Differences in the same strain

[Doctor Trevor]

I'm currently growing two plants of the Dark Angel strain. The differences in their appearance is incredible. One plant ("Taija") is short and bushy while the other ("Stacy") is much taller and more open. Both plants were started at the same time. Both received the same light and nutrient schedule. The only difference is that Taija one is growing in a five gallon pot while her sister is in a three gallon pot. Stacy is flowering at multiple spots while Taija hasn't started yet.

Is this normal? I would've thought that they would be more similar than they are.

 

[SmokeLake]

Are your dark angels from Auto or Photo plants? Inside or outside?

 

[Doctor Trevor]

They are photo and are inside.

 

[Stormblessed]

The difference in phenotypes can b extreme, r u certain the one not flowering is female?

 

[Doctor Trevor]

I purchased both these seeds at the same time; they're from the same order. I just checked Taija. No pollen sacks.

 

[Stormblessed]

Yeah seed off the same plant can turn out very different, with all the genetics in these hybrids from years of crossing strains it’s a crap shoot what u will get, but I believe the higher the # the more stable it should b, but that only helps if they list it, F1-F7 I believe

 

[Doctor Trevor]

I'll check the website where I purchased them and see if they list these number.

What do these numbers refer to? Each generation of cross breeding?

 

[Doctor Trevor]

Just checked the site. No mention of these F-numbers. It describes the strain as a cross between Cheese and Jack Herer.

 

[Stormblessed]

I’m 90% sure that’s what it means, like F1 is from the two original strains

 

[Doctor Trevor]

Good to know.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Auggie]

OK, so, we got two cats. A boy and a girl; and they fall in love and decide to start a family.
Well, after a lot of yowling and howling on the fence they do the wild kitty thing ... and a few weeks later they are proud parents.
Five of the kitties are black. All black.
One kitty has a white nose and two feet that are white and the rest of her is gray.

Now daddy cat is kind of upset because ... well, one offspring just doesn't look like him or momma.

What daddy cat doesn't know is that IF there was a white cat or a gray cat back in their genetic pool, waaaaay back; there is a gray and a white dna splice in (probably both) their strands ... and every X numbers of times the mom dna and the dad dna get together and those white/gray genes match up.

There are SO many people out there right now calling themselves breeders and slinging sperm all over the place (yes, we're still talking about plants), and even though you think you have a Dark Angel strain (wtf IS that anyway? just a mixture of some stuff that someone somewhere thought would be cool?), somewhere in that strand there's a 'tall' gene, and a 'short fat' gene and it just depend on luck as to how they match up and play together.

Once daddy cat realized that he settled down to love the entire litter, and they lived happily ever after.

 

[Doctor Trevor]

What were YOU smoking when you wrote this?

There's more than just plant height. The shorter one was much bushier than the other. Even the leaf colors between the plants varied. And there was the one that started blooming a week ahead of the other.

I understand that they won't look the same, but these two had nothing in common. And the last two were the same way. My concern is, maybe, I didn't get the seeds I ordered.

 

[Stormblessed]

That’s always a possibility but variations in the strain r probably more likely

 

[Auggie]

What were YOU smoking when you wrote this?

The same thing everyone else is smoking here - but it doesn't make me as stupid as I look.

There's more than just plant height.

Yea, whatever.
Read a book Doc.
Suggest a very basic one on genetic variation, mutation, etc. That kitten could have also been born with three legs and one eye ...

An article in the Journal of American Medicine noted that "Variations usually have a small effect on phenotype (continuous variation), but there are examples where a variant has a large effect on a phenotype, and generates distinct categories (discontinuous variation)."

Then again ... maybe you got the wrong seed.

 

[Auggie]

Here's a short diagram and article by University of Cal / Berkeley about this issue.

Genetic variation

evolution.berkeley.edu

It's easy to understand; but ask if you have questions.

 

[Doctor Trevor]

I asked a simple question regarding why my plants were so different. You replied that I should love all my plants equally, which didn't help at all. At all! Now, after your pretentious moments in the spot light, you suggest that I got the wrong seed.

If I have to ask questions, I won't ask you.

 

[Auggie]

I asked a simple question regarding why my plants were so different.

And I answered your 'simple' question with a simple answer; one that I thought even you could understand.

which didn't help at all.

No answer will help those plants be anything other than what they are. You asked WHY - I told you why.

If I have to ask questions, I won't ask you.

Thank you. But, I will answer any way; your question was a good one and others may learn from the answers they get from me and others. You already know all the answers so just ignore me. But, keep up the good questions ...

 

[CADBOY]

OK, so, we got two cats. A boy and a girl; and they fall in love and decide to start a family.
Well, after a lot of yowling and howling on the fence they do the wild kitty thing ... and a few weeks later they are proud parents.
Five of the kitties are black. All black.
One kitty has a white nose and two feet that are white and the rest of her is gray.

Now daddy cat is kind of upset because ... well, one offspring just doesn't look like him or momma.

What daddy cat doesn't know is that IF there was a white cat or a gray cat back in their genetic pool, waaaaay back; there is a gray and a white dna splice in (probably both) their strands ... and every X numbers of times the mom dna and the dad dna get together and those white/gray genes match up.

There are SO many people out there right now calling themselves breeders and slinging sperm all over the place (yes, we're still talking about plants), and even though you think you have a Dark Angel strain (wtf IS that anyway? just a mixture of some stuff that someone somewhere thought would be cool?), somewhere in that strand there's a 'tall' gene, and a 'short fat' gene and it just depend on luck as to how they match up and play together.

Once daddy cat realized that he settled down to love the entire litter, and they lived happily ever after.

This was actually entertaining while being useful and relative helpful information. Good Job.

 

[Icemud]

I'm currently growing two plants of the Dark Angel strain. The differences in their appearance is incredible. One plant ("Taija") is short and bushy while the other ("Stacy") is much taller and more open. Both plants were started at the same time. Both received the same light and nutrient schedule. The only difference is that Taija one is growing in a five gallon pot while her sister is in a three gallon pot. Stacy is flowering at multiple spots while Taija hasn't started yet.

Is this normal? I would've thought that they would be more similar than they are.

This is very normal, especially plants from seed. Since most cannabis seeds are not "isogenetic" or "true breeding", this means that each seed you plant has slightly different combinations of genetic coding, which influences things light height, branching, smell, leaf shape...etc... These slight differences are called Genotype and likely the cause of your plants looking different. The cannabis industry is decades behind big AG when it comes to seeds and breeding, so it is extremely rare to find cannabis seeds which feature identical genotypes which usually takes at least 7 generations of imbreeding and in most other industrys assistance from Genetic markers from DNA analysis for science driven selective breeding... Therefore if you have a farm and order seeds for your food crops, generally you get identical plants because those particular genetics have been selectively bread for sometimes 30+ years or more... Cannabis, due to its illegal status for so long, has not caught up to these techniques yet so it trails way behind when looking for "true breeding seeds". Therefore most cannabis seeds will have variation. If you want to have very similar plants from seed, you want to seek out seeds listed as F7, F8, F9 etc, which means they have been selectively bred over 7+ generations which pretty much will give you plants that are 99% similar.

If you have 2 clones, taken from the same plant, then generally they will have identical or very closely related genotype therefore typically you will not see this type of difference between plants...HOWEVER, it can happen with clones too. Generally when clones differ in look, shape, size, etc.. then what you are seeing is Phenotype expression, which is the plants changes based on the environmental factors. Genotype can also affect Phenotype expression. An example of 2 clones having completely different phenotypes would be if you grew 1 clone in a dry desert, and 1 clone in a moist environment... the plants could have exact genotype, however because of the environment, the phenotype expression could be very different, where generally buds grown in dry enviroments are very dense and ones grown in moist environments are much looser but larger.

What you are doing right now is generally referred to "pheno hunting"... What most growers will do is buy a pack of seeds, pop all of them, and then take a clone of each female plant before the plants are flowered out... Then the grower selects the best plant from the group, and uses the clone on future grows, ensuring to have the best "version" or phenotype of the strain they are working with.

 

[Doctor Trevor]

I'm not cloning my plants yet. I'm just starting out now. Maybe in the next year.

I was just concerned because my two current plants, from the same strain, are so different. Height. Density/bushiness. Leaf color. And I read some comments regarding the seed farm not being the best.

The two plants I have growing are the same strain, were planted at the same time and were treated the same way. Aside for height difference, there are differences with leaf color, bushiness and over all density, one is two weeks ahead of the other in flowering.

I went assofar as to check the non-blooming one for signs it's a male or herm.

Thanks for getting back to me.