Excess or deficiency? Please, give your advice

[suetah]

Hey fellas! Any help is appreciated much!

So this is my plant, Moby Dick Feminized from Dinafem. It's in 44 day of 70 of bloom.
It's a single plant in 30L DWC under ~650w (pure power consumption) handmade LED. I am using AN fertilizers (no hate pls).

As you see, bloom is going really bad for me.

The plant was Topped and SCROG was applied.
Also I did Schwazzing twice. First was just before the 12/12 flip and second one on 21st day of bloom.
The plant recovered perfectly with a fast grow after the first Schwazzing but than the blooming like halted after the second Schwazz and leaf problems appeared.
Also, during the middle of the bloom weeks PPM was about 900, which seems like ok or even too small for such a big plant. So this fact also confuses me when thinking about the nuteburn.

So, I am trying to figure out several questions:

• Main one: According to leaf condition, is it an Excess or Deficiency? I thought that it could look like Potassium deficiency, but than read that Nitrogen exсess causes deficiency of some other elements. Also mine fertilizers don't seem to lack any of the macro and micro elements.
• Could this halted blooming be somehow connected with Schwazzing? But I think I didn't remove too much foliage during the second Schwazzing.
• Or this halted blooming is caused by this handmade LED panels, which I bought from one kind of handmade LED producer. But he was having great results with these panels on Tomato grow. And I had better results with HPS even with stronger nuteburn and etc.

Thank you for reading! <3

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• suetah
• Aug 16, 2019

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• suetah
• Aug 16, 2019

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• suetah
• Aug 16, 2019

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• suetah
• Aug 16, 2019

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• suetah
• Aug 16, 2019

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• suetah
• Aug 16, 2019

 

[TorturedSoul]

What pH are you mixing your nutrient solution to? And what's happening to that and your EC (or "ppm")? Rising, slowly falling, dropping like a stone, et cetera?

 

[suetah]

What pH are you mixing your nutrient solution to? And what's happening to that and your EC (or "ppm")? Rising, slowly falling, dropping like a stone, et cetera?

Thank you for replying!

So, as I am using "Ph Perfect" AN line, it makes Ph like 5.7 always, so I am not checking it often. I am using water from RO filter only. About PPM, she was eating well during the first weeks of flowering, so I was slightly increasing PPM from 900 till 1100 as maximum, and it was not fluctuating hard. But on week 4th and 5th these leaf problems started to occur and she began to eat less, and PPM rose to 1300.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Even if you don't intend to adjust your pH regularly, it's still a good idea to monitor it. That, along with EC (and rate of water consumption) can tell you a lot about your plant's health. There are charts showing the various possible combinations of these three things and what each (set) means that have been reposted approximately 420,420,420 (lol) times on every cannabis-related forum in the universe, including this one. Unfortunately, I'm currently accessing via my cell phone instead of the laptop, so I cannot throw you a link to one of them at this time. Hopefully, you'll be able to find one. I think @Rifleman has posted such things a few times; maybe he'll see my "page" and won't mind doing so again. IDK.

I'm going to leave specific diagnosis to someone who has better than 20:120 vision in their good eye. But knowing why something happened can be as important as knowing what happened - and resources like the chart I mentioned can be instrumental in figuring such things out.

Good luck with your plant. I hope you are able to discern what the issue is, correct it, and make the change or changes necessary to ensure that it does not occur again.

 

[DthPch78]

Its hard to tell under the lighting i see the dots on your leaves just cant see the color very well
If the dots are white it could be spider mites and they would explain the deficiencies
I always look under the leaves that are affected with a flashlight they are small but i can see em without a magnifier

 

[suetah]

Even if you don't intend to adjust your pH regularly, it's still a good idea to monitor it. That, along with EC (and rate of water consumption) can tell you a lot about your plant's health. There are charts showing the various possible combinations of these three things and what each (set) means that have been reposted approximately 420,420,420 (lol) times on every cannabis-related forum in the universe, including this one. Unfortunately, I'm currently accessing via my cell phone instead of the laptop, so I cannot throw you a link to one of them at this time. Hopefully, you'll be able to find one. I think @Rifleman has posted such things a few times; maybe he'll see my "page" and won't mind doing so again. IDK.

I'm going to leave specific diagnosis to someone who has better than 20:120 vision in their good eye. But knowing why something happened can be as important as knowing what happened - and resources like the chart I mentioned can be instrumental in figuring such things out.

Good luck with your plant. I hope you are able to discern what the issue is, correct it, and make the change or changes necessary to ensure that it does not occur again.

I will find this table about water consumption and EC, thank you. But she was stable consuming 4-5 littres (1 gallon) a day and EC was stable also. And than consumption had slowed and EC risen.

Also with that Ph Perfect line, you are not able to change Ph at all, because it will always bring the value back to that default which is "programmed" in the fertilizer.

But, does it look like 'overdose' at all or more like deficiency?

 

[Nunyabiz]

That "looks" like a potassium deficiency, however it's hard to believe it's a deficiency with nutrients you're feeding it.
So more like something locking out potassium like a pH issue, or dry soil, or temp is too hot for extended periods.

 

[suetah]

Its hard to tell under the lighting i see the dots on your leaves just cant see the color very well
If the dots are white it could be spider mites and they would explain the deficiencies
I always look under the leaves that are affected with a flashlight they are small but i can see em without a magnifier

Here is the better photo. So dots are Yellow. But it all began from just tips and than the whole margins of leaf having like nuteburn or something..

About spiders, I am growing indoors in DWC and there weren't any pests or spiders ever detected. Have just checked under the leaf to be sure.

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• suetah
• Aug 16, 2019

 

[suetah]

That "looks" like a potassium deficiency, however it's hard to believe it's a deficiency with nutrients you're feeding it.
So more like something locking out potassium like a pH issue, or dry soil, or temp is too hot for extended periods.

I am using DWC, so you mean temp of the air too hot? But temperature is ideal, like 23 C or 73 F average. Water also is cool.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I am using DWC, so you mean temp of the air too hot? But temperature is ideal, like 23 C or 73 F average. Water also is cool.

Ahh, didn't notice DWC, I got no idea about that other than seems like most problems revolve around root issues.

 

[suetah]

Ahh, didn't notice DWC, I got no idea about that other than seems like most problems revolve around root issues.

I see! But if you take a look at leaf photo above, would you say that the green is too dark, like a Nitrogen overdose? Or this green is ok?

 

[Nunyabiz]

I see! But if you take a look at leaf photo above, would you say that the green is too dark, like a Nitrogen overdose? Or this green is ok?

Looks fine color wise, although most hydro grown plants I've seen always seem to be lighter in color because hydro is usually is low in silica.

A nitrogen toxicity the leaves would be clawing.

 

[suetah]

I see!

Thank you very much, man! <3

 

[Barney86]

Heya buddy, can see youve got some different opinions already but ive spotted what the rest didnt.
Looks like a deficiency, well, it is a deficiency but its not from lack of nutes.
Your ph is waay too low for bloom. Should be going in at 6.3-6.5.
Someone said there that you cant ph those nutes and that theyll always be at the right level for you. Thats unfortunately entirely wrong. This is res growing, not soil. You 100% need to control the ph pr things like this happen.

The idea with the ppm, is that you want to keep it just dropping from day to day. That shows you the plant is feeding. It also means that the ph will behave as its supposed to.

As your in bloom the ph wants to drop. Its partly to do with root secretions and partly to do with the nutes concentration. This drop, is the reason ypu go in with the higher ph. It drops as the plant feeds and when it hits 5.5-5.7 you bring it back up by adding nutes of a higher ph to average it out.

Someone will no doubt try to question all of that because theyve seen one of these how to feed hydro charts. Please dont look at those. Every single one of them says that ph is meant to rise in bloom and it isnt. Otherwise nute companies wouldnt call their ph up "ph bloom"

If there was a sweet spot where you realised the ppm was dropping a little as the water level goes down then go back to that dose and up the ph to 6.5.
Wont fix the knackered leaves but will get you back to optimum res conditions

 

[TysonOG]

Damn, Barney beat me to it. pH for sure. I'm in DWC and my pH drops throughout the week in flower. If you're starting at 5.7, I bet after 3-4 days, its around 5-5.2. I don't hate on AN, but I have heard not so great things about the pH perfect line specifically.

 

[Barney86]

Damn, Barney beat me to it. pH for sure. I'm in DWC and my pH drops throughout the week in flower. If you're starting at 5.7, I bet after 3-4 days, its around 5-5.2. I don't hate on AN, but I have heard not so great things about the pH perfect line specifically.

Yeah im an early riser mate. Gotta be fast to catch me lol.
Id never use ph perfect nutes. Ph isnt supposed to be perfect in hydro. Its ment to drift from one end to the other so id be freaking if it stayed stable. An unmoving ph says to me that iether the plant has stopped feeding or the mix is well off. Usually the latter causing the first.

 

[TysonOG]

An unmoving ph says to me that iether the plant has stopped feeding or the mix is well off. Usually the latter causing the first.

Exactly. I let my pH slide from 5.6-6.0 in veg and 5.8-6.3 in flower. I change nutes every 7-8 days. my pH moves almost daily and I only have 1 plant in 10 gallons of solution. She's a monster tho.

 

[Barney86]

Exactly. I let my pH slide from 5.6-6.0 in veg and 5.8-6.3 in flower. I change nutes every 7-8 days. my pH moves almost daily and I only have 1 plant in 10 gallons of solution. She's a monster tho.

Yup, same way i do it mate. Havent grown any big ones for a while though. My res are only 20L and they drink 15-17 litres a day so it gets a bit arse twitching lol.

 

[suetah]

Heya buddy, can see youve got some different opinions already but ive spotted what the rest didnt.
Looks like a deficiency, well, it is a deficiency but its not from lack of nutes.
Your ph is waay too low for bloom. Should be going in at 6.3-6.5.
Someone said there that you cant ph those nutes and that theyll always be at the right level for you. Thats unfortunately entirely wrong. This is res growing, not soil. You 100% need to control the ph pr things like this happen.

The idea with the ppm, is that you want to keep it just dropping from day to day. That shows you the plant is feeding. It also means that the ph will behave as its supposed to.

As your in bloom the ph wants to drop. Its partly to do with root secretions and partly to do with the nutes concentration. This drop, is the reason ypu go in with the higher ph. It drops as the plant feeds and when it hits 5.5-5.7 you bring it back up by adding nutes of a higher ph to average it out.

Someone will no doubt try to question all of that because theyve seen one of these how to feed hydro charts. Please dont look at those. Every single one of them says that ph is meant to rise in bloom and it isnt. Otherwise nute companies wouldnt call their ph up "ph bloom"

If there was a sweet spot where you realised the ppm was dropping a little as the water level goes down then go back to that dose and up the ph to 6.5.
Wont fix the knackered leaves but will get you back to optimum res conditions

Sir Barney86, please accept my boundless gratitude! That's the piece of puzzle I was searching so badly. Thank you for the detailed answer which contains the essence of the experienced knowledge.

Exactly. I let my pH slide from 5.6-6.0 in veg and 5.8-6.3 in flower. I change nutes every 7-8 days. my pH moves almost daily and I only have 1 plant in 10 gallons of solution. She's a monster tho.

Sir TysonOG, much obliged too! Thank you for the additional figures and for spreading the info about AN pH perfect line.


I am so glad you came, gentlemen!

Now right back to the nutes store! One love!

 

[suetah]

@Barney86 @TysonOG

From AN site:

How Does pH Perfect Technology Work?

The general answer is that pH Perfect Technology is a proprietary system, so the exact details cannot be shared with the public at this time.

However, Michael Straumietis, the founder and CEO of Advanced Nutrients has graciously shared detailed information about how the technology works …

First, the technology uses its proprietary and primary mechanism to quickly bring the nutrient solution into the “sweet spot” for growing–which is 5.5 to 6.3 pH (usually holding it at a rock-solid 5.6 pH). And it is able to do this across a wide range of pH ranges

So, if they say that their technology holds "rock-solid" 5.6 pH, doesn't it mean that their nutes are not completely suitable for DWC growing?