Deficiency diagnosis help please

[cnile]

Hello. Thank you. Here's the details
Jack Herer strain. This pheno is colorful.


Veg metal halide
3.5 month from seed

Been giving her grow nutes.

Growth spirt for sure has stopped

I think it's P and K deficiency but would love feedback. Thabks!!

Botyom fan leaf

Old growth.

Other old growth

Bottom leaves

Ps. Being in veg 3 months and in 5 gal smart pot, it's only logical she's going to want some bloom nutes too??


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[cnile]

someone? plz?


its potassium def right?

 

[TheFertilizer]

Is it an autoflower? I don't see any pre-flowers, it shouldn't need bloom nutrients until it starts to show pre-flowers at least. What nutrients are you using, do you alternate with plain-water feedings? You might have a salt build-up blocking them out. Knowing the pH of your soil would help if you can get it.

It does look a little more like phosphor to me, maybe with a little bit of magnesium. Can't really say more until we get more details about your nutrients, watering schedule, pH, etc.

But, generally speaking, you're either not using enough of your nutrients, or you have used too much and built up levels of salt in the soil causing lockout.

 

[flatlander77]

same issue but mines from over watering. They got neglected for a week in to deep of water.... they'll bounce back. Over watering is harder on it than under watering. Underwatering they will drop to the point of looking dead but within 2 hours of watering they perk back up. Been 4 days of very slow recovery from over watering though...


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[cnile]

No build up
No ph issue
Not over feed

Standard veg nutes standard rate

Veg for long time.

It's p or k I don't know maybe both.

Lower growth curling and die and I think some older fan leaves have blue tint to them. I think it's K because of that.

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[TheFertilizer]

Phosphorous makes blueish leaves. As well as pruprle streaks and stems.

If you're so convinced it a defeciency, go buy some P and K booster and feed it that. I really think your problem is in pH or uptake problems though, so don't expect it to actually help. It's possible what you're feeding them doesn't have enough P, but since you haven't posted ANY INFORMATION about that, it's hard to say.

So why even ask us? Go buy some P and K booster if you're so sure that's what the problem is. Maybe it is, but it's pretty unlikely that any "standard" nutrient pack wouldn't have enough of either since they're major macro nutrients. P and K boosters are usually not needed until flower, veg. formulas should have sufficient levels.

What size are your pots? They look pretty small for plants that large. Yet another potential uptake problem.

 

[cnile]

Phosphorous makes blueish leaves. As well as pruprle streaks and stems.

If you're so convinced it a defeciency, go buy some P and K booster and feed it that. I really think your problem is in pH or uptake problems though, so don't expect it to actually help. It's possible what you're feeding them doesn't have enough P, but since you haven't posted ANY INFORMATION about that, it's hard to say.

So why even ask us? Go buy some P and K booster if you're so sure that's what the problem is. Maybe it is, but it's pretty unlikely that any "standard" nutrient pack wouldn't have enough of either since they're major macro nutrients. P and K boosters are usually not needed until flower, veg. formulas should have sufficient levels.

What size are your pots? They look pretty small for plants that large. Yet another potential uptake problem.

Ok
Botanicare cal mag +

General hydro floranova

General hydro florilicious

That has been base for them.
Also
Additives

Silica also

Not in photo

Here my watering and ph

I mix nutes for a week

I let ph stabilize

I use airstone

I water 5.8

What do you think?

Your questions:
5 gal pot
I'm pretty sure I see blue tint to leaves
There's tons of purple on her

You said salt build up. I clean her out regularly

I make a 200 ppm solution or so and run it through and watch runoff. I don't think salt buildup.

Is there any other method I can clean her pot out with. ?

I would love to be able to do it with 0 ppm water but I don't want to mess things up

It take a bit to clean with 200 ppm water usually I run a lot through her. 2 gallon extras maybe.


Sorry if I sounded like I was blowing you off. Didn't mean to come off that way

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[cnile]

I have been feeding her light. Never over 600 ppm recently. Like past month and a half. Mostly around 400.

She has burnt tips so I do t think it's too light. Maybe it's too much and that's why she isn't getting k?

She's been under metal halide. 600w


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[TheFertilizer]

I think a flush would be a food idea because something strange is going on. How much of the flora nova grow in ppm are you using? That doesn't sound high but the burnt tips and twisting growth does make me think there might be too much nitrogen, and that would be blocking out other nutrient uptake.

Can you check your roots to make sure they're all healthy? I don't know much about hydro systems but I use flora nova and a lot of similar nutrients take you do in soil. I know the salt builds up in the soil a lot, but not sure how that effects a hydro system. Your reservoirs might but be salty but it could be building up on your roots and the medium they're in.

Are they fresh bottles? I read recently flora nova only has a 1 year shelf life.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Is this recirculating or drain to waste?

 

[cnile]

Dtw
Usually

100 ppm cal mag
250 nova grow
50 floralicious plus

No date on bottles. Recently purchased.

Or a little more grow

Always checking roots. Look good.


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[cnile]

I imagine j can probably flush with just

RO water and cal mag

Maybe 100 ppm cal mag

I don't know ill ask someone if they have done that



I mean I just did this

I just flush them with 300 ppm


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[TheFertilizer]

Hmm, okay I think I get a sense of what's happening, and I have to eat crow in a way.

First of all, 250 PPM Flora Nova isn't enough. Secondly, 100 PPM of Cal-Mag is probably too much.

So okay, that Cal Mag has Nitrogen in it too, so the more you add, the more Nitrogen you add. Meanwhile, since you're using FLora Nova Grow formula, it's higher on the N content and that could be why you're using symptoms of burn AND lockout. The nitrogen content is burning, but the high levels of Calcium and Magnesium are causing blockout.

The thing to remember about Flora Nova is that it has Calcium and Magnesium in it already. In fact in pretty heavy concentrations that rival that of the supplements you're using. So when you're using 100 PPM of CalMag and 250 PPM of FLora Nova, you're actually using way more PPM of Calcium and Magnesium then the plant needs and it's causing other lockouts. Add that with the Grow formula and low concentration of it, that's leaving the phosphorous uptake in bad shape.

Nix your supplements for a while. I'm not that famioliar with floraalicious, but isn't it supposed to be used in late flower anyway? I would switch to a 1/2 1/2 mix of Bloom and Grow so that you get a little higher concentration of phosphorous going. In fact, since your N is a little high, you might want to flush it out with some Bloom mix just to give it a break on the N.

 

[cnile]

Well, I may have to eat crow on this one. At 250 PPM, and with the Flora Nova Grow formula, the ppm of phosphorous is probably pretty low. You might want to alternate your supplements by feeding, so instead of doing a 400 PPM mix with 250 PPM of flora nova, just do 400 PPM of Flroa Nova and then the next time you water them feed the supplements. Or instead of using the Flora Nova Grow, use the Bloom or mix them half and half.

Your plants are really big though, so I think they could probably use more than 250 PPM of Flora Nova Only thing that's weird is your tips are burning, which would seem to suggest they've got too much already. I'm sure hydro uptake is more efficient, but in soil, 300 PPM of Flora Nova is like what I give them as a standard feeding during fast growth of vegetation. Your plants are pretty big though, so I really think 250 PPM might be too light.

I would try mixing 1/2 Grow and 1/2 Bloom so that way you're giving it a little bit more P and K. I don't know when you plan to switch to flower, but that will also prime them to be ready for the switch.

It might be too much Cal-Mag too. One thing about Cal Mag is that you CAN use too much, but instead of burning, it will begin to block the uptake of other nutrients. PLUS Flora Nova has Calcium and Magnesium in it already.

Also I'm not familiar with floralicious, but isn't that a sweetener that's supposed to be used at the end of flower?

Firt thing I think I would try in your position is switching to a 400 PPM mix of Flora Nova ONLY. No supplements, or alternate between FN one feed, and your supplements the next.

Thank you. Some of what you suggested I've already done. I think we agree.

I fed her a 1/2 1/2 a couple times and then made her a bucket of low calmag, grow and kool bloom she's getting now.

Others I switched to 12/12 and got a bucket of
3/4 bloom
1/4 grow


How much calmag do they need in flower. Is that major with the p and k?


Floralicious plus is like seeweed extract in Humic acid base.
So kelp and micro nutes.






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[TheFertilizer]

Calcium and Magnesium is probably more important in flower than in vegetative, but the problem here is that the PPM level of Calcium and Magnesium available from Flora Nova is already pretty high. If you up the dose of Flora Nova to cover the amount of P and K you need, then you're also increasing the N and Calcium and Magnesium. Then because Botanicare CalMag Plus has Nitrogen as well, larger doses of that will be increasing Nitrogen, and it looks like you are getting to toxic levels of that.

So if you increase the dose of Flora Nova, you're also increasing Calcium and Magnesium. Since Flora Nova is a really complete base nutrient, you'll probably find that you'll still want to supplement a little Calcium and Magnesium, but for now I think you'll need to have the level of PPM that Flora Nova makes of your mixture to be much higher than 250 out of 400. You won't be cutting Calcium and Magnesium out because the increase in Flora Nova will be increasing them as well. So if you use something like a 400 ppm mix of JUST Flora Nova bloom you'll probably be where you need to be on the P and K, lower the Nitroggen and keep the Calcium and Magnesium about the same.

There are some nutrient calculators you can Google up that will show you how much different PPM's of each nutrient will be in a certain volume concentration. Google "canna nutrient calculator" or "angel fire nutrient calculator"

Here's a link to some PPM guidelines of various nutrients that I follow. THere's an interactive calculator at the bottom where you can input your own figures and see what PPM levels you're at.
CannaStats - Nutrient Profiles for Cannabis

 

[cnile]

Calcium and Magnesium is probably more important in flower than in vegetative, but the problem here is that the PPM level of Calcium and Magnesium available from Flora Nova is already pretty high. If you up the dose of Flora Nova to cover the amount of P and K you need, then you're also increasing the N and Calcium and Magnesium. Then because Botanicare CalMag Plus has Nitrogen as well, larger doses of that will be increasing Nitrogen, and it looks like you are getting to toxic levels of that.

So if you increase the dose of Flora Nova, you're also increasing Calcium and Magnesium. Since Flora Nova is a really complete base nutrient, you'll probably find that you'll still want to supplement a little Calcium and Magnesium, but for now I think you'll need to have the level of PPM that Flora Nova makes of your mixture to be much higher than 250 out of 400. You won't be cutting Calcium and Magnesium out because the increase in Flora Nova will be increasing them as well. So if you use something like a 400 ppm mix of JUST Flora Nova bloom you'll probably be where you need to be on the P and K, lower the Nitroggen and keep the Calcium and Magnesium about the same.

There are some nutrient calculators you can Google up that will show you how much different PPM's of each nutrient will be in a certain volume concentration. Google "canna nutrient calculator" or "angel fire nutrient calculator"

Here's a link to some PPM guidelines of various nutrients that I follow. THere's an interactive calculator at the bottom where you can input your own figures and see what PPM levels you're at.
CannaStats - Nutrient Profiles for Cannabis

I'm glad you did that second one. Now I see why I can't go up in ppm without burn. Thank u.


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[cnile]

I have calimagic cal mag.

See I was thinking I'm using ro water and nutes are made for water that's already 100 ppm cal mag right?

Or what does gen hydro assume my water is


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