First Grow - 3x3' Tent - Soil - Mars 1200W LED

[ConstantGreen]

Hello! This is my first thread here and first time growing cannabis!

I like the community here, was drawn to it when I was doing research for my setup. The Mars Hydro LED's have a ton of support here. These next few months will be a test of my research, novice growing skills, and the Mars II 1200w; so this seems like the best place to share the journey. Hopefully you guys can help keep me growing in the right direction.

Strain: Iced Grapefruit, femaleseeds.nl
Indoor: 3'x3'x6' tent
Light: 1200w Mars Hydro II (18 ON / 6 OFF)
Soil: Fox Farm - Happy Frog
Nutes: Advanced Nutrients - Iguana Juice
(does that make it an organic grow?)

I've already made a few mistakes but finally feel caught up enough to call the grow officially started and begin a journal. So far I've spent $1177 in setup costs; more than I expected. But I chose better stuff than I expected so I'm very happy with the setup, I think it will pay off.

Cost	Equipment
$55	Seeds, 10 Iced Grapefruit
$100	Apollo 3x3' Tent
$12	Planks
$5	Jiffy pellets
$28	Yo-yo straps
$422	Mars 1200w LED
$86	Phresh filter 4"x12"
$76	Ventech 4" Inline w/ controller
$74	Tower fan 48"
$20	Timer
$10	Power strip
$24	Extension cords
$79	LED light balance glasses
$14	Snips
$17	Stool
$6	Nine pots 4"
$36	Nine pots 9"
$10	Happy Frog 12qt.
$42	Happy Frog 4cu.ft.
$17	Duct tape + clamps
$21	Insulated Ducting 4"x25'
$23	Iguana Juice - Grow 1qt.
$1177	Total

To be continued...

 

[ConstantGreen]

re: First Grow - MarsII 1200w In 3x3 - Soil

I'm starting this journal exactly 1 month after my seeds.

6/8/15: Germinated seeds in warm water + soaked paper towel
6/11: Planted in Jiffy pellets, placed on PC tower @ 85F
6/13: 10/10 seeds sprouted
6/19: Transplanted each to a 1qt. pot. Temps 70-75F, 50-60% RH. Under fluorescent shop lights
Some day in here I received the LED and put them under, @ 12" initially almost fried them w/o having fan setup yet.
6/26: Watered, raised LED to 18". Lights on = 82-86F, 40% RH. Off = 70F, 60% RH.
6/29: Watered, raised LED 1". 85-89F, 45% RH.

At this point all nine of my plants under the LED were one entire node ahead of the 10th plant that I left under fluorescents as a control. So the LED has power. I also started to notice discoloration and spotting on the leaves of the LED plants which I eventually identified as nute deficiency. I called foxfarm up and apparently Happy Frog soil has nutrients to last plants 2-3 weeks, then you want to start feeding. So the LED plants must have good appetites to have eaten all their nutes a week early!

Someone suggested Advanced Nutrients - Iguana Juice to me. It's an organic mix. I still haven't gotten a Cal/Mag supplement but I know that's important for LED grows. I'm also worried about pH lockout because I can't afford to calibrate my meter and I read water softeners can make water too salty. Thankfully Iguana Juice supposedly is "pH perfect" and will be 6.0 no matter what water you mix it into. So hopefully things improve. I also raised the light 3-4 inches to try and help their heat stress.

7/2: Watered with Iguana Juice 3ml / liter
7/4: Improvement on new leaves. Watered with 4ml / liter I.Juice

 

[ConstantGreen]

Re: First Grow - MarsII 1200w In 3x3 - Soil

I noticed roots showing out of the bottom holes of the quart pots a week or two ago, and they've become rootbound now. The nursery was closed all weekend for the holiday, poor babies. I finally got them transplanted into 9" square pots which I calculated to be about 3 gal. I used more happy frog soil, does anyone know if the new soil will supply all their nutrients for another couple weeks? Or should I continue feeding with Iguana Juice?

7/5: Topped above 6th node by snapping the baby growth off. Pruned lowest, damaged leaves.
7/7: Transplanted into 3 gal. pots of Happy Frog. Watered. The extra soil and water mass has finally balanced out the tent's day climate. 76-80F, 55% RH.

After transplant:

24 hours later:

That's all I have for now! I'd like some feedback on what you guys think so far of the plants and the setup. I think the plants are a little slow compared to other grows I've seen, but I understand I was a day late putting them under light, had them under fluoros for 2 weeks, didn't feed them for 3 weeks, heat stressed them and rootbound them. I'll be honest, I was more focused on the setup and didn't expect everything to be happening so fast. They grow like weeds and keep me busy trying to keep up, I love it.

This is the only space I have to grow so I'm trying to maximize it in every way. At 550 true watts, I'm hoping to hit that .5 mark of 225g. I've been trying to decide how many plants will take me there, or beyond. Originally I was thinking four plants, topped and LST'd out to fill the space. I have no doubts it would work because I've seen many videos of the LED blowing 4 plants up in that space. I ordered 10 seeds and thought I would just keep the best 4 phenotypes. But they all look pretty much even and now I don't want to kill any haha.

I already knew I wanted 3 gallon pots. I've heard 1 gallon per month and my strain is supposedly 90 days from germination to harvest. Also, I simply can't fit a 5 gallon pot through the entryway of my grow area, the tent is snugly assembled in a stealthy corner. Anyways, I was researching that average plants need 1-2 sq. ft. of space each, or as little as 6 inches for SoG. The tower fan I selected has a 1 foot square footprint. It seemed to make sense to fill up the rest of the square feet with 1 pot each. Am I crazy for thinking this? Maybe just OCD. I see how much 4 plants can fill a tent, will 8 become too overwhelming?

I understand Mars LED has penetration issues so if anyone can help advise me on how to best flower a 9 square foot space under them, looking for all tips! I'm thinking if I top them a couple times for 4 main tops, dividing the space into 6 square inches per cola, that would make a pretty sexy yield? This is a shorter strain, 3 feet expected. So I think it will be ideal for the LED's and the smaller pot size / sq. footage. I also feel it will be easier to learn on multiple, smaller plants so if I mess one up I could just grow out the others longer.

Thanks for reading, I hope to have more flattering pics to share with you all soon!

 

[Mars Hydro]

Hello Versai, thanks for sharing us your grow. Many growers here would love to offer you advices. The data of yesterday is quite good. It's better to control the temp within 80~85F and RH above 50% during veg. I have subscribed. Keep going.

 

[Richard Richardson]

Hi Versai, Your tent will get crowded soon, even without topping

The 90 days from seed to harvest depends on a short (21 day) veg.

Flowering time is important - 2 months or 8 weeks.

Maybe just let them settle into their new pots and flip to 12/12 in a few weeks?

 

[ConstantGreen]

Been waiting for the day I can say Hello, Sara! Glad you're here

And Hello, Richard. Thanks for the advice! I think I will do exactly that. I don't want to veg too long or I fear their yields will reduce from a too crowded canopy and becoming rootbound again. But I wish I had the experience to know when to flip them to 12/12 just by looking and predicting their mature sizes. I may need some help deciding around 21 days whether to let them go a few days longer or not.

What should my priorities be during these 21 days of veg to get them prepared for optimal flowering? As you've mentioned, I probably didn't even need to top and they'd still fill out. But since I already have, should I leave it be or start training them a certain way? Topping encouraged all the other branches to grow out too so now some of them have 6-10 branches. How should I treat them? Are the branches off the lowest couple nodes even worth growing? If I clipped them off, would it redirect resources into the apical tops? If so, should I get rid of them right now or wait until before flowering? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure I'm not wasting space or plant energy. I see how growing is like stone sculpting; I feel like Michelangelo trying to picture the finished shape.

Here's how they look today:

I watered them yesterday with 3ml/L Iguana Juice and 1.5ml/L Cal/Mag. There's been a lot of new, green growth since then. Which is a welcome sight because they were starting to look deficient again. Mostly yellowing between the veins. Temps are 75-80F, 50% RH. Starting to smell nice!

Now for the bad news. While watering them yesterday a measurement string I had taped to the side of the light got swept up into one of the LED's fans. I couldn't get the string out and the fan doesn't spin anymore, bummer... While researching the Mars I read of people easily replacing their fans with quieter ones. So I guess I'll just get a new fan and try to replace it myself. Would that void warranty, Sara? If preferable, I'd order a replacement fan through you guys. But I don't want to leave a corner of the panel un-cooled for long. I used an infrared thermometer to read the heat sink at the start, middle and end of the light cycle yesterday. The working corners stay around 88F while the broken corner is 96-104F. Does that sound dangerous? If I can replace the fan myself, what specs should I look for that would be best for the job?

Thanks everyone!

 

[PurpleGunRack]

Looks really nice
I think that setuo is gonna pay for itself in a grow or 2 if you whether you compare with street, coffeeshop or dispensary price.
If you want bigger pots that can go through a small gap you can use Smart Pot(or any pouch) or Air-Pot - they're flat before assembly.

Happy growing

 

[ConstantGreen]

If you want bigger pots that can go through a small gap you can use Smart Pot(or any pouch) or Air-Pot - they're flat before assembly.

Genius. Thanks for stopping in, man!

 

[ConstantGreen]

Hello everyone, could I get some help diagnosing these new discolorations on my plants?

This is the center plant and it has always looked more yellow and stressed than the others. The leaves are very narrow and taco'ing a bit like they are heat stressed but the leaf temp is 80F and RH is 50%. This one's soil also feels more wet than its neighbors for some reason. The light is 16" away.

Some of the other plants have this yellowing between the veins on middle-tier fan leaves. There's also a small amount of brown spots or speckling.

Here's a good image of probably the most severe yellowing on one of the plants. The veins are still green and very distinct. I think this has all appeared in the past 3 days since last feeding them.

Otherwise, they're all still looking very healthy and more green in general. A few of the plants are not showing any signs of discoloration or stress. They have all stretched a bit though. Internodes used to be about a centimeter, now they're a little over an inch. On July 12 I fed them all the same 2 liters of water with 6ml Iguana Juice and 3ml cal/mag.

What do these issues look like to more experienced eyes? I got some color strips to test the pH of my nute solution and it seemed to be a little high, 7.5 perhaps. I suspect that may be the issue. I was kind of hoping the happy frog soil would help buffer it. But I already picked up bottles of pH-up/down for the next watering.

Thank you for the help!

 

[Mars Hydro]

Hi Versai, have you solved the problem of the fans? You can send me an email regarding this issue. I will help you. I don't want the fan's problem to affect your grow. For the discoloration, you'd better to hang the light a little bit higher. We recommend18"~24" for the veg period and PH is supposed to be 6~6.5.

 

[Happy Hemper]

Welcome to the community. It looks like you have the goods to get off to a good start and the good people here will certainly help get you to your goal.

 

[ConstantGreen]

Thanks Sara, sent an email to info@mars-hydro.com.

Thanks for the welcome, Hemper

 

[Richard Richardson]

Hi Versai,

You are overfeeding your plants and the light is much too low. This is why the center plant is so stressed out.

Hang the light high and let the plants grow up to it, I recommend the higher end of Sara's scale (24")

You are using fresh soil and do not need anything for now except some cal-mag in properly pH'd water.

Use a tape measure to check the approximate LED height when hanging it, no need for string

 

[ConstantGreen]

Ok, thanks Richard! Do you have a moment to explain how I can spot overfeeding for myself? I guess I should have followed my instinct that the soil would supply ample nutrients for a couple weeks. But is it the yellowing tips or brown spots or something that tells you it's overfeeding? Or is the yellowing tips evidence of the light being too close? I need to learn this stuff so I don't always rely on other's answers

 

[Happy Hemper]

I have a couple of links in my sig. that should help.
Have fun and keep it green.

 

[ConstantGreen]

Ok, after reviewing that plant abuse chart and a couple other deficiency pictorials, my personal diagnosis is that it's deficient due to pH lockout; specifically of Zinc, Iron and possibly Manganese. The center plant looking all pale I think especially appears iron deficient. The pics for those 3 micro nute deficiency are the closest matches to what my plants are showing anyway, and they would get locked out at the pH I've been watering at, so I guess that must be it. I don't think they're overfed, which is why I'd like Richard to convince me more.

"Zinc Deficiencies:
Deficiencies appear as chlorosis in the inter-veinal areas of new leaves producing a banding appearance as seen in figure 18. This may be accompany reduction of leaf size and a shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled. Branch terminals of fruit will die back in severe cases.

Also gets locked out due to high pH. Zn, Fe, and Mn deficiencies often occur together, and are usually from a high pH. Don't overdo the micro-nutrients, lower the pH if that's the problem so the nutrients become available. Foliar feed if the plant looks real bad."

---

I raised the light to 19" above the tallest plant. They're all 10-12" high now. Climate has been the same. Going to water tomorrow at 6.5 pH but can't decide whether to water with nutes.

I've been bending the top branches a bit to help thicken them up. They all recovered and pop back up except for the stressed center one. I may even start tying branches down with some garden wire to help keep the tops level and spread out. But I'm not trying to train for more tops at this point. I have the two main ones, and two off each node below it for a total of 12 tops per plant at the moment. I'm thinking of cutting off the bottom two or three nodes though, to focus the resources into just 6-8 tops. How does this sound?

Here's how they look today:

All tucked in for the night. Should I also trim off some of the fan leaves blocking branches?

I think another question I need to address is whether I should flower sooner than 13 days from now. The plants are already touching and I imagine could fill out the remaining space during the pre-flower stretch, especially if I tie them toward the gaps.

 

[ConstantGreen]

Any last minute advice before I go pruning off bottom nodes and fan leaves, watering and tying down? This feels like a big day for them decision wise and I don't want to screw it up. Please give me some encouragement, warnings or advice for another plan.

 

[ConstantGreen]

This morning I pruned off the first and third nodes on all the plants, and also the second on a couple. I was surprised to see the 2nd nodes stronger and longer than the third. Is that normal? They looked so good on a few of them I didn't want to take them. I was also a little worried about taking too much off at once, some rule about 20% max. Because of that I also didn't prune any fan leaves, just tucked them under for now.

After pruning, I watered 2 liters each, 1.5ml/L CalMag, 2.5ml/L blackstrap molasses. I also pH'd the solution to ~6.3 on a test strip.

After watering I spread out the remaining branches and tied them down to the rim of the pot with garden wire. Now most plants have 8 "tops", two have 6, and one has 7 (snapped one). The plants were about 11" tall but are now all about 8"

My main motivation for doing all this was to eliminate the lowest branches that would be crowded, shaded and producing popcorn buds. I read that focusing the plant's energy into 4-8 tops will make those tops larger, denser, more substantial in general. I think it would especially apply to LED lighting where you want to maximize the canopy and minimize the depth. I'm still thinking about taking the 2nd node off the rest of the plants in a week. I just need to figure out whether six tops are enough or if eight are too many for my size plants, etc.

After tying down:

12 Hours later:

I'm a little disappointed I haven't gotten more feedback. A big thank you to those of you who've spared a moment to drop a tip. Any feedback is welcome and appreciated.

 

[ConstantGreen]

Are six tops enough? I'd leave on eight but would it become too crowded?

 

[ConstantGreen]

Woah, sea of green achieved:

Should I prune the fan leaves and a couple more branches? Or flip them to flower?
When do I release them from their LST ties?

I shifted the plants around, but the center one is yellowing again.
Does it look like a sulfur deficiency?
-Yellowing from inside-out on younger leaves
-Purple stems
-Woody base
-Previously high pH

Light is 24" above.