Electric current bad for plants?

[ConstantGreen]

Managed to get a buzz off my plants today

I realized that the tub of water + towel that I setup to increase tent humidity has actually wicked enough water out into the flood pan to compromise the tower fan's electrical. While holding the seedlings to water them, I got a buzz from the bottom of the pot that was in contact with the towel. Wasn't sure what I was feeling at first so I tapped the same spot again and again. Each tap I could feel the current stronger through my finger and forearm until it started becoming a little painful.

I set the plants down on their metal tray and tried brushing the excess water droplets off their leaves. I got a shock then, too, when touching the leaves that had water on them. I think I was passing a current through the plant, cookie sheet, water, from the fan's oscillation motor. I've since unplugged the fan, no more shocks.

Are electric currents and small shocks like that damaging to the plants? They might have been sitting in the electric field like that for a week or so.

 

[Papageno]

Not damaging as much as the excessive over-watering that is killing the roots.

Electricity, like water, flows the path of least resistance. The short you are creating is not going into the plants as there is no ground path (first of Kirchhoff's rules of electricity). Current can't flow to nowhere. It has to flow to an electrical sink.

The field you suggests exists can only be created by current flowing somewhere. Even if the pan is electrically grounded, it has such a bad connection that it isn't shorting out the appliance...so you would not create a field of any issue.

You need to significantly dry out that grow my friend.

 

[Rifleman]

.........You need to significantly dry out that grow my friend.

I agree. Your lower leaves are yellowing most likely due to overwatering. Let them dry out until the container feel light.

 

[OlderGrower]

Screw the plant, are you ok? electric shocks are nothing to laugh about. It only takes 6 mili-amps to stop your heart.
I know I keep repeating myself like a mother hen , but SAFETY 1st PEOPLE. No plant is worth dying for.

 

[ConstantGreen]

I don't understand your explanation VillageIdiot. There was an electrical current coming from the outlet that the fan was plugged into. Even after the fan was turned off, the plants were still hot. So there must be a wire at the base of the fan that is making a connection between the outlet and the water on the floor. My arm was the electrical sink, receiving the charge whenever I touched the wet towel or wet leaf. Unplugged the fan, no more shock.

I think you guys are analyzing the picture wrong. The pan that they are on keeps the pots above the water pooling on the ground. The plants are wilting a little from being underwatered. It has been 3 days since their last watering and trust me - they were very dry, light, and ready for a drink. I believe the yellowing lower leaves is N deficiency because they're just now finishing the nutrients in the soil and are ready for feeding. This picture is just after feeding them, with water droplets all over that kept shocking me.

And thanks for your concern, oldergrower. I'm okay, just curious.

 

[OlderGrower]

What he is trying to tell you is electricity can not flow unless it flows to ground. There has to be a path for electricity to travel to ground before you can be shocked. Hence the reason I have drilled and tapped live 277 volt bus bars before without being killed, I made sure I was not grounded.

 

[ConstantGreen]

I'm still confused. I was standing on concrete in a basement. I definitely got a shock... was my body acting like a capacitor?

 

[Rifleman]

Screw the plant, are you ok? electric shocks are nothing to laugh about. It only takes 6 mili-amps to stop your heart.
I know I keep repeating myself like a mother hen , but SAFETY 1st PEOPLE. No plant is worth dying for.

Since I know that you are a professional electrician I'll take your word for it. I stuck a 9v battery to my tongue in my youth...been afraid of the magic juice wires ever since.

 

[ConstantGreen]

So does anyone know anything related to electrical currents passing through plants? All these replies have been off-topic lol. I'm not an electrician but there was definitely electricity passing through the plants; from the wet fan cord, to my hand. Not sure what you guys are trying to tell me otherwise.

 

[Papageno]

I happen to be an electrical engineer. One of my better accomplishments was as a developer at Intel I taught the new technology development team in Santa Clara that the way the Logic team (the people designing the microprocessors in your computer) was testing semiconductors wrong. I took the Pentium test code and showed them how to do it right ...if they cared to do so. The principal engineer responsible for the technology development team made sure my annual review included the specific comments that I made the process development an order of magnitude more efficient. This lead to a product that worked that they could not make work in 8 years. I could actually go on and on.

Today...I happen to work on Airplanes. What I am trying to say is I understand current flow.

I have designed Power supplies and ballasts. I even make spaghetti sauce once in a while but it is spicy so you may not like it.

And no shit I have worked for Biotronik which is a world class pace maker company. So I actually know about current in the heart.

What he described was not unsafe...but I totally agree with Pops...Caution is of the utmost importance!

What I am saying is there is no path for current to flow through those plants. When you touched it a path was created through your body.

There is an old adage about if a power line falls on your car...do not get out. As long as the path to ground is not through you then you can be at 200KV.

Here watch this...
High voltage power line repair by Helicopter - Video Dailymotion

There is no path to ground so he can touch the line and no issue.

Pops is absolutely correct...please be careful. Keep water away from the electronics. And yes for those who are smarty pants...Water is non conductive so pure 0ppm water alone is not a big deal.. EVERYTHING that we add to the water makes the water conductive. So the water in the basin will conduct.

Best of luck my friends...Be careful, Be safe...so that you can Be High!

 

[Papageno]

To say it for pot heads...

Lets say you are looking at a Dam. lets say I drill a hole in the dam at the base of the dam. If you put your hand in front of it to stop the water your hand would be removed from your body.

Now lets say the dam is 100Ft above the water line on the high side. Lets say I drill a hole through it at the top of the dam. It would be fairly easy to put your hand in front of the hole and stop the non existent water.

The plants have no way of letting the dam release the water. It wont go anywhere. When you touched it you created a hole in the dam below the water line. The depth of the hole is dependent on the resistance between you and the breaker in your garage. The resistance created by the water and such is so high that you got lucky and the hole is about 1/2 a cm below the water line. So you didn't loose your hand. Happy times for all!!!

 

[ConstantGreen]

Lol I'm sorry... but these analogies are only further confusing me. I understand the physics of water pressure and holes, but I don't see how that applies to this electrical situation.

What I am saying is there is no path for current to flow through those plants. When you touched it a path was created through your body.

I have a problem with this statement. When I touched the plant, the path for the current was created through my body. But the current came through the plant first when I touched one of the wet leaves. My guess is that made a connection from my body, to the water droplet, through the plant's nervous system, into the wet soil, touching the metal pan, floating over a pool of water touching a hot wire. Are you trying to tell me that the current did not pass through the plant? Where did the charge come from, then?

And you still haven't said anything about the effects of electricity on plants, which is all I care about. I'm getting tired of arguing the semantics of HOW electricity was passed through it - I know pretty damn well I was getting shocked every time I touched them wet. I didn't think this thread was such a complicated question. Your vast credentials are not relevant if you don't know anything about the effect that shock has on plants.

 

[Richard Richardson]

Your plants will be fine probably...


Sent from my iPhone using 420

 

[ConstantGreen]

Made a diagram if that makes it any more clear...

I'm sure they'll be fine, too. Just wish there was more information out there. Maybe the current was affecting the plant's physiology, nutrient uptake, soil microbes or something. If we knew, maybe we could manipulate it.

 

[Rifleman]

Let me try. Electricity can not flow unless there is a path to ground. Your plants were not grounded therefore they do not feel the electrical current. If elec current flowed without a ground you would not be able to walk past an outlet without it reaching out and shocking you.

 

[Papageno]

Lol I'm sorry... but these analogies are only further confusing me. I understand the physics of water pressure and holes, but I don't see how that applies to this electrical situation.

Sorry I only used that analogy because water and water pressure and water flow are 100% analogous so most people find the explanations more easy to understand than Electrons, Voltage and Current flow.

I have a problem with this statement. When I touched the plant, the path for the current was created through my body. But the current came through the plant first when I touched one of the wet leaves. My guess is that made a connection from my body, to the water droplet, through the plant's nervous system, into the wet soil, touching the metal pan, floating over a pool of water touching a hot wire. Are you trying to tell me that the current did not pass through the plant? Where did the charge come from, then?

Ah I see now my confusion. I thought you were worried that current was flowing through them constantly. The root of the question now as I understand it is such a basic one that I never made the jump to assume you would be worried about that. Sorry.

When you grabbed the leaf then and only then you created a ground path for the current to go somewhere so for that moment a very small amount of current went through the plant. The worst damage would be right where you touched it. The rest of the plant would be much less damaged because the bottleneck for the current is there so the current density is highest there...and the interface resistance would be highest there so it would get hottest there. So if you are not seeing damage there then you should not be worried about the other places in the plant where the current did not flow or flowed with much less current density.

I do believe that watching the video I posted it would help you understand this...maybe not. It is just cool to see live HV power being repaired by a guy hanging out of a helicopter.

And you still haven't said anything about the effects of electricity on plants, which is all I care about. I'm getting tired of arguing the semantics of HOW electricity was passed through it - I know pretty damn well I was getting shocked every time I touched them wet. I didn't think this thread was such a complicated question. Your vast credentials are not relevant if you don't know anything about the effect that shock has on plants.

Sorry but it matters because if electricity is not flowing through them then the question doesn't really matter. I understand you had momentary current when you touched them but again since you were there and watched nothing happen I assumed you understood that.

I didn't go on an on about it because with electricity it is just like people and dogs. I am not arguing. I am trying to explain that you are worried about something that didn't happen. The damage that didn't happen...sure current was flown but there was no real damage. If the electricity was an issue it would have burned them immediately. Ever since you stopped touching them they have been healing but probably they never were damaged to begin with. Electricity can flow through most things without damaging them. It depends on how much current is flowing and at some point it can be big enough to damage something but it would be obvious.

Ask yourself this...Would you have been better served if I had simply answered "No you are fine"...I can just post that?

My vast credentials were only stated because you refused to understand the post and accused me of being someone who doesn't know "anything" about passing electricity through plants. I happen to know a lot about it. They are fine.

 

[Papageno]

I am gonna leave you alone after this last post.

I am not a troll. I don't mean to offend you or make you think there is an argument. I am not arguing. I am just trying to help you bro.

I happen to be very qualified to answer this particular question. If there was a problem I would have immediately explained how to fix it. I was trying to help you out.

That is why I brought up the problem with water that you showed us in the pics. The environment is stressing out the plants and may cause serious stunting, delayed results or worse root rot. The issue with the electricity is a nonissue. It is hard for some of us to hold back on helping with things that are obvious in pics that are posted. The pic was just distracting as it didn't aid really in explaining the question you had but it does show a real problem.

 

[AKgramma]

I used to live within 150' of a large set of transmission lines, the kind that carry high voltage long distances. (5KW) Whenever an overgrown Cottonwood tree fell on the wires, the tree would violently spark and throw out fireworks, sometimes starting grass fires. Like trees struck by lightning, they burnt up and also melted the wire they were stuck on..

So the answer to your question is yes. Electrical current is bad for your plants, and anyone who is unlucky enough to touch them. Also, standing on a concrete floor completes the circuit, if you're not wearing rubber-soled shoes. I've gotten my share of shocks using power tools standing on concrete in thin shoes!

 

[OlderGrower]

I happen to be an electrical engineer.

That would explain a lot right there !

And yes pure H2O is non conductive but in nature the odds of anyone finding pure H2O are less then me winning all the lotteries in one day. H2O in nature picks up trace elements just by running across other elements like rocks and such

 

[OlderGrower]

Lol I'm sorry... but these analogies are only further confusing me. I understand the physics of water pressure and holes, but I don't see how that applies to this electrical situation.



I have a problem with this statement. When I touched the plant, the path for the current was created through my body. But the current came through the plant first when I touched one of the wet leaves. My guess is that made a connection from my body, to the water droplet, through the plant's nervous system, into the wet soil, touching the metal pan, floating over a pool of water touching a hot wire. Are you trying to tell me that the current did not pass through the plant? Where did the charge come from, then?

And you still haven't said anything about the effects of electricity on plants, which is all I care about. I'm getting tired of arguing the semantics of HOW electricity was passed through it - I know pretty damn well I was getting shocked every time I touched them wet. I didn't think this thread was such a complicated question. Your vast credentials are not relevant if you don't know anything about the effect that shock has on plants.

Hey Versai,
simple answer to your question is this, only time will tell. I watched a video on safety when I was just an apprentice wireman years ago and it was about a young man, perhaps in his mid 20's who was hit by an electrical shock from 277 volts. I entered his body and exited through a pin hole in his elbow which was where the 1st part of his body was grounded. The day of the accident, it looked fine other then a small pin hole near his elbow. that was day 1. Next day, day 2, now his forearm looks bruised and swollen, not looking good at all. Day three. his forearm is now black, and doctors are forced to amputate his arm to save his life. If you do not see any damage to the plant by now, it is fine, but perhaps now you can understand why I originally said screw the plant. Electric shocks are very dangerous. But if you have seen no ill effects by now chances are the worst you did was stress the hell out of her.

I believe Villageidiot was truly only trying to explain to you in order to help you better understand. We all have different ways of helping, and while you may not see how he was trying to help, I would bet that his intentions were only to help you.
I know some of the ways I use to try to explain things to people seems confusing to some. We all are different, but the beauty of this site is, that even if you do not get what someone is trying to get across, you can bet your paycheck their intentions are good and they are trying to be helpful.

I read his last post and believe my statement to be true.
So go kiss and make up, but remember, no tongue, that would just be wrong