- Thread starter
- #682
The oil bath is our least favorite part of the process greatwolf, so we appreciate another analytical brain jumping in. PsyCro to went to blending the oil, water and buds directly into the chamber of the pressure cooker, no jars or pot-in-pot, as we've experimented with since he handed us this idea. Our theory is that the combining of these components will allow decarboxylation while bonding the terpenes and cannabinoids to the carrier oil.
Whatever's going on, it's an oil that is far superior in effect than the classically made infused oils, using dried and decarbed buds. The effects are noticeably enhanced and healing accelerates. I'll be doing my next Pot-in-pot with a small batch today for 75 minutes at high pressure. That may be enough to avoid the hot oil bath in future. I'm working this out because I do small batches of oil for brownies and I need a quick and reliable method for that specialized need. After today there may be one more test at 90 minutes, but from then on I may be able to retire the hot oil bath.
In my opinion it's not necessary to get complete decarb for this oil, or any canna oil, to be dynamic healing modality, and in fact, cannabinoid diversity is something to be embraced.
Are you enjoying the dark side?
I imagine you slipping in and out of the shadows to post. If I haven't said so already, thank you for adding your brain to the ongoing search for deeper understanding. Knowledge is power.
Enjoying the darkside? Hardly. It is a reference to my existence. I suffer from severe back pain that limits how long I can sit or stand at a time (less than 30 minutes), only a few times a day. I can walk a little longer, maybe 45 minutes. So I usually waste my sitting time on silly things like meals...
I have a hyper-sensitive spot on my lower back that cannot be touched without burning pain which becomes excruciating if that touch is not removed. So I'm left with mostly laying on my side. Oh, and surgery has given me a barometer that is far more accurate than local or national weather forecasters. That is my darkside. A bit of a pun to laugh at myself. At least my mind and humor, such as it is, still work.
So I understand the desire to decarb in oil. In my case, I'll probably have to try twice as I believe I'll need full decarb. I had to choose to grow autos so I could grow on a table (back, remember? ), with cob led above them. So I chose to go with blueberry (Thai indica derivative, and I'm familiar with Thai from treating migraines in the early 80's) to help me sleep and Tangerine Dream (60% sativa) for daytime.
But both of these are listed as medium cbd so I'll need to convert all of it. I've been using cbd for 4 years and it allowed me to stop oxy. They work about the same (20-40% relief) but the cbd works better for spasms, none have lasted longer than 12 hours as opposed to over 72 on oxy.
My hope, if this helps, is to try to cross the blueberry auto with cbd blueberry, and Tangerine Dream auto with cbd Moby dick. If I could get a higher cbd autos to use, that would be great. But I'm about 2 months away from harvest so still researching how to process.
Speaking of which, has anyone tried this extraction method with vegetable glycerine in this process in order to produce an e-liquid for immediate pain relief?
Cheers from the darkside
I have a hyper-sensitive spot on my lower back that cannot be touched without burning pain which becomes excruciating if that touch is not removed. So I'm left with mostly laying on my side. Oh, and surgery has given me a barometer that is far more accurate than local or national weather forecasters. That is my darkside. A bit of a pun to laugh at myself. At least my mind and humor, such as it is, still work.
So I understand the desire to decarb in oil. In my case, I'll probably have to try twice as I believe I'll need full decarb. I had to choose to grow autos so I could grow on a table (back, remember? ), with cob led above them. So I chose to go with blueberry (Thai indica derivative, and I'm familiar with Thai from treating migraines in the early 80's) to help me sleep and Tangerine Dream (60% sativa) for daytime.
But both of these are listed as medium cbd so I'll need to convert all of it. I've been using cbd for 4 years and it allowed me to stop oxy. They work about the same (20-40% relief) but the cbd works better for spasms, none have lasted longer than 12 hours as opposed to over 72 on oxy.
My hope, if this helps, is to try to cross the blueberry auto with cbd blueberry, and Tangerine Dream auto with cbd Moby dick. If I could get a higher cbd autos to use, that would be great. But I'm about 2 months away from harvest so still researching how to process.
Speaking of which, has anyone tried this extraction method with vegetable glycerine in this process in order to produce an e-liquid for immediate pain relief?
Cheers from the darkside
When Bill Gates explores new processes he chooses the laziest person he can find. His thought is they will find the simplest route...
I learned it from grandparents (old world) 50 years ago:
There's bad lazy and good lazy. Bad lazy is doing a half-assed job, good lazy is doing it right the first time. Then you can do something fun.
To be honest, it took me a while to learn it, but I was just a kid at the time. .
Back to the darkside
- Thread starter
- #686
Ouch!
That hug was meant to avoid the touchy area. As far as I know, no one has tried with VG. Have you considered looking at DMSO? A couple of the crew have played with it over at the study hall and at Cajun's cancer regimen. It's a swift delivery method, for sure, but one we haven't figured out how to harness safely yet. Arctic Bowl and his beloved were the latest to delve into the mystery, and I recall them being amazed by the effectiveness.
Hmmm.... wonder if they're still playing with it?
If you get photos instead of autos from your breeding project you could run them 12/12 from seed and they grow like autos. Sometimes the photo pheno turns out to be the one you need.
I have a plant to get trimmed into bags to dry in the fridge. When I finish that job I'll be checking my latest oil attempt for level of decarb. This one was done for 75 minutes on high pressure. Cross the fingers and toes.
Ditto. My dad would make sure the second time doing it took me 2x as long...lesson stuck.
Bucudinkydow
Well-Known Member
"
Very good points, and welcome to the effort.
Understand we're all making best guesses here. At the Holy Grail thread they play with testing to see how close we are to our goals, but few of us actually have the testing option available."
********************************************************************************************
Sometimes we have to fly by the seat of our pants and just go with what feels good. I know you and others have done some comparisons with the pressure cooker method and are pleased with the results and that's what counts.
On the holy grail thread, however, canyon did a terpene lab test with his pressure cooked method. If you do a line by line comparison of the pre-decarb and the post pressure cooker lab tests, you'll see the major monoterpenes didn't fair very well. Linalool, myrcene, a & b pinene and limonene lost between 43-87%.
Bucudinkydow
Well-Known Member
I've never tried the pressure cooker extraction method with VG but I did have miserable results using it as a direct extraction carrier in my MBM2 and stove top methods. VG is a notoriously poor extraction substance. I've done much better doing a QWET and then transfer to VG.
Not touchy about it, just explaining it so you'll understand. As I said, I laugh at myself. I was taught if you can't laugh at yourself, you have no right to laugh at anyone else.Ouch!
As far as I know, no one has tried with VG. Have you considered looking at DMSO? A couple of the crew have played with it over at the study hall and at Cajun's cancer regimen. It's a swift delivery method, for sure, but one we haven't figured out how to harness safely yet. Arctic Bowl and his beloved were the latest to delve into the mystery, and I recall them being amazed by the effectiveness.
Hmmm.... wonder if they're still playing with it?
If you get photos instead of autos from your breeding project you could run them 12/12 from seed and they grow like autos. Sometimes the photo pheno turns out to be the one you need.
I have a plant to get trimmed into bags to dry in the fridge. When I finish that job I'll be checking my latest oil attempt for level of decarb. This one was done for 75 minutes on high pressure. Cross the fingers and toes.
Yes to checking out dmso, no to wanting to experiment with that. I'd rather spend the money on an mbm, which is an expense I'd prefer to avoid. But it would seem from the process and temperatures involved that I might be able to adapt this to vg, since it is similar enough to how the mbm operates...
Yes, I first considered photos as I am well aware if raised under 12/12 they will skip the majority of veg state, but production is low and harvest would probably be longer than what I expect from auto (no previous experience with autos). I also considered sog (I still remember when this was a new technique), but rejected this for now for the work involved, given my limitations. Autos under 20/4, and i suspect if not stressed by topping or anything else, and if fed bloom nutes from the beginning, will probably be ready the soonest, with a usable amount. Then, if it works for me, I can look at photos, especially for crossing for a second grow.
I don't know that thc+cbd will offer any more benefit for pain management or insomnia (I seldom sleep more than 2-3 hours in a row), so I'm looking for an initial quick turnaround. Hence, the 2 plants that I chose, and now researching extraction methods.
And now, back to the darkside.
A rule for autoflowers : deeper pots = deeper autoflower roots = larger yields
Blessings as you journey on the path of healing. 
Dave Groomer
Well-Known Member
Ouch!
As far as I know, no one has tried with VG. Have you considered looking at DMSO? A couple of the crew have played with it over at the study hall and at Cajun's cancer regimen. It's a swift delivery method, for sure, but one we haven't figured out how to harness safely yet. Arctic Bowl and his beloved were the latest to delve into the mystery, and I recall them being amazed by the effectiveness.
Hmmm.... wonder if they're still playing with it?
If you get photos instead of autos from your breeding project you could run them 12/12 from seed and they grow like autos. Sometimes the photo pheno turns out to be the one you need.
I have a plant to get trimmed into bags to dry in the fridge. When I finish that job I'll be checking my latest oil attempt for level of decarb. This one was done for 75 minutes on high pressure. Cross the fingers and toes.
I have made VG tincture in the MB2. It is a sloppy mess and a pain to strain unless it is piping hot, then if you splatter it on you it sticks to you and burns.
To use it in an e-pen, you need to add propylene-glycol. I found it to be very harsh on the throat. Get a good vape for bud. I didn't find the VG for the pen was worth my time. As for the DMSO, I was one of the people playing with it. The worst side effect is the smell that comes off your body. It is offensive to many people and I was not able to find anything that could mask it, so I stopped using it.
A topical cream may help to some extent. Let me know if you ant the recipe.
- Thread starter
- #693
I have much better results with my autos when I top them once, at 4-5 nodes high. Yields increased noticably from untopped specimens. You want chemovars that'll produce copious amounts of oil, which can be supported by that 20/4 lighting schedule. That's my default for veg as well as my choice for autos, start to finish. That quick turnaround is wounderous. In 2-3 months or so you have a harvest to schedule.
We have a member who's off living his life these days who left behind a brilliant grow journal documenting the grow he and his housemate ran with autos. It's like a primer on how to do it right. They were pulling a consistent 4-6 ounces per plant when they closed down the operation because they had so much on hand it made them nervous to keep going. It might come in handy in your search for quantity as well as quality.
Arteekay's Second Grow - Crop King Autos & Feminized - Mixed Strains
- Thread starter
- #694
The latest attempt.....
75 minutes at high pressure.
It took six minutes to begin bubbling. This time all I really got were the tiny champagne bubbles.
Two minutes later and still only small bubbles.
After 20 minutes she stopped bubbling from below. Decarb complete.
This was very similar to the last run, which took the same 20 minutes to finish decarbing. Next batch I'll do for the entire 90 minutes. If that doesn't give me closer to complete I'll do the next one at 90 minutes, cool it down, and run it again for additional time until I figure out what setting and time gives me the results I'm looking for without the hot oil bath.
I'm really surprised at the time still required to get nearly total decarb. I was expecting this attempt to do more decarb than it did.
One of the changes I made this time was to use the rack from the pressure cooker in the hot oil bath instead of the jar lids I was using previously. Those lids worked, but there's a dangerous tendency for air to get caught in them, which can rise and bubble unexpectedly. Using the pressure cooker rack eliminated that anxiety entirely.
I'll be happier when I figure out how to eliminate the hot oil bath itself.
75 minutes at high pressure.
It took six minutes to begin bubbling. This time all I really got were the tiny champagne bubbles.
Two minutes later and still only small bubbles.
After 20 minutes she stopped bubbling from below. Decarb complete.
This was very similar to the last run, which took the same 20 minutes to finish decarbing. Next batch I'll do for the entire 90 minutes. If that doesn't give me closer to complete I'll do the next one at 90 minutes, cool it down, and run it again for additional time until I figure out what setting and time gives me the results I'm looking for without the hot oil bath.
I'm really surprised at the time still required to get nearly total decarb. I was expecting this attempt to do more decarb than it did.
One of the changes I made this time was to use the rack from the pressure cooker in the hot oil bath instead of the jar lids I was using previously. Those lids worked, but there's a dangerous tendency for air to get caught in them, which can rise and bubble unexpectedly. Using the pressure cooker rack eliminated that anxiety entirely.
I'll be happier when I figure out how to eliminate the hot oil bath itself.
If it took an additional 20 minutes on the stove, 15 minutes more at high pressure is probably not going to be sufficient. But it doesn't hurt to test.The latest attempt.....
75 minutes at high pressure.
It took six minutes to begin bubbling. This time all I really got were the tiny champagne bubbles.
Two minutes later and still only small bubbles.
After 20 minutes she stopped bubbling from below. Decarb complete.
This was very similar to the last run, which took the same 20 minutes to finish decarbing. Next batch I'll do for the entire 90 minutes. If that doesn't give me closer to complete I'll do the next one at 90 minutes, cool it down, and run it again for additional time until I figure out what setting and time gives me the results I'm looking for without the hot oil bath.
I'm really surprised at the time still required to get nearly total decarb. I was expecting this attempt to do more decarb than it did.
One of the changes I made this time was to use the rack from the pressure cooker in the hot oil bath instead of the jar lids I was using previously. Those lids worked, but there's a dangerous tendency for air to get caught in them, which can rise and bubble unexpectedly. Using the pressure cooker rack eliminated that anxiety entirely.
I'll be happier when I figure out how to eliminate the hot oil bath itself.
I believe that the oil is absorbing much of the heat energy, which is why it will probably take 2 decarb cycles. I'm just not sure if 90/70 or 90/90 with the cool down in between. Remember that the oil bath is hotter than the instant pot can reach, so we have to trade time for temperature. It's great that the 420 community has explorers such as yourself to discover the way for us followers.
More to come from the darkside
Hi Dave,I have made VG tincture in the MB2. It is a sloppy mess and a pain to strain unless it is piping hot, then if you splatter it on you it sticks to you and burns.
As for the DMSO, I was one of the people playing with it. The worst side effect is the smell that comes off your body. It is offensive to many people and I was not able to find anything that could mask it, so I stopped using it.
A topical cream may help to some extent. Let me know if you ant the recipe.
Really appreciate the info. Not sure why vg would be worse to strain than coconut oil or evoo. And I know about adding pg; I've been vaping for about 9 years, got me to quit cancer sticks when nothing else did. Now just 3mg/ml, more habit than addict. And I use it for cbd e- liquid for pain management.
Topical may be worth trying for the sensitivity. But not for intense spasms, or certain attacks that I need instant relief for. I'm not exaggerating when I say they can be 7-9. This is what I'd like an e- liquid for, something I can use in public if necessary (I know how to use flavorings to try to cover if not too bad).
Cheers from the darkside
I might have an answer on the different bubble sizes and why you only had small, champagne bubbles last time. I suspect the larger bubbles are actually water vapor. There are still some plant cells remaining in your oil, as you are probably aware. In your last process, you had driven off the last of the moisture from those remaining cells, hence only fine, CO2 bubbles remaining. These are from the decarb of thca and cbda.
Cheers from the darkside
Cheers from the darkside
Dave Groomer
Well-Known Member
Have you tried a good herb vaporizer? I have the Air II from Arizer that I am writing a review for as we speak. Watch for it to publish soon, but it is the best vape I have used t date. Everything didn't like with other vapes, are not issues with this one.
Let me know when it's ready and I'll be happy to read it.Have you tried a good herb vaporizer? I have the Air II from Arizer that I am writing a review for as we speak. Watch for it to publish soon, but it is the best vape I have used t date. Everything didn't like with other vapes, are not issues with this one.
- Thread starter
- #700
Third time wasn't the charm I was hoping for....
It's time to make more Carnival brownies, so I fired up the Instant Pot and set it for high pressure and 90 minutes. Then I dropped the pan into a hot oil bath to see how effective decarb was.
Turned on the flame at 4:53
At 5:00 it started to bubble.
The temp when bubbling started.
5:02
Still 5:02.
5:05
5:06
5:18
5:21 Gave it the last stir.
5:22 No more action after stirring a minute ago.
Although it still took 20 minutes to finish, the activity of decarboxylation was much less pronounced than previous tries. I got more decarb than previously, and definately enough for my brownie adventures.
The unstated goal is to get close to total decarb using only the Instant Pot, so I'll keep playing. I have a CBD Critical Cure coming down in about two weeks, and she'll be turned into FHO on harvest day, so I'll have an opportunity to see how effective using it without pot-in-pot will be. We have many members with disabilities that this method would benefit, if we can get the decarb more controlled.
As it is, it's still a potent medicine, without the hot oil bath. I want it understood that the only reason I persist with it is to fine-tune the process for someone who needed maximum decarb. In reality, I know this will be the unusual case, since a well-rounded cannabinoid presence would, IMO, be a better medicine. I'm mostly curious now.
It's time to make more Carnival brownies, so I fired up the Instant Pot and set it for high pressure and 90 minutes. Then I dropped the pan into a hot oil bath to see how effective decarb was.
Turned on the flame at 4:53
At 5:00 it started to bubble.
The temp when bubbling started.
5:02
Still 5:02.
5:05
5:06
5:18
5:21 Gave it the last stir.
5:22 No more action after stirring a minute ago.
Although it still took 20 minutes to finish, the activity of decarboxylation was much less pronounced than previous tries. I got more decarb than previously, and definately enough for my brownie adventures.
The unstated goal is to get close to total decarb using only the Instant Pot, so I'll keep playing. I have a CBD Critical Cure coming down in about two weeks, and she'll be turned into FHO on harvest day, so I'll have an opportunity to see how effective using it without pot-in-pot will be. We have many members with disabilities that this method would benefit, if we can get the decarb more controlled.
As it is, it's still a potent medicine, without the hot oil bath. I want it understood that the only reason I persist with it is to fine-tune the process for someone who needed maximum decarb. In reality, I know this will be the unusual case, since a well-rounded cannabinoid presence would, IMO, be a better medicine. I'm mostly curious now.