soda to the water which raised it up and it finished ok. Really wanted to get a grow done flawlessly but now having same issue but as far as I can tell it doesn't seem PH related.

Any thoughts as to what might be the issue here? I did just do a full flush as per FF FAQ.

Lastly, as you can see in the one picture, the inner/lower bud sites are a really light green and are not maturing well which I suspect is because of the dense foliage blocking light. Is there a point I should consider trimming off fan leaves to allow more light exposure or should I just let it go?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[013]

Wow nice garden PistolPete!! That’s a frigging bush monster... Think we need @Emilya

but I will say that’s a shit ton of plant material for only 4 gallons of soil. Obviously this is a healthy specimen hitting the wall or deficiency but that’s a lot of plant and budsites to squeeze out of a little bit of soil.... I wouldnt try for a plant that size unless I had at least 8 gallons backing me up but 12 gallons would be even better.... anywho enough of my rambling!

you know the drill - more will jump in soon!

 

[PistolPete80]

Wow nice garden PistolPete!! That’s a frigging bush monster... Think we need @Emilya

but I will say that’s a shit ton of plant material for only 4 gallons of soil. Obviously this is a healthy specimen hitting the wall or deficiency but that’s a lot of plant and budsites to squeeze out of a little bit of soil.... I wouldnt try for a plant that size unless I had at least 8 gallons backing me up but 12 gallons would be even better.... anywho enough of my rambling!

you know the drill - more will jump in soon!

Thank you. Trust me, that size wasn't the goal haha. This plant was one of three of my first ever attempt and I mistakingly thought it was an Auto because I had ordered Autos but it was, rather, a "Fast" version. Consequently, it vegged for 8 weeks before I could get another tent and setup to put it on 12/12 and it became a monster. There are something like 27 ish top level colas on it. I would agree it's too big for the container size, but it is what it is at this point. Everything was going incredibly well as of two weeks ago, now this.

I just want to get one run in without any issues. In the future am going with a different soil with some living soil amendments that might get me a full run without requiring any nutes but for now this is what I have to work with lol.

 

[Northern Hydro]

Transplant it

 

[013]

It’s not too late to upcan... my Paki Valley ran out of steam in 5 gallons so I jacked her into 16 gallon tub at week 3 or 4 of flowering but yeah see what Emilya has to offer... she’s a wizard

 

[Emilya Green]

it looks like a pH related problem to me... most likely because of trying to defy the 6.8 base pH of the FFOF, thinking it needed to be lower. FFOF's base pH is set to the high end of the scale for a good reason... so that you experience drift when watering at the proper pH of 6.3. Make sure that every incoming fluid is properly pH adjusted to 6.3, and I bet all of your problems go away.

 

[PistolPete80]

it looks like a pH related problem to me... most likely because of trying to defy the 6.8 base pH of the FFOF, thinking it needed to be lower. FFOF's base pH is set to the high end of the scale for a good reason... so that you experience drift when watering at the proper pH of 6.3. Make sure that every incoming fluid is properly pH adjusted to 6.3, and I bet all of your problems go away.

Emilya, thank you for replying. If you remember, I was one with a similar issue that had two blueberries and after doing slurry tests, the soil PH was in the low 5's. This is the same soil (batch) as those plants and have been PH'ing input at 6.3. I have been doing flushes using Sledgehammer as per their FAQ guidelines and my last slurry test came back at 6.1. So it's confusing to me why I'd have this issue...could it also be that too much nutes caused a lockout of something? I've been following your and @InTheShed instructions but still got this issue.

I'm so confused. I feel like I am doing everything right and trying to follow advice as best as I can yet still having issues. I just did another full flush yesterday on water day as I am entering the final 3 weeks of flower as per FF chart so hopefully this thing can make it to the end without dying on me and producing some nice buds.

But back to the other question - should I consider defoliating given the light green colors and immaturity of the lower nodes? I feel like the density of the plant is blocking a ton of light and at this point, have stretched it as far outward as possible and have no more room in the tent lol.

 

[InTheShed]

Since the pH of soil is supposed to be higher than where you are now, it's possible that the ammoniacal nitrogen content of Tiger Bloom has managed to lower the pH. If you can find a fertilizer high in nitrate N, it will raise the pH of the soil. MegaCrop is almost entirely nitrate so that might work over a week or two. For faster results, you can try liming the soil.

I personally would have stripped the bottom third of the plant by now and any branches not at the canopy.

 

[PistolPete80]

Since the pH of soil is supposed to be higher than where you are now, it's possible that the ammoniacal nitrogen content of Tiger Bloom has managed to lower the pH. If you can find a fertilizer high in nitrate N, it will raise the pH of the soil. MegaCrop is almost entirely nitrate so that might work over a week or two. For faster results, you can try liming the soil.

I personally would have stripped the bottom third of the plant by now and any branches not at the canopy.

The bottom third has been stripped out, in fact maybe a little more than that, but the top third is like 1ft in length. As such, the bottom half given the density of the canopy isn't getting much light. I will look into other branches that fork off and are not making it's way to the canopy as that may open things up a bit.

Further reading into what you all are suggesting, it doesn't sound like stripping fan leaves at this point off the branches going to the canopy is not a wise idea?

 

[PistolPete80]

Here's a pic of the lower canopy so you can provide feedback on your one point @InTheShed

 

[InTheShed]

I would leave the fans if you've already stripped the bottom, but you can take thin stems and larfy buds right up until the end.

 

[Emilya Green]

I have never seen FFOF that low in pH. If you haven't added anything to it to cause this, I would suspect your method of doing the slurry test... something just isnt adding up. If you are watering at 6.3, and nothing is wrong with your soil, I am clueless what is going on or how you got here. The FF nutes and soil are designed to work well together across a fairly wide pH range, but somehow, it isn't working for you, across a couple of grows now... its got to be something basic that we just aren't seeing....

As far as defoliating, I have never been a fan. I also clear out the lower third of my plants in the last week of veg, and other than trimming a bit to clear out the middle of the canopy, I don't do a lot of trimming in bloom, even of leaves getting themselves in trouble... as you said, I just don't think it a wise idea to stress the plant at this stage of the grow.

 

[PistolPete80]

I would leave the fans if you've already stripped the bottom, but you can take thin stems and larfy buds right up until the end.

Thanks. Can you clarify what you mean by "you can take thin stems and larfy buds right up until the end"?

 

[Emilya Green]

That does seem to be a pretty thick bush there, and it probably would benefit from a little bit of clearing out, just so the air and light can get down in there.

 

[InTheShed]

I strip the bottom and tiny branches before flip, and take off any branches that I don't like at the end of stretch. Then I check weekly for anything I missed or something I thought would look good with flowers but doesn't. That goes. I do that right up until harvest along with taking off the larf that sprouts from the bottoms of the stems I do keep.

 

[PistolPete80]

I have never seen FFOF that low in pH. If you haven't added anything to it to cause this, I would suspect your method of doing the slurry test... something just isnt adding up. If you are watering at 6.3, and nothing is wrong with your soil, I am clueless what is going on or how you got here. The FF nutes and soil are designed to work well together across a fairly wide pH range, but somehow, it isn't working for you, across a couple of grows now... its got to be something basic that we just aren't seeing....

As far as defoliating, I have never been a fan. I also clear out the lower third of my plants in the last week of veg, and other than trimming a bit to clear out the middle of the canopy, I don't do a lot of trimming in bloom, even of leaves getting themselves in trouble... as you said, I just don't think it a wise idea to stress the plant at this stage of the grow.

I'm sure it's something I am doing lol. On the blueberries, I believe that was related to not flushing them properly using sledgehammer as when I was learning, it wasn't clear to me at first that it was mandatory. Consequently, after heavy nute use I believe the salt buildup is what lowered the soil so bad and once I watered with Baking Soda it stopped progressing worse but obviously did a lot of harm. Side note is I did get about 4oz a plant after trim they just don't have great bag appeal.

Now on this plant, I never had issues up until two weeks ago, and have been flushing as per the schedule. It's possible what I am seeing now is a build up from previously not flushing even though I've been following the flush schedule before symptoms appeared. I also on the first real flush only flushed with the same volume that I feed when I later learned from their FAQ it states to flush with 2X the feed volume. So maybe that's the issue and the visible symptoms are just delayed but existed or were manifesting more than two weeks ago???

 

[InTheShed]

Are you feeding immediately after flushing? And flushing is usually 2-3x the pot size, not the feed volume.

 

[Emilya Green]

it sounds like you have the flushing taken care of... I cant see residual salts being the problem. The baking soda however... that could have messed things up I guess, but that is a new one on me... so again I don't know.

Since it sounds like you have somehow killed the drift in your soil, it is going to be on you to move your nutrients through a bit of a cycle manually. I would try coming in at some different pH values then, and see if you can simulate what should be happening. Water once at 6.5-6.6 pH... and see what happens... if your soil is that far maladjusted, it might actually drift it downwards. Somehow, you are not picking up some of the nutes... and if it is a pH lockout, you can find the sweet spot with some experimenting.

 

[PistolPete80]

Are you feeding immediately after flushing? And flushing is usually 2-3x the pot size, not the feed volume.

I am not feeding immediately after flushing, I wait for my next feed day. Here's the FAQ from FF on flushing:

When performing a Sledgehammer® flush, we recommend using twice the volume of water as a normal feeding. For example, if you normally feed with two gallons of nutrient solution, you will want to perform a flush with four gallons of water mixed with Sledgehammer® at a rate of 2 teaspoons per gallon of water. This will help remove excess nutrients from the growing medium. Once you have completed your flush, you will want to wait until the top two to three inches of your medium have dried before adding nutrients. This will help prevent issues with over watering. "

As you can see, it doesn't state 3X container volume but 2X feed volume. Should I change that?

 

[InTheShed]

I go with 2-3x the pot size depending on how heavy my feeding has been. 3x definitely gets the runoff PPM down closer to my tap water. I don't use any products though, just tap water from the hose.

If you flush your plants and don't immediately feed them, then you are leaving your plants with a depleted medium for what...2-4 days? Could be part of the problem you're seeing.