Fox Farm Ocean Forest As Is? Or Need To Add To It?

McBudz

McBudz

Well-Known Member
Nug of the Month
October 2008
Heading to the hydro store again. Picking up Ocean Forest soil. Question is should I use it straight from the bag as is or would it help to add amendments to it as well such as more peet, perlite, dolomitic lime, guano, fish or kelp meal, greensand etc?

Also is this the best soil to go with or am I better off with pro-mix are any other flavor of FF? I've seen some grows on here with FF Ocean Forest and have not heard any complaints.

Basically starting over with some new plants and applying my lessons learned. I want to make sure I do everything right this time.

Thanks :rollit:
 
I had a lot of issues due to FF. I made the change to sunshine #4 Mix amazing and not as high of a runoff as Pro... W/ Pro the runoff straight out of the bag w/ out any salt build ups is 7+++... Now with the Sunshine #4 Awsome shit... FF you experience a lot of issues if you like going hard w/ nutes I spoke to the head of HF and they are aware it is LOCK OUT not defeciencys... Yet all people try to treat it as though it is... IMO for the money if you are going w/ supp NUTES and dont want problems do not use FFOF... Other people sware by it and just deal w/ the early issues...

Well anyway Good Luck GL!
 
GreenLeaf-420 said:
I had a lot of issues due to FF. I made the change to sunshine #4 Mix amazing and not as high of a runoff as Pro... W/ Pro the runoff straight out of the bag w/ out any salt build ups is 7+++... Now with the Sunshine #4 Awsome shit... FF you experience a lot of issues if you like going hard w/ nutes I spoke to the head of HF and they are aware it is LOCK OUT not defeciencys... Yet all people try to treat it as though it is... IMO for the money if you are going w/ supp NUTES and dont want problems do not use FFOF... Other people sware by it and just deal w/ the early issues...

Well anyway Good Luck GL!
Click to expand...

What kind of issues? Are you saying FFOF causes lockout due to salt buildups from heavy nutrient use or pH? FF advertises there soil at 6.3 to 6.8 which I thought was optimal for nute intake.
 
The OF by itself can get a bit dense/heavy, and stay wet for some time after a thorough watering. You will get use to the needed watering cycle if using right out of the bag, like you get used to anything else used regularly.
If you want to lighten the mix, use the FF Light Warrior. I mix 2 or 2.5 parts OF to 1 part of LW with great results. The plants love it, probably the extra oxygen available to it.
 
BlackThumb said:
The OF by itself can get a bit dense/heavy, and stay wet for some time after a thorough watering. You will get use to the needed watering cycle if using right out of the bag, like you get used to anything else used regularly.
If you want to lighten the mix, use the FF Light Warrior. I mix 2 or 2.5 parts OF to 1 part of LW with great results. The plants love it, probably the extra oxygen available to it.
Click to expand...

Interesting... Thanks for the advice
 
^My great pleasure to assist where possible to get your 2nd grow off to a great start.

I also concur with DMan above that any lockout is surly more of a function of the nute solution you are pouring into the OF rather than the soil medium itself. I have never experienced anything like the problems stated above unless going hot with nutes.

I run my hydro at 5.8ph and the soils at 6.3ph without issues. Well, dirt issues anyway, I still do stupid stuff. You hit that one on the head as well by applying what you experienced during grow #1. Amazing how quickly you recall personal mistakes over simply reading about others isn't it!

OK, you got your ammo, so run to the store to get your dirt and stick those seeds in there. We are now waiting for photos. :)
 
BlackThumb said:
^My great pleasure to assist where possible to get your 2nd grow off to a great start.

I also concur with DMan above that any lockout is surly more of a function of the nute solution you are pouring into the OF rather than the soil medium itself. I have never experienced anything like the problems stated above unless going hot with nutes.

I run my hydro at 5.8ph and the soils at 6.3ph without issues. Well, dirt issues anyway, I still do stupid stuff. You hit that one on the head as well by applying what you experienced during grow #1. Amazing how quickly you recall personal mistakes over simply reading about others isn't it!

OK, you got your ammo, so run to the store to get your dirt and stick those seeds in there. We are now waiting for photos. :)
Click to expand...


Got 5 white widows and 3 Northern Light/ BigBuds in some rock wool as we speak :) They will be planted straight into the OF. Thanks bro. Some bud closeup picks going up on my journel in a few minutes.
 
Awesome, we'll be checking them out.
I assume that this will be your 1st attempt to grow a White strain. Be prepared for some fussy little buggers. They want what they want when they want it, you only need serve on demand as you figure out the need. They are not patient plants. I know most seed banks list them as Easy-Medium in the difficulty scale, but based on my experience, I would start at Medium. Perhaps yours will go better as we still must factor in my stupid in the formula.
Kind of watch that and let us know how you would compare as grow completes.
Looking forward to it now Bro. Best of luck.
 
BlackThumb said:
Awesome, we'll be checking them out.
I assume that this will be your 1st attempt to grow a White strain. Be prepared for some fussy little buggers. They want what they want when they want it, you only need serve on demand as you figure out the need. They are not patient plants. I know most seed banks list them as Easy-Medium in the difficulty scale, but based on my experience, I would start at Medium. Perhaps yours will go better as we still must factor in my stupid in the formula.
Kind of watch that and let us know how you would compare as grow completes.
Looking forward to it now Bro. Best of luck.
Click to expand...

My first white. And I have plenty of my own stupid to factor in, just hopefully not as much that I put into my last/current crow. I wouldn't call it a failure though if I can take something from the experience and apply it the the next.
 
There is a certain beautiful simplicity in this. And this is the EXACT reason I keep a trusty bottle of Algoflash or GH Micro around. Micronute foliar feeds ftw! They buy you time to discover the PROBLEM while you treat the SYMPTOMS.
I no longer use FoxFarm because of the lockouts I was getting at normal application rates. I think that if you use it, you should get on a feeding schedule that includes a HEAVY watering every couple weeks with pH adjusted plain water to runoff, checking the pH of the runoff afterwards.

You know that FoxFarms is not OMRI certified, right? It's organic based, but not technically organic.
Along those lines, Botanicare Pure Blend Pro is also organic-based. I find it easier to work with, as you are more likely to get DEFICIENCIES than lockouts, and those are easy to treat.

I know some people do okay with FF, but how much saved money is worth the headache of sick plants?


I was running a nice commercial set up 100+ Plants some SOG and others in 5 Gallons... Does anyone know of anyone using FFOF for commercial growing? I just can not see spending all that money to purchase soil that needs to be washed out till balanced...

I know so many people using it on smaller levels can stand by the product and can make it work...

I'm not knocking it I just do not beleive in the products... That's just MO...

Good Luck to all

GL1
 
^Mc, It clearly was not a failure and you are to be commended for that determined 10 seconds in which you actually decided to stand up from the monitor, get you a pot, poured in the dirt and boldly shoved that first seed in. It is to only be considered the beginning of your learning curve with that strain, in that environment. You just hold on to that feeling you had after doing the above when you sat on the couch in front of the TV, but actually staring at the floor wondering what the hell you just did and running through the possibilities. If you have any of that excitement and curiosity left, you just boldly plop #2 in there and go on learning. The learning never stops until you quit growing or die. WhoooHoo, #2's in the dirt baby!

^GL, It is going to mostly boil down to you finding and using what works for you, your growing techniques, your environment, your nutes etc..etc. I grow hydro and soil both using the same AN nutes, and have never experienced lockout or the need to flush anything. Clearly something in your scenario was not cooperating with one another.
It's just as difficult to claim it's the soil considering how many tons are out there right now supporting thriving plants by individual growers. Total all these individuals up and it would simply dwarf any commercial op. I do know some guys running considerable pots which I personally do consider commercial size, even if they don't. They keep a lot of OF/LW on hand for some stunning plants all by themselves. The nutes they use are far more advanced than me in the sense that they mix their own like you will see some of the advanced growers on this site doing. I am not good at pulling stuff out of the kitchen cabinet and whipping up some nute additive or another. I just feed them canned nute on a routine which is a compromise between my needs and theirs.
If Pure Blend is working for you in your scenario, run with it.
 
GreenLeaf-420 said:
There is a certain beautiful simplicity in this. And this is the EXACT reason I keep a trusty bottle of Algoflash or GH Micro around. Micronute foliar feeds ftw! They buy you time to discover the PROBLEM while you treat the SYMPTOMS.
I no longer use FoxFarm because of the lockouts I was getting at normal application rates. I think that if you use it, you should get on a feeding schedule that includes a HEAVY watering every couple weeks with pH adjusted plain water to runoff, checking the pH of the runoff afterwards.

You know that FoxFarms is not OMRI certified, right? It's organic based, but not technically organic.
Along those lines, Botanicare Pure Blend Pro is also organic-based. I find it easier to work with, as you are more likely to get DEFICIENCIES than lockouts, and those are easy to treat.

I know some people do okay with FF, but how much saved money is worth the headache of sick plants?


I was running a nice commercial set up 100+ Plants some SOG and others in 5 Gallons... Does anyone know of anyone using FFOF for commercial growing? I just can not see spending all that money to purchase soil that needs to be washed out till balanced...

I know so many people using it on smaller levels can stand by the product and can make it work...

I'm not knocking it I just do not beleive in the products... That's just MO...

Good Luck to all

GL1
Click to expand...

I appreciate the input. However I already have a few bags of FFOF on hand now. I will keep the lockout possibilty in mind. I know its not omri cert. I wasn't going for a straight organic although I may down the road. :peace:
 
BlackThumb said:
^GL, It is going to mostly boil down to you finding and using what works for you, your growing techniques, your environment, your nutes etc..etc. Clearly something in your scenario was not cooperating with one another.
It's just as difficult to claim it's the soil considering how many tons are out there right now supporting thriving plants by individual growers.

While I was experiencing these issues... I contacted a Regional Rep from Hydro Farm that's a friend her name is Cathy... After talking w/ Cathy this is a known fact that there is issues due to LOCKOUT w/ FFOF but they have not yet addressed it to the public and have made no changes... Look if this is working good for you and your happy I am very happy for you... If you are thinking of using it I just would like to share my issues w/ it...

They say not to add any Nitrogen... Here it is from their site "Garden tip: Perfect for containers and ready to use right out of the bag. Ocean Forest® is pH adjusted at 6.3 to 6.8 to allow for optimum fertilizer uptake. There's no need for nitrogen fertilizers at first; instead try an organic blend like Fox Farm Big Bloom Liquid Plant Food to encourage strong branching and a sturdy, healthy growth habit."

Now I have done my own mixes w/ the whole Lime,Worm Castings,Perlite and lots of other good old additives which worked well and still was costly... So I was interested in trying the FFOF so I did go way over board buying 10+ bags and potting up fresh cuts, Mom's and others in Veg for over 3 months and they all experienced the same dam issues... Yellowing fan (BURNED TIPS) leaves which took 2 weeks + to correct w/ lots of flushes... The PH levels were very high 7.2 + so I tried to correct it by slowly brining down the PH with straight H2O. I tried going slow w/ a 6.3-6.5PH adjusted flush. I even went out and bought a really expensive PH tester to be sure what was taken place was correct... They were all in a sealed room optimal Temps CO2 ect... Finally I blasted them w/ a low low adjustment of PHd water 2.8. They all lasted and some went through more harder times then others... Yet after that no more issues w/ the soil... Look at what it took though I had to wash out all the "GOOD SHIT" and to me that was not good for the Price...

Well anyway to correct the Lockout I added the hydrozyme which I swore by now after using for that issue I run it all the time... The shit is great for Hydro or for Soil... W/ soil you will be able to get better results w/o any build ups...

To get the soil more conditioned I have been using Mothers Earth Tea and as far as the soil I went to Sunshine #4 mix which is absolutely amazing... No issues and plants are very very happy... So am I and I'm not looking to push any items but if you are having any soil issues or are considering a switch try a bail... It only cost me $39 bucks... The stuff is on the 1st or 2nd page of HF magazine... I am a fanatic and always look to make things better... After making my own mixes buying others I think I finally found the best mix that works for Cannabis w/o having to go nuts...

Well good Luck to All GL1
Click to expand...
 
GreenLeaf-420 said:
BlackThumb said:
^GL, It is going to mostly boil down to you finding and using what works for you, your growing techniques, your environment, your nutes etc..etc. Clearly something in your scenario was not cooperating with one another.
It's just as difficult to claim it's the soil considering how many tons are out there right now supporting thriving plants by individual growers.

While I was experiencing these issues... I contacted a Regional Rep from Hydro Farm that's a friend her name is Cathy... After talking w/ Cathy this is a known fact that there is issues due to LOCKOUT w/ FFOF but they have not yet addressed it to the public and have made no changes... Look if this is working good for you and your happy I am very happy for you... If you are thinking of using it I just would like to share my issues w/ it...

They say not to add any Nitrogen... Here it is from their site "Garden tip: Perfect for containers and ready to use right out of the bag. Ocean Forest® is pH adjusted at 6.3 to 6.8 to allow for optimum fertilizer uptake. There's no need for nitrogen fertilizers at first; instead try an organic blend like Fox Farm Big Bloom Liquid Plant Food to encourage strong branching and a sturdy, healthy growth habit."

Now I have done my own mixes w/ the whole Lime,Worm Castings,Perlite and lots of other good old additives which worked well and still was costly... So I was interested in trying the FFOF so I did go way over board buying 10+ bags and potting up fresh cuts, Mom's and others in Veg for over 3 months and they all experienced the same dam issues... Yellowing fan (BURNED TIPS) leaves which took 2 weeks + to correct w/ lots of flushes... The PH levels were very high 7.2 + so I tried to correct it by slowly brining down the PH with straight H2O. I tried going slow w/ a 6.3-6.5PH adjusted flush. I even went out and bought a really expensive PH tester to be sure what was taken place was correct... They were all in a sealed room optimal Temps CO2 ect... Finally I blasted them w/ a low low adjustment of PHd water 2.8. They all lasted and some went through more harder times then others... Yet after that no more issues w/ the soil... Look at what it took though I had to wash out all the "GOOD SHIT" and to me that was not good for the Price...

Well anyway to correct the Lockout I added the hydrozyme which I swore by now after using for that issue I run it all the time... The shit is great for Hydro or for Soil... W/ soil you will be able to get better results w/o any build ups...

To get the soil more conditioned I have been using Mothers Earth Tea and as far as the soil I went to Sunshine #4 mix which is absolutely amazing... No issues and plants are very very happy... So am I and I'm not looking to push any items but if you are having any soil issues or are considering a switch try a bail... It only cost me $39 bucks... The stuff is on the 1st or 2nd page of HF magazine... I am a fanatic and always look to make things better... After making my own mixes buying others I think I finally found the best mix that works for Cannabis w/o having to go nuts...

Well good Luck to All GL1
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. I tested the runoff off fresh OF and it was 6.4 and that was with tap coming out at 7.4. I will follow FF recommendation as use only Big Bloom for a while.
Click to expand...
 
Yea Green, sounds like you use a bunch more stuff than I do for sure. I am generally mixing up 1 gallon jugs every other day for the dirties. I roughly throw in the OEM indicated amounts by the tsp, (anywhere from 2-4tsp depending on component), while targeting the desired ppm for plant stage, and that's it. I use no other supplement unless an occasional sea tea, but rarely even that.
I say that just to indicate that sometimes I'm light, right on, or hot on the AN nutes. None of these have ever hit any kind of threshold on the soil causing your described blights. I rarely even measure runoff any more unless somethings up, as it is so constant. I guess you could say that the AN at most levels is OK with the OC/LW, while your particular nute routine was not. In my scenario, I also have very stable H2O from a 6 stage that I am very used to, hardly worth measuring it any more either being like the previous hundred times.
Back to the age old individual scenarios again. To alter your plants environment in that scenario you could alter nute levels/content, keep the nute and change the soil, or keep the soil and change the nutes. I believe you said you started hot, but then backed down to published dose while trying to figure the problem. Sounds like you hit your combo change on your first couple of shots, so did OK considering you don't know the answer when you first walk up on a problem like that.
I'll see another couple of DFW grower buddies this weekend who are small like me at only 6-10 going at a time, and ask what they are using for nutes as I do know they both use OF/LW without issues. One uses either the GH or Botan., not real sure, and no clue on the other guy.
Did you name the nute you had the problems with specifically, or is it to complicated with additives and such? I was just looking for a base system or something without listing a bunch of lime, worms and such.
 

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