Greenhouse Perpetual Grow In The Tropics

[CBDMed]

Your greenhouse looks great!
I hope your girls get all healed up!

 

[cbdhemp808]

It looks like your "greenhouse" is really more of a rain covering with open sides? You probably have nearly the perfect climate otherwise without much need to increase heat and humidity.

Yes, simple greenhouses here have nothing to do with heat and humidity – just the opposite. They need to be able to eliminate heat and keep the air flowing. Our veg house has a flattened hoop roof w/ PVC tubing and 6 mil 4-year greenhouse plastic, and the flower house has a pitched flat roof with polycarbonate panels. The veg house has high walls with a base of 2 ft of masonite (or metal roofing), then 5 ft of screen, then open above that. The flower house has nothing in the walls, just open. Fortunately we have nice sea breezes here – the ocean is about 2 miles away. Our climate is warm and humid. It rains a lot here, but is also sunny a lot. The sun is intense.

The two main purposes of the greenhouses are to cover the plants from rain, and to facilitate lighting in the veg house. Our photoperiod cycle is weird, being close to the equator – plants will flower as soon as they are mature, year round, unless you put them under photoperiod lighting. A secondary purpose is to protect them from critters. We have a lot of wild pigs here, for example.

 

[cbdhemp808]

POSTMORTEM ON THE CBD PLANT'S SUDDEN DEATH

Hey folks, here's the rundown on what happened to that poor plant – one day looking awesome, the next day drooping and leaves yellowing, didn't respond to water.

I took the pot out to dump it today, and took some photos. What I found was unexpected!

Yes the soil was very waterlogged, as I expected. There was compaction at the bottom of the tapered plastic pot, and root mass, which obstructed the drain holes. The roots at the top were mainly still in the shape of the 1 gal pot that I up potted from. All roots looked fairly normal, and normal color.

What I think killed the plant: a) primarily... some kind of white fungus attacked the entire base of the main stem; and b) the roots were drowned in water.

The fungus that attacked the base of the stem (i.e. "stem rot") likely ate into the phloem layer at least, and possibly down into the xylem. (I didn't do a cross section cut of the infected part.) Anyway... I learned some plant biology tonight... the phloem is the up and down elevator of sap that provides sugars and other nutrients. The phloem provides energy to the roots, so if the phloem is damaged, the roots will stop providing water and nutrients to the plant. The xylem transports water and minerals from the roots to the plant.

Here's a cross section diagram of the stem of a cannabis plant:

[ source: Manaia & Rodriges (2019). Industrial Hemp Fibers: An Overview. Fibers. 7. 106. 10.3390/fib7120106.
Creative Commons — Attribution 4.0 International — CC BY 4.0 ]

I would say the stem rot fungus was well into the phloem. I don't know if it went deeper than that.

Here are the photos:

I think the pot size is 10 gal... need to check. notice the tapered sides. there weren't enough drain holes.

the soil was very wet... wasn't draining

here's the stem rot at the base of the stem – a white fungus

close-up of the stem rot... quite advanced and likely destroyed the phloem, and maybe the xylem. (stem is on a cardboard box here.)

Conclusions:

Plastic pot drainage can be a real problem, especially with soil medium in a large pot with tapered sides and insufficient drainage holes. Buildup of water due to poor drainage causes similar symptoms as over-watering, including wilting and the potential for fungal invasion. If you transplant from a smaller pot that was root bound, and don't loosen up the root ball, then an improper root growth pattern can develop in the new pot. Plastic pots aren't like fabric smart pots – there's no permeability for air and water to pass through the wall. Plastic pots need to have proper drainage out the bottom. Fabric smart pots have good drainage, because the entire bottom is full of tiny holes that let water out, but don't get clogged with soil because they are too small to clog up (that's my understanding, anyway!).

 

[Azimuth]

Good analysis, cbdh. So, maybe a drainage layer of perlite or hydroton clay pebbles in the very bottom would help if you use that pot again, even though that would raise the perched water table a bit. At least the drainage holes wouldn't clog that way.

@Bill284 uses a technique where he uses several layers of perlite in his mix rather than mixing it in with the rest of the medium that he thinks adds to drainage and aeration. Of course he uses the pots with holes all up and down the sides so I'm not sure you'd get the same benefits in a solid sided pot.

Still, I'll probably experiment with the idea as I like the concept.

 

[Bill284]

Good analysis, cbdh. So, maybe a drainage layer of perlite or hydroton clay pebbles in the very bottom would help if you use that pot again, even though that would raise the perched water table a bit. At least the drainage holes wouldn't clog that way.

@Bill284 uses a technique where he uses several layers of perlite in his mix rather than mixing it in with the rest of the medium that he thinks adds to drainage and aeration. Of course he uses the pots with holes all up and down the sides so I'm not sure you'd get the same benefits in a solid sided pot.

Still, I'll probably experiment with the idea as I like the concept.

Hey Azi hope you are well my friend.
So sorry @cbdhemp808 about your lady.
My technique would help immensely in a plastic pot.
I use the usual amount of perlite in the soil but I layer perlite in between layers of soil / coco.
I also add Bokashi and frass to feed my roots for me.
It's a fantastic method that's adaptable to any situation.
BILL284 METHOD.
Pictorials are here.

Heavens Shores - Bill's 2022 Grow: Come Meet Howie! Show Us Your Grow Too - Bring A Pic

HEAVENS SHORES FEATURING SEEDS FROM Stay safe :cheesygrinsmiley: Bill

www.420magazine.com

Stay safe
Bill

 

[cbdhemp808]

OPEN ROOT BALL SURGERY ON GODZILLA

After the postmortem examination, I came home to give the Godzilla girl some love. I decided to remove the whole root ball from the pot, and move to a better pot. I think I created the ultimate drainage setup for a plastic pot! This was a multistage operation, addressing probable stem rot, and possible root disease (early stage). Will the patient recover? We'll see! Just in case, I took some clone cuttings yesterday.

Here are the photos (sorry, my phone's camera is a POS!):

Godzilla posing with her new 6 gal. pot

I made several new holes in the base of the pot for drainage, using a 1" hole saw; here I have added a layer of cinder stones

and then a layer of smaller cinder stones

now I cut out a circle of weed cloth – the same stuff I use to build our smart pots

the weed cloth layer over the cinders

I added a thin layer of my usual soil mix over the weed cloth

I mixed up a special batch of soil for this plant... I added some more of specific amendments: greensand, dolomite lime, potassium sulfate, perlite, coco coir, and plenty of Mykos.

here's the modified mix ready to go

Now I very carefully removed the plant from the old pot in preparation to give the root ball a hydrogen peroxide bath, rinse, and to loosen up the root ball. notice the 1 gal root ball still intact. other roots that had developed lower down easily disconnected from the root ball.

the hydrogen peroxide bath. I added 12 fl oz of 3% peroxide to 1 gal pure water. dumped the whole gallon gradually over the root ball. notice the bubbling. the objective is to kill off any fungus present.

END OF PART 1

 

[cbdhemp808]

OPEN ROOT BALL SURGERY ON GODZILLA

PART 2

I let the peroxide solution do its trick for a few minutes, then rinsed the root ball thoroughly with 1 gal of pure water. my supervisor, Chunky Boy, was watching to make sure I did it right.

now the plant is ready for its special soil mix

lastly, I topped the pot with a mulch layer of coco coir, then gave the plant a very thorough spray-down with neem solution, which is anti-fungal and absorbed into the plant's internal system. the lower stem looks possibly affected by internal fungus, so I blasted it with a lot of neem solution. note I didn't actually see any fungus mycelium during this operation. I gave the plant a gallon of pure water.

Stay tuned for updates on the prognosis...

 

[cbdhemp808]

if you use that pot again

thanks ~ I'm definitely not using that pot again. I've got better 6 gallon pots (like the one I just moved Godzilla to), and I've got the 15 gal smart pots that work great.

 

[CBDMed]

I mixed up a special batch of soil for this plant... I added some more of specific amendments: greensand, dolomite lime, potassium sulfate, perlite, coco coir, and plenty of Mykos.

@cbdhemp808 , thanks, I am learning a lot!
Sorry to hear about your girl.
The weed cloth seems like a very good idea, to keep the rocks and the perlite out of the rootballs.
And may I please ask a question of ignorance? What is the purpose of the greensand, dolomite lime, and potassium sulfate? (Is that kind of like a supersoil?)
(And those amendments don't need composting, because they are mineral?)

I thought I would copy @Emilya , because she just transitioned back to plastic pots, to help with her busy production line.
Probably she knows all about clogged plastic pots, but she grows some solid rootballs, so I thought I should copy her, just in case.

 

[cbdhemp808]

The weed cloth seems like a very good idea, to keep the rocks and the perlite out of the rootballs.

it's just there to make a water-permeable layer that won't clog. the stones underneath create an ideal layer to move the water out of the drain holes.

And may I please ask a question of ignorance? What is the purpose of the greensand, dolomite lime, and potassium sulfate? (Is that kind of like a supersoil?)
(And those amendments don't need composting, because they are mineral?)

Haha, I knew someone was going to ask well, it's part intuition, part "I read it somewhere" for treatment of possible root disease fungus. Correct, they are minerals. The presence of myco will help the roots absorb the nutrients.

I thought I would copy @Emilya , because she just transitioned back to plastic pots, to help with her busy production line.
Probably she knows all about clogged plastic pots, but she grows some solid rootballs, so I thought I should copy her, just in case.

I think plastic pots can be fine... I did recently have a pretty solid harvest from a CBD plant grown in a 6 gal pot. That pot had no drainage problems, without doing anything creative to it. For my Godzilla, I felt I needed to give her some special treatment, hence the added minerals and fancy drainage setup. It's all mostly an experiment I gotta say though, the smart pots never give me any drainage issues, and the big Blue Dream and Gelato plants are doing amazingly well in them. Those plants seem like super plants... very pest and disease resistant... amazing.

have a great day and thanks for your questions.

 

[cbdhemp808]

This plant didn't make it... leaves all turned yellow, including the top of the stem. Some kind of rot on the base of the stem. Chopped and thrown out. The clones looked really bad, too, so I aborted them. No huge loss here... I will maybe look for a different source for Godzilla seed. BTW, I looked at Coffee Shop Seeds... I like what I see!

 

[CBDMed]

This plant didn't make it... leaves all turned yellow, including the top of the stem. Some kind of rot on the base of the stem. Chopped and thrown out. The clones looked really bad, too, so I aborted them. No huge loss here... I will maybe look for a different source for Godzilla seed. BTW, I looked at Coffee Shop Seeds... I like what I see!

Please accept my condolences after your loss.
May the correct seeds get to you!
Amein.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Tomorrow is the big day... I'm gonna top the Gelatos in the veg house... they are around 8 ft now. And then take some cuttings also. Will also do a little more topping on the Blue Dreams in the flower house as they are starting to touch the roof.

Next time around, with the clones, I'll top sooner and flower them sooner. This has been an experiment to see how tall they get in veg. With the Gelatos, I have 3 phenos... one has a more vertical growth pattern and very tall, another more bushy and relatively not very tall, and one in the middle. At least I think they're phenos... but could be affected by their placement in the greenhouse.

 

[CBDMed]

Tomorrow is the big day... I'm gonna top the Gelatos in the veg house... they are around 8 ft now. And then take some cuttings also. Will also do a little more topping on the Blue Dreams in the flower house as they are starting to touch the roof.

Next time around, with the clones, I'll top sooner and flower them sooner. This has been an experiment to see how tall they get in veg. With the Gelatos, I have 3 phenos... one has a more vertical growth pattern and very tall, another more bushy and relatively not very tall, and one in the middle. At least I think they're phenos... but could be affected by their placement in the greenhouse.

I hope that goes well for you.
How long did it take the Gelatos to reach around 8 ft??
And do you have any kind of tropical "seasons"?
Or do you control veg and flower with the night lights?

 

[cbdhemp808]

I hope that goes well for you.
How long did it take the Gelatos to reach around 8 ft??

I think they were started right around April 1, so about 3 months. 15 gal smart pots. I tend to keep new genetics that I'm trying out in veg much longer than needed. It also depends on the space available in my flower house, which is currently maxed out – maybe can fit one more plant in there, but these Gelatos are huge! I typically see total flowering time of 5-7 weeks.

And do you have any kind of tropical "seasons"?

Yes, we have a definite difference between summer and winter seasons. Summer has our most dry months, which we are starting to experience now, although in recent years there has been a lot of rain, usually at night. Part of Nov., and Dec., Jan., Feb. are usually the most wet. Temperatures are also different, although the norm year round is mid to high 70s, or 80, or so during the day, and low usually not lower than mid 60s. Winter can get down to high 50s at the lowest at night, which is rare. This time of year now, and going into Aug. and Sept. can get into the mid 80s and rarely more than that during the day. Nighttime temps can stay in the mid to high 70s.

Or do you control veg and flower with the night lights?

Our shortest length of night here is 10 hrs 40 min (on summer solstice June 20), meaning photo plants will flower here year round as soon as they are mature. So yes, I use night interruption lighting to keep plants in veg. Most cannabis will start flowering with 10-10.5 hrs of night, not 12 as most people think.

thanks for your questions!

 

[Azimuth]

Most cannabis will start flowering with 10-10.5 hrs of night, not 12 as most people think.

I think that's right. Most of us do 12 dark hours just to be safe as that builds in a bit of a buffer to account for slightly different genetics.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I think that's right. Most of us do 12 dark hours just to be safe as that builds in a bit of a buffer to account for slightly different genetics.

Yes, we talked about it before, here.

Seems 11-11.5 would be enough of a buffer, then you'd be getting that much more photosynthesis. Testing 11-11.5 for any particular grow wouldn't be a big deal, depending on how long the plants are in veg. I think my plants start showing flowering within 2 weeks of going to the flower house.

The article I referred to before on this subject says,

"Although some tropical landrace varieties [sativas] may require 12 hours or more of darkness to flower, most commercial cultivars will flower with 10-10.5 hours of darkness."

All the genetics I've grown so far flower any time of the year here, and our night length June 1 to Sep 1 is 10.75-11.5.

 

[Azimuth]

Yes, we talked about it before, here.

Right. Thanks, I thought we had but wasn't sure which journal it was in.

 

[CBDMed]

I think they were started right around April 1, so about 3 months. 15 gal smart pots.

That's great!

I tend to keep new genetics that I'm trying out in veg much longer than needed.

I was just curious if you would want to share your reasons for doing so.
Why do you do this test?
And how do you know when a plant fails a test?
And what do you do with a plant that fails the test?

It also depends on the space available in my flower house, which is currently maxed out – maybe can fit one more plant in there, but these Gelatos are huge! I typically see total flowering time of 5-7 weeks.

I may have to check out Gelato... hahaha.

Yes, we have a definite difference between summer and winter seasons. Summer has our most dry months, which we are starting to experience now, although in recent years there has been a lot of rain, usually at night. Part of Nov., and Dec., Jan., Feb. are usually the most wet. Temperatures are also different, although the norm year round is mid to high 70s, or 80, or so during the day, and low usually not lower than mid 60s. Winter can get down to high 50s at the lowest at night, which is rare. This time of year now, and going into Aug. and Sept. can get into the mid 80s and rarely more than that during the day. Nighttime temps can stay in the mid to high 70s.

Ahh, I see.
Hawaii is about 19-20 degrees off the equator.
The Tropic of Cancer is about 23 degrees north.
Sounds like a great environment.

Our shortest length of night here is 10 hrs 40 min (on summer solstice June 20), meaning photo plants will flower here year round as soon as they are mature. So yes, I use night interruption lighting to keep plants in veg. Most cannabis will start flowering with 10-10.5 hrs of night, not 12 as most people think.

thanks for your questions!

That seems very good to know.
How much flower do you harvest off of your girls when they are 8' tall like that??

 

[cbdhemp808]

"I tend to keep new genetics that I'm trying out in veg much longer than needed."

I was just curious if you would want to share your reasons for doing so.
Why do you do this test?
And how do you know when a plant fails a test?
And what do you do with a plant that fails the test?

It's not really a test. It's more like just seeing how big they'll get in veg, and to allow phenotypic differences to fully emerge. They are so tall I need to top them in order to fit in the flower house... space in there is only about 8 ft. I actually just got in from topping them! (pics later)

So that's part of it, but not the whole story. Also, I just have a laid-back Hawaiian approach and don't carefully plan out the whole sequence from clones, to veg, to flower. It just flows organically. If the flower house is full, then I have to wait. I also need to stagger the harvests so that I don't have too much bud material to process.

Next time around I'll be growing the clones and topping much sooner, to make them more bushy.

I may have to check out Gelato... hahaha.

This one I have is actually a Gelato cross from Humboldt, Calif., not a pure Gelato.

How much flower do you harvest off of your girls when they are 8' tall like that??

First time with these Gelato cross and Blue Dream cross (also very tall). The 2 Blue Dream I'm guessing will start showing flowers next week, then it will take probably another 5-7 weeks for buds.