Earthworms in soil?

[NorthernCosmos]

I've been adding a few earthworms to my soil mix. However, they seem to die off or escape. I find some dead ones in the runoff water, and some actually escape and I find them on the floor of the tent. So I end up picking up the sad little dried brown "threads" and throwing them in the soil mix as organic matter...

- Are anyone else bothering with earthworms?
- Are they actually beneficial to some significant degree - thinking of the short grow time and other thing being used for aeration (clay pebbles or perlite)?
- Why do they die or escape - don't like the nutes, too much water, to hot or something else? Any earthworm survival tips?

 

[Emilya Green]

I have earthworms living in my compost bins and quite often I run into them as I am building containers. They survive in my soil because there are enough organics in there for them to eat, and while I do drown a few now and then, they know how to pop to the surface when they have to. Active living earthworms in your soil greatly helps aeration and they are wonderful for the soil in the nutrients they leave behind both while living and dead as well as the microbes that thrive in and around them.

 

[013]

Search out 420 member Nunyabiz using search box and read his grow threads, he’s part of the brain trust on a wide range of subjects. See video of his living organic soil grow, it’s covered in bugs.

 

[DakiniKush]

I've been adding a few earthworms to my soil mix. However, they seem to die off or escape. I find some dead ones in the runoff water, and some actually escape and I find them on the floor of the tent. So I end up picking up the sad little dried brown "threads" and throwing them in the soil mix as organic matter...

- Are anyone else bothering with earthworms?
- Are they actually beneficial to some significant degree - thinking of the short grow time and other thing being used for aeration (clay pebbles or perlite)?
- Why do they die or escape - don't like the nutes, too much water, to hot or something else? Any earthworm survival tips?

Mine all die too!

 

[NorthernCosmos]

I have earthworms living in my compost bins and quite often I run into them as I am building containers. They survive in my soil because there are enough organics in there for them to eat, and while I do drown a few now and then, they know how to pop to the surface when they have to. Active living earthworms in your soil greatly helps aeration and they are wonderful for the soil in the nutrients they leave behind both while living and dead as well as the microbes that thrive in and around them.

OK, I take it that it's definitely worth adopting some worms then

The sad thing is the dying off though. The worms live happily in my garden compost. The same compost goes into my soil mix after a nuking in the microwave oven. The nuking is necessary, or I'll get root aphids and root eating beetles.

The worms I adopt are picked out of the compost before nuking and given a shower to be sure that there are no pests riding on their backs. Then I drop them into the buckets as I sow the seeds.

At the end of a grow I inspect the soil, and there has never been any surviving earthworms after the 80-100 day grow period. I'm not into over watering, so I'd hope it's they're not all not drowning. I wish I knew why they die off and how I could avoid that - I almost feel bad for the little guys...

 

[Emilya Green]

I have never heard of prewashing earthworms, but who knows... I am wondering if the sudden shower and you believing that they would come into your garden as Trojan horses has anything to do with their early demise. It may just be that I have never noticed any of mine die too because they did the dirty deed totally out of my view.
No worries... I plan on starting up a new and better worm farm very soon... too many irons in the fire at the moment.

 

[NorthernCosmos]

I am wondering if the sudden shower and you believing that they would come into your garden as Trojan horses has anything to do with their early demise.

I'm just too scared of little aphid eggs or something coming along with them. The "shower" is just a splash of water to get the un-nuked compost off them, no worse than a little rain. They look fine afterwards, and they're surprisingly quick by the way, they'll climb the wall of a bucket and be gone if you're not paying attention... When the buckets are ready, the worms burrow into the soil. They do live for a while in there since I've found escapees probably at least a month after they moved into the buckets.

Oh well, I'll try to be careful with the "shower"... or maybe just gently clean them with tiny soft towels

 

[NorthernCosmos]

I've been reading a little now. Most of the "whys" of them dying boils down to anecdotes and some of the reasons given are : they don't like the dry cycle - earthworms need moist soil, the nutes kill them, there may not be enough bacterial life to sustain them. The drying out part is perhaps the most plausible, supported by one of the seemingly reliable sources here. The state I find them in is always dried out, like little brown sticks that snaps when you touch them.

I mentioned the worms being fast movers; they could very well be Red Wigglers (wiki ref.) which are the most common in compost. Them having setae equipped bodies may explain why they're such good escape-artists.

 

[Emilya Green]

I've been reading a little now. Most of the "whys" of them dying boils down to anecdotes and some of the reasons given are : they don't like the dry cycle - earthworms need moist soil, the nutes kill them, there may not be enough bacterial life to sustain them. The drying out part is perhaps the most plausible, supported by one of the seemingly reliable sources here. The state I find them in is always dried out, like little brown sticks that snaps when you touch them.

I mentioned the worms being fast movers; they could very well be Red Wigglers (wiki ref.) which are the most common in compost. Them having setae equipped bodies may explain why they're such good escape-artists.

While the dry cycle may be killing a few of them, the worms in my worm bins were smart enough to stay in the wettest parts of the system, even when the top and sides dried out. If you have viable breeders in your container (more than 1 earthworm) they are probably congregating in that last inch of container, where it never really dries out all the way.

 

[NorthernCosmos]

Perhaps the earthworms around these parts are a bit dense?

I'll continue to add them, and perhaps add a few more half way in the growth. Ideally I want them to survive and breed, so I'll try to learn more about this. So yeah... earthworm studies now... little did I know where the growing would take me

 

[NorthernCosmos]

I just remembered that I had posted pic of the earthworms in my very first plants in my journal. So for completeness sake I link to them here. For some reason there was a mass death, or emergence(?), at around day 40. These worms was in the compost I added. I hadn't started the practice of microwaving the compost at the time, and I got root aphids and fungus gnats as well as plenty of earthworms. This is the sad sight of dead earthworms in the run off trays at day ~40 :

 

[lazylathe]

@NorthernCosmos

I have worms in my soil bin that gets fresh compost added as well as a range of organic components and ground up fruit and veggies for food. They are kept in the basement where it is always nice and cool.

I use that soil and just scoop it into my fabric pots to grow. The pots are full of worms and I also will feed them veggies and fruits during the grow, just spread on top of soil. This grow I also have used some hay on top as another natural layer and it helps keep moisture in the pots.

What are you feeding your plants?
Is it all natural and organic? Worms do not like salts or any chemical fertilizers.

I have never found dead worms after a grow, usually more of the beasts!

 

[NorthernCosmos]

What are you feeding your plants?

I use the three part Advanced Nutrients Perfect pH - so yeah, that's salts (as in ionic compounds).

I'm slowly moving in the direction of a LOS variant, but I'll be using nutes for the immediate future. Maybe I'll add some food for them, as you do, and see if that'll get them through their hardship - tempting them towards the upper, less nute drenched, soil layers. If that doesn't work, perhaps I'll wait for the day I can grow with LOS and teas - there's no point in persisting in killing the little guys...

 

[lazylathe]

I use the three part Advanced Nutrients Perfect pH - so yeah, that's salts (as in ionic compounds).

I'm slowly moving in the direction of a LOS variant, but I'll be using nutes for the immediate future. Maybe I'll add some food for them, as you do, and see if that'll get them through their hardship - tempting them towards the upper, less nute drenched, soil layers. If that doesn't work, perhaps I'll wait for the day I can grow with LOS and teas - there's no point in persisting in killing the little guys...

I watered last night with Microbial Mass, Nirvana, EM-1 and cal/mag.
Fed the worms in the bin and the pots, also last night

This was one of my pots tonight at lights on.
Happy worm getting some dinner as well you can see some sprouting grass!
It's your salts that are killing your poor little worms, dehydrating the poor workers! LOL!

 

[NorthernCosmos]

So nice to see some healthy worms!

I'm not familiar with the nutes you use, but I take it they're free of salts then. So I could switch to non-salt nutes (I have no idea what that would be...) and have a thriving worm culture - tempting, but that would happen by itself if/when I get to a LOS situation.

 

[lazylathe]

So nice to see some healthy worms!

I'm not familiar with the nutes you use, but I take it they're free of salts then. So I could switch to non-salt nutes (I have no idea what that would be...) and have a thriving worm culture - tempting, but that would happen by itself if/when I get to a LOS situation.

If you have a hydroponics store near you, get to know the owner or one of the employees.
They have a wealth of knowledge and can help you out a lot!
My guy will diagnose from pictures, recommend better products that I have in my hand and sometimes cheaper and is just a great guy to chat to about what is going on in the world of growing.
He grows and enters flower and extracts into Canadian and US competitions and has won several awards.

If you want to go organic, just think what nature provides!
Kelp, glacial rock dust, chicken poop, cow poop, sheep poop, compost and an array of other amendments.
You can also go the easy way of buying ready made soil and just add pH adjusted water from start to finish.

And yes, no salts in my grow room anymore! Going as organic as I can and seeing what I can achieve in my basement!
Nirvana is by Advanced Nutrients and is not Certified organic but my guy recommends it for extra sticky icky and they are dripping! Worms are still thriving, so no salts.
Microbial Mass is a Canadian equivalent of Mammoth Microbes, they make more Nitrogen and Phosphorous available to the plants.
EM-1 is Essential Microbes that feed the bacteria colonies in the soil and keep them thriving.
And the Cal/Mag is a Calcium/magnesium supplement required when growing under LED especially Quantum Boards.

I started my worm bin about 4 months before I wanted to start growing. After a month of settling in I added all the amendments and more compost and stirred it all up. Added some Bokashi on top for healthy mycellium and gave it a spray down and closed the lid! Turned the soil over once a week and added perlite as required to get a nice airy mix.
This cooked for 3 months, basically to break down the nutrients into stuff the plant can actually use.
Seedlings are started in a store bought good organic seedling mix with a bit of the hotter worm bin mix.
This should see most plants through their 1st month and then you can transplant into your organic worm mix.
And away you go!

It's quite easy and fun! Check out my journal for a look at how I am doing things if you have time.
It's a super easy way of growing!

 

[Nunyabiz]

 

[NorthernCosmos]

Wow, Nunyabiz! That's almost scary

Love the worms, but those other critters had me worrying... What are they? Are they beneficial?

So a very LOS, I take it. The more I get to know, the more I want to go there!

 

[013]

That’s what I was talking about Northern...

 

[Nunyabiz]

Wow, Nunyabiz! That's almost scary

Love the worms, but those other critters had me worrying... What are they? Are they beneficial?

So a very LOS, I take it. The more I get to know, the more I want to go there!

Those are Rove Beetles, harmless to plants but hell on any little critter like fungus gnats and aphids.
They only live about 20 days so 1000s of them die in my soil every month leaving their little dead bodies so a decent amount of Chitin.
They also help break down the soil, will eat amendments and crap that out as Fras.
I bought 500 of them about 3 years ago and have probably had 100,000+ live and die in my soil since, also haven't had any fungus gnat problem at all in 3 years.