Coots Mix No-Till Earthworm Question

[Hayron1088]

Just ordered all the ingredients for the Coot's Mix Medium. i have roughly 1500 red wigglers in a 40 gal compost bin but i dont want to use those until next cycle. what worms would be best for my grow? im using AC Infinity 7 gal fabric pots. Im also changing the mix a little bit simply because im cheap and have an abundance of DrE dry amendments for all stages of growth. Ill be using that instead of Karanja Cake and Crustacean meal. Of that is not a good idea please let me know so i can adjust it properly. I had one other question also, once you get the mix cooked and everything, do you have to amend throughout the grow? or does the mix take care of it? Thats pretty much the bigglest question i had in regards to the Coots Mix. I just found out that FFOF no longer uses organic inputs and they spray synthetic nutes on the soil instead. Mark Boutwell from Perfect Gardens mentioned in on a Tube video not long ago. hope i can get some answers from the pros!

I know i mentioned some companies above 420mag but i didnt know how else to word it sorry, please dont delete!!

 

[bobrown14]

Coots mix is a water only soil mix. He specifically suggested to not substitute. Its like baking a cake. Its not a gumbo recipe.

Get the Karanja and Neem cake and crustacean meal.

We worked with Coots way back when, he was creating that recipe and we tried all sorts of stuff and ended up with this recipe. Follow the recipe.

As an aside you dont need to amend.

This will be a living soil. In a living soil you don't need to feed the plant. That approach is something completely different and a different mind set all together.

Feed the soil.
Soil microbes break down the soil into soluble nutrients the plant can uptake.

How does the plant tell the soil microbes which nutrients it needs at any given point in time?

A: Root exudate

Plants communicate with the microbes via root exudate. The root exudate is a dynamic process and the plant changes the type and makeup of the root exudate depending on the plants needs at that given point in time and it changes every second.

With the coots mix soil recipe everything the soil/plant needs is there in the soil mix. You're growing microbes those microbes help grow the plant.


On you worms - dont add them to your pots. They wont stay in there because the container is too small (7 gal) - there wont be enough food they will leave as in crawl out of the pot or die.

On "cooking" you soil mix. It's not necessary. I've made a mix and planted in it after the mycelium die back on the surface. Just water the soil mix after you mixed it and cover and let it sit about a week is all you need. When you see the white fuzzy stuff on the surface of the soil mix you're on the right track. That will die back after about a week you soil is ready.

For seedlings you need to start them in some old used soil, there will be too much soil microbes in the new soil mix and they will eat up seedlings. So start your seedlings in another soil or just peat moss and worm castings is good enough. I use peat pellets then into old soil for a few weeks once hardened off into coots mix soil.

You can amend at flip to flower with some kelp meal mixed with malted barley and ewc. Thats it all you need to do and water.

 

[BakedARea]

Just ordered all the ingredients for the Coot's Mix Medium. i have roughly 1500 red wigglers in a 40 gal compost bin but i dont want to use those until next cycle. what worms would be best for my grow? im using AC Infinity 7 gal fabric pots. Im also changing the mix a little bit simply because im cheap and have an abundance of DrE dry amendments for all stages of growth. Ill be using that instead of Karanja Cake and Crustacean meal. Of that is not a good idea please let me know so i can adjust it properly. I had one other question also, once you get the mix cooked and everything, do you have to amend throughout the grow? or does the mix take care of it? Thats pretty much the bigglest question i had in regards to the Coots Mix. I just found out that FFOF no longer uses organic inputs and they spray synthetic nutes on the soil instead. Mark Boutwell from Perfect Gardens mentioned in on a Tube video not long ago. hope i can get some answers from the pros!

I know i mentioned some companies above 420mag but i didnt know how else to word it sorry, please dont delete!!

Bobrown hit all the points I was going to mention. There are always multiple ways to go about things but if your goal is to have a water only grow, then stick to the recipe.

As for the worms, I agree and disagree with bobrown. I almost always add worms to my soil grows. Pulling a handful from your 1500 wouldn't hurt anything and would be a worthwhile addition, in my opinion.

I would say that in nearly all my pots that I reuse, I always have a population of them at the end of the season. As long as there is food and moisture, they will stay and work as bobrown alluded to.

Also, worms have a way of regulating their populations. I don't have a full understanding of how they do that but it seems to be working on many of my containers. I left a few fabric pots from last years grows outside and every single one still had a population of worms from adults to babies.

Best of luck on your grow and looking forward to seeing it progress. Be sure to keep posting about it. I need to get my ass in gear and make a complete soil mix that doesn't require further nutrients.

 

[bobrown14]

I have worms in my pots but not very many, i've never purposely added any.
There are only a few. If you want to maintain a mulch layer then worms will be fine but again the OPs pot size at 7gal is pretty small for a bunch of worms they eat a lot of food you need to feed them.
I have a vermi-compost bin where all my worms are living and just screen the compost from that and use that in my soil mix. There will be cacoons that make it in to the soil and they will hatch and self regulate population as mentioned.

 

[Hayron1088]

Coots mix is a water only soil mix. He specifically suggested to not substitute. Its like baking a cake. Its not a gumbo recipe.

Get the Karanja and Neem cake and crustacean meal.

We worked with Coots way back when, he was creating that recipe and we tried all sorts of stuff and ended up with this recipe. Follow the recipe.

As an aside you dont need to amend.

This will be a living soil. In a living soil you don't need to feed the plant. That approach is something completely different and a different mind set all together.

Feed the soil.
Soil microbes break down the soil into soluble nutrients the plant can uptake.

How does the plant tell the soil microbes which nutrients it needs at any given point in time?

A: Root exudate

Plants communicate with the microbes via root exudate. The root exudate is a dynamic process and the plant changes the type and makeup of the root exudate depending on the plants needs at that given point in time and it changes every second.

With the coots mix soil recipe everything the soil/plant needs is there in the soil mix. You're growing microbes those microbes help grow the plant.


On you worms - dont add them to your pots. They wont stay in there because the container is too small (7 gal) - there wont be enough food they will leave as in crawl out of the pot or die.

On "cooking" you soil mix. It's not necessary. I've made a mix and planted in it after the mycelium die back on the surface. Just water the soil mix after you mixed it and cover and let it sit about a week is all you need. When you see the white fuzzy stuff on the surface of the soil mix you're on the right track. That will die back after about a week you soil is ready.

For seedlings you need to start them in some old used soil, there will be too much soil microbes in the new soil mix and they will eat up seedlings. So start your seedlings in another soil or just peat moss and worm castings is good enough. I use peat pellets then into old soil for a few weeks once hardened off into coots mix soil.

You can amend at flip to flower with some kelp meal mixed with malted barley and ewc. Thats it all you need to do and water.

Wow thank you for taking the time to reply, very in-depth and informative so thank you. I just ordered everything but the neem cake and karanja cake this morning so I’ll get on the rest tomorrow. I’m think king that before I mix all this and get ready for transplant that I should use bigger pots. Agree? Using 7 gal fabric pots now.

 

[Azimuth]

For seedlings you need to start them in some old used soil, there will be too much soil microbes in the new soil mix and they will eat up seedlings. So start your seedlings in another soil or just peat moss and worm castings is good enough. I use peat pellets then into old soil for a few weeks once hardened off into coots mix soil.

How about cuttings, same idea? I know they say to feed clones with the same nutrients the mother was getting which is not true for seedlings.

 

[SmokingWings]

Coots mix is a water only soil mix. He specifically suggested to not substitute. Its like baking a cake. Its not a gumbo recipe.

Excellent analogy. Skip one ingredient or make the wrong substitution and the cake is a failure. Same goes with bread, miss something or change a step and it is not a loaf of bread and instead is a 'hardtack' found like what was on a sailing ship in the 1700s.

you want to maintain a mulch layer then worms will be fine but again the OPs pot size at 7gal is pretty small for a bunch of worms they eat a lot of food you need to feed them.

Yes on the mulch layer and feeding them. Also need to keep the container of soil cool and moist. I had some earthworms show up in my 10 gallon pot of soil. My thought was that they were brought in either in the root ball of the plant when transplanting from the ground outside to a pot for the inside tent. More likely they were in the compost that was in the soil mix.

They also seem to prefer cooler soil. The smaller the pot of soil the quicker it will get up to the temperature inside the tent when the lights are on. Outside they will dig down to a cooler area as the soil near the surface gets hot during the summer. Many tents are kept at temperatures in the 70s and up to the low 80s so the pots of soil can get very warm. Not much cool soil which is one of the reason some growers say that they have found their earthworms dried up in the saucer.

 

[seaofgreen18]

Just ordered all the ingredients for the Coot's Mix Medium. i have roughly 1500 red wigglers in a 40 gal compost bin but i dont want to use those until next cycle. what worms would be best for my grow? im using AC Infinity 7 gal fabric pots. Im also changing the mix a little bit simply because im cheap and have an abundance of DrE dry amendments for all stages of growth. Ill be using that instead of Karanja Cake and Crustacean meal. Of that is not a good idea please let me know so i can adjust it properly. I had one other question also, once you get the mix cooked and everything, do you have to amend throughout the grow? or does the mix take care of it? Thats pretty much the bigglest question i had in regards to the Coots Mix. I just found out that FFOF no longer uses organic inputs and they spray synthetic nutes on the soil instead. Mark Boutwell from Perfect Gardens mentioned in on a Tube video not long ago. hope i can get some answers from the pros!

I know i mentioned some companies above 420mag but i didnt know how else to word it sorry, please dont delete!!

Research research research, I've found most growers tell you to put worms in your soil mix I've found that NOT to be true. Not all earthworms are created equal all's I gotta say is if you're using red wigglers and or Euros in you soil your just killing your worms because 1 they are in the first couple inches of soil and 2 ND is that's NOT the environment they like and your just wasting your money best plan is to do your own worm bin and do it that way even if you have Blumat soakers it's still NOT the right environment for those kind of worms Read the worm farmers handbook. The Urban worm bag is the way to go and harvesting your own castings and cacoons is a more sustainable venture Good luck

 

[seaofgreen18]

Research research research, I've found most growers tell you to put worms in your soil mix I've found that NOT to be true. Not all earthworms are created equal all's I gotta say is if you're using red wigglers and or Euros in you soil your just killing your worms because 1 they are in the first couple inches of soil and 2 ND is that's NOT the environment they like and your just wasting your money best plan is to do your own worm bin and do it that way even if you have Blumat soakers it's still NOT the right environment for those kind of worms Read the worm farmers handbook. The Urban worm bag is the way to go and harvesting your own castings and cacoons is a more sustainable venture Good luck

KIS organic in Washington KIS ORGANICS.COM they are the experts with organic growing questions coots actually has an affiliation with them and they do some REALLY GOOD pod casts

 

[Azimuth]

KIS organic in Washington KIS ORGANICS.COM they are the experts with organic growing questions coots actually has an affiliation with them and they do some REALLY GOOD pod casts

Same with Build A Soil and Jeremy.

 

[seaofgreen18]

Same with Build A Soil and Jeremy.

Bought from them before just took to long for shipping they do have some good products I like that mushroom straw bail they carry

 

[Hayron1088]

I’ve been following Jeremy for quite some time now. All I use is homemade amendments or his products.

 

[seaofgreen18]

I’ve been following Jeremy for quite some time now. All I use is homemade amendments or his products.

Like I said good product good knowledge but just takes to long for the stuff to get here I follow Tad and Clackamas coot on their podcasts on YouTube these guys have helped me in the way of organic I did organic back in the late 80's and early 90's but somehow got sidetracked on hydro I wasn't to impressed ( to costly) so I went back to organic and because it's legal now there is ALOT more information out there and studies being done by the universitys now but back in the day it was fly by a wing and a prayer and a bunch of me and my drunken smoking buddies sitting around trying to figure out how to produce more and better quality quality flowers as well as the bubble hash bags and such so I appreciate KIS organic and Clackamas for doing the work for me and just giving me the answer on all my questions because I got to tell you there are some fucked up ppl on some of these sites who don't got a clue on how to grow herb let alone good tasting herb without no heavy metals and disease

 

[chinchillin]

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