Crossing an auto with photo regular pollen

[pw5]

Hi all

So i have been growing for a couple years now in alberta both photo an auto,i have been reading that if you cross a auto flower with regular photo pollen it can reduce the flower period of the photo seeds has anyone got experience/advise on this,i have 2 male plants i have harvested pollen from dutch passion power plant and cement shoes from sunshine farms,i have 4 outdoor autos an gonna cross with this pollen,northern lights,think different,lemon larry,afghan mass,all input appreciated.

 

[Azimuth]

The way autos are produced is to cross a regular plant with ruderalis which is light insensitive for flowering. I would imagine that once those genes are in the plant crossing it with a photoperiod would bring those along, at least for a portion of the offspring.

I'd imagine that it could reduce the time available for veg in those plants, but I'm not sure the flowering time itself is any shorter. That said, I don't grow autos so have nothing to compare it to.

@Jon do you find your autos have a shorter flower period than photos?

 

[Phytoplankton]

Hi all

So i have been growing for a couple years now in alberta both photo an auto,i have been reading that if you cross a auto flower with regular photo pollen it can reduce the flower period of the photo seeds has anyone got experience/advise on this,i have 2 male plants i have harvested pollen from dutch passion power plant and cement shoes from sunshine farms,i have 4 outdoor autos an gonna cross with this pollen,northern lights,think different,lemon larry,afghan mass,all input appreciated.

I grow autos often and in my experience autos take about the same length of time to mature once they flower as photos.

As I understand it, the auto flower gene is a recessive gene. I do not believe it is a gene that presents itself as a continuum, like eye color. So in theory, it shouldn’t shorten anything, because it’s an all or nothing, gene. As a recessive gene it will take two copies of the auto gene to get auto plants. Since ruderalis have been crossed to Sativa/Indica, then bred again to each other, to get both parents to have the recessive auto gene, at that point you’re chances are one in four of getting an auto. But I’m gonna caveat this response with “My last genetics class was over 40 years ago.”

 

[Pat Puffer]

I crossed a regular with an auto. The out come was a super sensitive plant that flowered about a month early and went a full 8 weeks.

They also were a pain to try and keep as a bonsai. They needed a full 24 to keep out of flower mode. Once time was tampered they went to flower.

I believe usual flower time out doors at the 38th parallel was early mid August and these half autos flowered early July.

As someone mentioned, the auto gene is recessive. One would have to interbreed these half autos with one another to accomplish another auto strain. As also mentioned it would theoretically be 1:4. Even that is not a guarantee as genetics are not quite mathematics.

I wouldn't say that the flower period was shortened as much as they flowered earlier.

 

[DV8]

Glad someone asked the question.

Just so I am 100% clear on ratios and traits, let me ask a further question.

The trait (recessive) you guys are refering to is auto flowering, as in non photo, as in will automatically flower regardless of dlh length correct?

And when you say 1 of 4, you mean
1 auto seed (double recessive trait enabled)
and 3 photo seeds (photo dominant auto recessive)

in the resulting seeds from crossing a double dominant photo with a double recessive autò?

Is that correct?

Or in percentage 25:75.

What, if any, traits are expressed in the photo dominant seeds in regards to flowering? Is there ANY noticable flowering difference/s or purely an expression of the regular photo genes?

So curious. Hopefully havent butchered those questions.

Edit. If it helps I breed birds with different dominant and recessive traits so shorthand is fine.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Glad someone asked the question.

Just so I am 100% clear on ratios and traits, let me ask a further question.

The trait (recessive) you guys are refering to is auto flowering, as in non photo, as in will automatically flower regardless of dlh length correct? Yes

And when you say 1 of 4, you mean
1 auto seed (double recessive trait enabled)
and 3 photo seeds (photo dominant auto recessive) Yes

in the resulting seeds from crossing a double dominant photo with a double recessive autò? No, see below

Is that correct?

Or in percentage 25:75.

What, if any, traits are expressed in the photo dominant seeds in regards to flowering? Is there ANY noticable flowering difference/s or purely an expression of the regular photo genes?

So curious. Hopefully havent butchered those questions.

Edit. If it helps I breed birds with different dominant and recessive traits so shorthand is fine.

If you cross an Auto (aa) to a double dominant Photo (PP) the resulting seeds will all be dominant for photo (Pa, aP) and should not express any auto-flower tendencies, if you then cross those seeds (Pa, aP X Pa, aP), you'll get (statistically) three photo dominant (Pa, aP, PP) and 1 auto dominant (aa).

Hope that helps.

Edit: I would caution that you need to be careful with the seeds from the 2nd cross, the 50% (Pa, aP), will have a recessive for auto, 25% will be full photos (PP) and 25% will be full auto (aa). You do NOT want to get the aP, Pa) into the general cannabis gene pool!!!! (There's also no way to know which are auto recessive (aP, Pa) and which are full photo (PP), because they'll act the same. You need to destroy them or at least control their dissemination. Last thing growers need is a bunch of recessive gene for auto plants floating around diluting the gene pool and potentially causing unintended autos. Cross an auto with an auto and you'll always get an auto (aa).

 

[DV8]

Thank you @Phytoplankton that is 100% clearer to me, and to everyone now.

The way you have explained it I wont go down the rabbit hole of latent and non latent recessive. Thats been a huge help in determining parentage.

Ill stick to tried and true should I go down the breeding path.

(Edit: To achieve autos crossing aa x aa of known parentage and genetics. Its obvious to me to bring in a photo strain, a PP, requires an additional backcross of which is both time consuming and the targeted gene expression of the PP runs a 1:8 ratio of expression of latency.
Ive bred enough birds to understand you can run many pairings looking for gene expression that only shows up significantly less than statistically is probable, in this case not the aa trait, but the phenotype expression of the PP parent in the resulting aa backcross
Murphy said it best: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
Bad traits breed faster than good! ).

I feel like this might explain some of the non auto autos that people refer to in their grows sometimes from breeders.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

A lot of breeders are selling f1 crosses of photo X auto plants as "fast" strains.
I don't have much experience with them so far though. I had an "Amnesia fast", and one plant I'm growing right now is "Black Amnesia Haze fast".
The Af, started flowering a bit later than some of the others in that grow. She started building buds around the end of the first week of August, like the Blue Dreams I grew that year, but she was finished by October 8th.
The BAHf has pistils showing up on the upper nodes, and has just started to show signs of stretching. I can't comment on how fast she'll flower yet.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Who said stoners are smart?! Y'all are wicked smart.

 

[bluter]

what you get winds up all over the map. you can't predict what the pheno is going to do. what you've done is taken genetics that are supposed to be a predictable auto, and thrown it back to a total question.

on the math phyto's got it. but the 3/4 of the equation are not going to be solidly auto or photo. 1/4 should be predictably auto.