Epsom Salt, Magnesium Def and lower pH?

[Remystemple]

Found the following thread here while reading about the use of Epsom Salts. The reason i'm bringing it here is that this guy is saying that in hydro or coco or peat whatever, the pH should be allowed to go as low as 5.0 and is why there's so many of these Magnesium deficiencies, because of all the info out there saying to pH at 5.5 - 6.5.

Again. Not my thread nor did i write this. I'd like to hear some takes on this from some of the folks from this forum. you are the best after all...

Epsom Salt dosage rates

Theoneandonly Z said: ↑

I found a good article, almost started a new thread... but i decided to use SEARCH BOX:couchpotato:

Gardening with Epsom Salt | SaltWorks®​

Well, good is always subjective. What I see there is a good sales page for Ultra Epsom Salts. I'm not singling you out, as I think Cal/Mag and epsom salts to be overused, period. Over the years, most of the Ca and Mg issues I have seen in weed forum Infirmaries, are tied to something other than a lack of enough Ca or Mg in the nutes. Like rootzone pH issues, failure to water appropriately, nutritional elements in the wrong proportions (cation competition) and often combined with the use of tap water. Further, peat/perlite/vermiculite (what most 'dirt' farmers use) is NOT soil, leading to confusion on the 'right' pH range for MJ.

In hydro, not letting your res play from 5.1-2 to about 6.2, or so, can create issues for things like Ca and Mg uptake. With Mg, specifically, uptake sucks between about 5.5 and 6.0. It is a much more efficient process between 5.0-5.5. So, running hydro (any hydro, including RDWC) or a peat/per/ver (with a good 10-15% runoff) and forcing the pH to always be above 5.6, well, big effin surprise you are trying to foliar feed epsom or add it to your regime, 'cause yer girls seem Mg def. To compensate for a limited pH, people start having to mix and match disproportionate nutrients that then perform like shit if outside that limited pH range. Or even on different strains.

MJ plants are not Mg or Ca whores. Rather, they are often grown under the conditions I describe in this post, with resulting Ca or Mg deficiencies occurring, with most usually the wrong thing being done. Instead of actually fixing the problem, people start using foliar feed band-aids or more bottles of nute or bags of salt.

Never really fixing the condition (like wrong or limited pH range), or even understanding what the actual problem is ...

Having RO water does not mean you must add Cal/Mag, either. What makes one 'must' add it, is a deficient base (Macro/Secondary/Micro) nutrient regime, like, say, Botanicare's Pure Blend Pro. I have seen a lot of N toxicities in gardens of Cal/Mag users. A lot.

But, like a other things (e.g. WRONG pH range for hydro and peat/per/ver), this epsom salt and Cal/Mag thing has been cemented in stone on the weed forums.

Weed forums that are mostly Beginner and Intermediate growers, serving as one big Echo Chamber of, sometimes, complete bullshit on how to grow weed.

And, lot's 'o people have a lot of posts invested in pimping Cal/Mag and epsom, having 'developed' some patchwork, inefficient nutrient regime, so good luck finding many open minds about what is really causing all of these Ca and Mg def that show up in weed gardens and on weed forums. And weed being a Ca Whore, or an Mg slut ain't what really causes this. It is usually operator error ...

That article, in addition to being a sales page, used words like 'it is believed'. You have to discriminate, a bit, when taking stuff like this and applying it to an indoor weed garden using soiless peat/per/verm or hydro. In this case, you need to remember that Mg is very mobile - not just in plants, but also in the soil. Outdoors in REAL soil. It leaches and flushes through, which, after the course of time, can lead to Mg defciencies on the soil. Take that same exact soil mix that all of these rose, pepper and tomato gardeners are growing in in your backyard, and it would most likely limit your harvest. And, it will most like be an organic soil very low in Mg because of how mobile Mg is in the soil. Sure, throw some Mg salts in the soil in that case. And some perlite, and some worm castings, and a whole bunch 'o other crap, because it is just organic soil you dug out of the average backyard, deficient in many ways, with Mg being right up there.

You could piss in a jug every day, dilute it a bit, and throw it one your lawn and see positive results. And that is because the medium that the lawn is growing in is way less precise, taken care of, fed, full of nutrients than your bottles bought at the grow shop, etc., than the medium in a weed garden. Doesn't mean I want to start pissing on my weed plants, though ...

What's my epsom salt AND Cal/Mag dosage WITH RO water? 0mL/ga.
​

 

[Papageno]

So...lots to talk about there. I talk to much. I will fail to attempt to keep this short. I use it though in my compost. In the compost you have to be gentle because too much slows down the microbes. So you kinda need to slow feed over time for best results...but that is just plain true in compost amendments.

In hydro there are 2 schools of thought here to appreciate.

1) It is hard to overdo Mag in the plant period so...what most programs offer is you target the pH in a range suited for the other stuff and overdose this so that it comes out right.

2) some people don't adjust the pH and let the res ride. If it goes south you can dump and start over. If you are savy you can top off and the pH goes where the plant needs it to. As long as your PPM and your mix is close enough to what the plant needs it will take care of itself quite well. Assuming you have a clean hydro setup. Sometimes it will get very low before coming back. 5.2 natural cycle is common.

So like if you want you can just not worry about it if you feed right. But...that is sort of stating the obvious for a nutrient defficiancy.

 

[Remystemple]

So...lots to talk about there. I talk to much. I will fail to attempt to keep this short. I use it though in my compost. In the compost you have to be gentle because too much slows down the microbes. So you kinda need to slow feed over time for best results...but that is just plain true in compost amendments.

In hydro there are 2 schools of thought here to appreciate.

1) It is hard to overdo Mag in the plant period so...what most programs offer is you target the pH in a range suited for the other stuff and overdose this so that it comes out right.

2) some people don't adjust the pH and let the res ride. If it goes south you can dump and start over. If you are savy you can top off and the pH goes where the plant needs it to. As long as your PPM and your mix is close enough to what the plant needs it will take care of itself quite well. Assuming you have a clean hydro setup. Sometimes it will get very low before coming back. 5.2 natural cycle is common.

So like if you want you can just not worry about it if you feed right. But...that is sort of stating the obvious for a nutrient defficiancy.

Thanks for chipping in..
wondering if i need to just relax about it a bit and just feed without cal mag or ES and only use them if a deficiency should appear. my problem is that it's my first grow and i'm afraid of everything and don't want to see deficiencies at all lol. but i suppose it could also be a good way to get to know the craft.

 

[Papageno]

Funny thing about human beings is that we truly only learn by failure.

You can read books and memorize stuff that other people discovered all day long and call it learning. It is technically.

But you know that we all only truly learn when we look inward on our failures and reflect and decide to do something positive about it.

You will fail and that is fine.

But way worse than an easy to correct defficiancy is an abundance issue that goes toxic and shuts down the plant.

If this is one of your first 6 grows...just slow down on everything you are doing.

LST and super cropping are like the only 2 things to go crazy overboard on when new. Let the rest come to you.

Try a simple method. If it is easy you will have great results. If you choose a pro hard method and fail...that's on you.

You will be fine.

 

[Remystemple]

Funny thing about human beings is that we truly only learn by failure.

You can read books and memorize stuff that other people discovered all day long and call it learning. It is technically.

But you know that we all only truly learn when we look inward on our failures and reflect and decide to do something positive about it.

You will fail and that is fine.

But way worse than an easy to correct defficiancy is an abundance issue that goes toxic and shuts down the plant.

If this is one of your first 6 grows...just slow down on everything you are doing.

LST and super cropping are like the only 2 things to go crazy overboard on when new. Let the rest come to you.

Try a simple method. If it is easy you will have great results. If you choose a pro hard method and fail...that's on you.

You will be fine.

I agree. the thought of correcting an abundance is much worse. I'm gonna stick with the 1/1/1 ratio i'll add the other stuff if the plants start crying for it.

Thanks!