Continuing problem that I can't diagnose

[kushnboots]

Hi all. Been lurking for awhile but this is my first post. Could really use some help. On the verge of catastrophe! Several months ago a weird ailment started showing up in my grows. It affects about 15-20% of the plants and doesn't seem to be connected to the growing medium, nutrients, temperature, light or humidity. It's happened during veg and flower, hydro and soil, ionic, botanicare and an nutes, in two different rooms. The first sign it is occuring is that the new growth will be wilted and mottled, with curled leaves that have raised edges. Growth doesn't seem to be slowed though, just stunted with very narrow leaves (I thought humidity at first but it's at 50%). I have a 12 plant scrog 5 weeks in and right now 3 of the plants are displaying this issue. buds appear stunted and odd, leaves are stunted, mottled and narrow. Yesterday I discovered a bad aphid infestation in this scrog and thought this was the cause of the issue, but I am having the same problem with one plant in a 6 bucket dwc system and 2 plants in a 6 pot hydro bin in another area of the room. The rest of the plants are the same strain getting the same nutes in the same medium and are not affected...yet...but some new growth is starting to look suspicious. I immediately inspected the affected plants for aphids but there are no insects or eggs on the plants or roots, so I'm suspecting that my aphid infestation in the scrog is a second problem and not related to the poor plant growth, but I am not sure. Here a some pictures. The last one is the most obvious and indicative of the problem. Any ideas?

 

[IneedTHISplz]

I wish I could tell you but I am actually in seek of what sounds rather similar, 3 weeks old leafs r larger than plant is tall. the sides are curled upward and a leaf started to look like it was wilting. Checking ph and leveling it out actually seem to help it but still same look. I also am using DWC 5 buckets 4 buckets w/3 plants ONLY ONE IS AFFECTED. WHY ME? you know or anyone whom may please help us both

thanks

 

[Goldengoose7]

Can you post clearer photos? Those image are really blurry and pixelated on my iPad and laptop.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

EDIT: Nevermind about the photo issue. Must be a problem with Forum Runner which is what I use to view this forum sometimes on my iPad. I am here on my 27" iMac right now and the photos look fine.

 

[IneedTHISplz]

I wish I could tell you but I am actually in seek of what sounds rather similar, 3 weeks old leafs r larger than plant is tall. the sides are curled upward and a leaf started to look like it was wilting. Checking ph and leveling it out actually seem to help it but still same look. I also am using DWC 5 buckets 4 buckets w/3 plants ONLY ONE IS AFFECTED. WHY ME? you know or anyone whom may please help us both

thanks

same 1 different shots

 

[Goldengoose7]

So... Looks to me like you are either overwatering them or you have a PH problem with either your water or the soil. Leaf curling upwards and other odd leaf behavior can often be traced back to too either too much water, or watering with a low PH water (Below 5.5) or a soil PH also down in the low 5 range. (acidic) The lower the number, the more acidic the water, feed or soil is.

I try to keep my feeds PHed at 6.5 - 6.8 and our well water here is 7.5 which is about perfect to achieve a soil PH of just around 6.8 which is where you want to be.

Cannabis prefers an Alkaline leaning soil (7.0 and higher as a base) over an acidic one. Like I said.... 6.5 to 6.8 is the number to shoot for.

 

[IneedTHISplz]

Thanks a lot. after posting i thought to test ph with the little bottle n match kit.my Ph was like over 8 so added a drop - to equal went to a 3. then up now I am at steady 6-6.5. raised light slightly problem is still there but looking vewry LIVELY my temp is down 86.
i just started a journal and am doing the whole read it all. spent to much at a hydro store when i now just made a kit. started hope 3 seedlings tonight idk name but REAL LY DARK Green, light, n red.... g
thanks

 

[kushnboots]

Hijack much??

I wish I could tell you but I am actually in seek of what sounds rather similar, 3 weeks old leafs r larger than plant is tall. the sides are curled upward and a leaf started to look like it was wilting. Checking ph and leveling it out actually seem to help it but still same look. I also am using DWC 5 buckets 4 buckets w/3 plants ONLY ONE IS AFFECTED. WHY ME? you know or anyone whom may please help us both

thanks

same 1 different shots

 

[kushnboots]

Hijack much??

I wish I could tell you but I am actually in seek of what sounds rather similar, 3 weeks old leafs r larger than plant is tall. the sides are curled upward and a leaf started to look like it was wilting. Checking ph and leveling it out actually seem to help it but still same look. I also am using DWC 5 buckets 4 buckets w/3 plants ONLY ONE IS AFFECTED. WHY ME? you know or anyone whom may please help us bo

 

[IneedTHISplz]

SORRY BOUT THE "HIJACK". I'm new obviously, didn't know how to go about it....

to the problem this morning when they woke up it looked sickly, turn on flour. to see n wake for like 15-20min then I got a Dual Arc Bulb i put i set it to 500watts from 350watts. one leaf i touched still looks shady but the rest has shown improvment overnight and thus far today.
BTW I have learned how to work site so i have my journal and blog... hope we find answer

 

[IneedTHISplz]

tell me how to remove and it will b gone....

My bad KushnBoots....
DID YOU GET AN ANSWER?

 

[kushnboots]

No problem. No answers either. Are yours from clones?

tell me how to remove and it will b gone....

My bad KushnBoots....
DID YOU GET AN ANSWER?

 

[Goldengoose7]

No problem. No answers either. Are yours from clones?

Actually... my response was to YOU Kushboots.

Move those lights up a bit and try holding off on watering so much. Indoors they only need it every 4-6 days unless you are using Air Pots whereas you will be more at 3-4 days.

Check the PH of the water you are using and make sure that it is in the 6.5 - 7.5 range. Soil PH should be about 6.8 for ideal plant performance.

 

[kushnboots]

Oh, sorry goldengoose, don't want to appear unappreciative. I thought you were talking to the other guy. Can you get an over-watering situation with hydro? I have 2 - 6 pot 18 gallon hydro bins. They have an air stone in each and are both full, and the problem has now effected both bins. I also have a 6 bucket aero system that sprays the roots every hour or so for 15 minutes. I went the other route and changed it yesterday to spray the roots full time. Should I change that? I really don't know how long the sprayers should run as each bucket stays about 1/4 full so some of the roots are always in water.

Actually... my response was to YOU Kushboots.

Move those lights up a bit and try holding off on watering so much. Indoors they only need it every 4-6 days unless you are using Air Pots whereas you will be more at 3-4 days.

Check the PH of the water you are using and make sure that it is in the 6.5 - 7.5 range. Soil PH should be about 6.8 for ideal plant performance.

 

[kushnboots]

When this problem first occurred it happened in a 6 pot 18 gallon hydro bin that had an air stone in it. Nutrient solution was a/n m-g-b with aqua-shield and b52. Have had good luck with it in the past. PH always around 6 and ppm of 900 or so. Plant growth was fine until maturity (or close to it) then this problem popped up. I inspected the bin and found the roots to be brown and slimy and everything in the bin was also covered with slime. Plants were twisted and disfigured and almost appeared to have a waxy buidup. I figured it was root rot because I had it in a room with a 1k watt light that got the solution up to about 80 degrees. Usually I keep the hydro grows in front of the a/c and around 65 degrees so I figured it was just a screw up. Killed the plants and cleaned the bin and haven't reused it. Figured that root rot happened because of high temps and the problem was solved. However, the condition soon popped up in two out of three soil potted plants that were very near the hydro container I just pulled. Can root rot spread through contact? Anyway, I put those two pots in a dark bathroom and quit watering them. This was more than 45 days ago and the third plant is still thriving in the original location. After 2 weeks or so in the bathroom the two potted plants actually appeared better. Very little light and no water. In fact, they seemed to improve right up until they finally died. They didn't grow much but the bad growth disappeared and didn't spread and everything looked healthy until they died.

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Goldengoose7]

I don't really have any hydro experience outside of my Turbo Klone sessions. All I can say is that Cannabis prefers a steady PH of between 6.5 and 6.8. A PH of 6 is a bit low in my opinion and an acidic solution could lead to the problems I saw in your photos. Depending on the accuracy of your PH meter which can often be off by up to .2 or more depending on quality, you could have actually been in the high 5s which would most definitely cause problems long term.

Your plants look like they are suffering from a low PH environment.

What PH meter are you using?

 

[kushnboots]

Turns out it was broad mites. I've posted this problem on a few different sights and someone pointed me in that direction. Checked the affected plants with a microscope and sure enough, they they were. Now to find a way to get rid of them!

Thanks for the responses.

I don't really have any hydro experience outside of my Turbo Klone sessions. All I can say is that Cannabis prefers a steady PH of between 6.5 and 6.8. A PH of 6 is a bit low in my opinion and an acidic solution could lead to the problems I saw in your photos. Depending on the accuracy of your PH meter which can often be off by up to .2 or more depending on quality, you could have actually been in the high 5s which would most definitely cause problems long term.

Your plants look like they are suffering from a low PH environment.

What PH meter are you using?

 

[IneedTHISplz]

I may have fixed the problem ....
I changed the water and Nutrients, added just a bit extra for nitrogen, I guess that nutrients work well to buff the ph levels, after filling water-testing (at 8), mixed the nutrients-tested (at 5.5-6). Perfect? I had four and 1 died in begininning, bucteckt was removed from cycle allowing the res to be moved as well, away from light to help w/temp, also turned up the power to 500watt big difference but worry i do not want the problems to come back (if they are really gone). My bad jumpin in on your thread, you have helped a lot.

i was thinking actually of doing and aero setup do you notice/think it works better than RC-DWC DRIP?
ONE IS SPRAYING ROOTS AND OTHER JUST WATERS FROM TOP DOWN..... Am I on righht path?

thanks

 

[Goldengoose7]

Turns out it was broad mites. I've posted this problem on a few different sights and someone pointed me in that direction. Checked the affected plants with a microscope and sure enough, they they were. Now to find a way to get rid of them!

Thanks for the responses.

Hmmmm...Never heard of them. Of course I have dealt with Spider Mites in the past as most growers do from time to time, but your plants showed no evidence of those, so I assumed it was something other than an insect problem.

It is always a good idea to inspect the underside of your plant's leaves with a 10x loupe or small microscope when you begin having a problem with leaf appearance, but again, never heard of these critters before.

Glad you were able to identify the problem! Still stay on your PH numbers though! A low PH can lower a plant's resistance to fiighting off invaders of all kinds. SNS is always a good product line to turn to for bugs. They are a sponsor here and I bet their Spider Mite control spray might also work on these too! Neem Oil is another possible solution and what most of those Insecticidal Soaps use as their main ingredient.

Hope you can get them under control and after that is done good luck with your grow!

 

[kushnboots]

I had never heard of them either, but there's no doubt I've got them. What does SNS stand for? Or is that the product name? Thanks for all your help!

Hmmmm...Never heard of them. Of course I have dealt with Spider Mites in the past as most growers do from time to time, but your plants showed no evidence of those, so I assumed it was something other than an insect problem.

It is always a good idea to inspect the underside of your plant's leaves with a 10x loupe or small microscope when you begin having a problem with leaf appearance, but again, never heard of these critters before.

Glad you were able to identify the problem! Still stay on your PH numbers though! A low PH can lower a plant's resistance to fiighting off invaders of all kinds. SNS is always a good product line to turn to for bugs. They are a sponsor here and I bet their Spider Mite control spray might also work on these too! Neem Oil is another possible solution and what most of those Insecticidal Soaps use as their main ingredient.

Hope you can get them under control and after that is done good luck with your grow!

 

[Goldengoose7]

Check the prizes list on the PLANT OF THE MONTH front page. A bunch of their stuff is listed on there as prizes. I have used their stuff a lot and it is quality organic solutions to common issues with indoor grows as well as outdoor ones.

They have one of the best working/well built spray bottle tops I have ever used! I always save them when I run out of their stuff and keep the tops for us as misters and whatnot in normal water bottles that usually have the same threads on the top.

If you have an AeroCloner like the Turbo Klone T48 I use, it wouldn't hurt to give it a shot. I just use mine for cloning, but you could actually grow plants all the way in there if you had the height and surrounding space to do it. I don't have that here, so I just clone with it.