I'm about to start working towards my Bachelors Degree in Horticulture so I've doing some extra research. I came across an article where someone used coconut water almost as a total replacement for all nutrients (although I believe this person was using real organic living soil). So just curious, does anyone on here have any experience with it?
Coconut Water
- Thread starter Celia Jr
- Start date
I started using this about a week ago and my plants seem to really love it. I am growing in Roots organic soil and at this point I am only giving them the coconut, aloe vera juice and kelp. Be sure to check your PH because I've found this mixture to be very acidic.
Psi Haze
New Member
want my opinion? that aloe juice is slimy and it will cause your roots to rot unless you are using something like 50% perlite. Too much sugars in the medium will NOT produce a plant-friendly environment. The sugars will break down and turn into a vinegar. Vinegar is a worthless acid for cannabis. However, the coconut water is FILLED with potassium and low on salts, so.. You could get results from coconut water. You have to remember, the coconut water has very little nitrogen, phosphorus, and sulfur.. It has some of the listed requirements but low in them.. Coconut water actually has more sodium (salt) in it than all required nutrients except potassium. you cannot use this as a "stand-alone" because it is lacking the required and essential nutrients to survive.
Kelp is usually high in potassium and low on phosphorus and nitrogen. coconut milk and kelp combination will leave you with a fertilizer high in potassium and low in everything else the plant needs. So I would say NO, coconut milk is NOT a stand-alone fertilizer, neither is kelp.
my meds seem to love well-water, guano, and kelp.. Honestly, that Kelp is great!
Kelp is usually high in potassium and low on phosphorus and nitrogen. coconut milk and kelp combination will leave you with a fertilizer high in potassium and low in everything else the plant needs. So I would say NO, coconut milk is NOT a stand-alone fertilizer, neither is kelp.
my meds seem to love well-water, guano, and kelp.. Honestly, that Kelp is great!
- Thread starter
- #4
I'm sure most of that acidity came from the Aloe Vera juice. How is the Roots Organic Soil treating you? I've been looking into Ideal420Soil
- Thread starter
- #5
Thanks for the input Psi Haze! Whats your take on Club Soda? I wouldn't use coconut water as a stand alone but I am interested in experimenting with it.
green coconut water is a source of cytokinins, a powerful growth enzyme. here is some information from buildasoil for you to check out.
re: cytokinins
"Cytokinin: A Plant Hormone. (Coconut Water and Corn SST)
March 05 2014, 0 Comments
Cytokinins
Have you been reading about using Coconut Water or Corn SST?
What are these Cytokinins anyways? Check out this detailed information.
Nature of Cytokinins:
Cytokinins are compounds with a structure resembling adenine which promote cell division and have other similar functions to kinetin. Kinetin was the first cytokinin discovered and so named because of the compounds ability to promote cytokinesis (cell division). Though it is a natural compound, It is not made in plants, and is therefore usually considered a "synthetic" cytokinin (meaning that the hormone is synthesized somewhere other than in a plant). The most common form of naturally occurring cytokinin in plants today is called zeatin which was isolated from corn (Zea mays).
Cytokinins have been found in almost all higher plants as well as mosses, fungi, bacteria, and also in tRNA of many prokaryotes and eukaryotes. Today there are more than 200 natural and synthetic cytokinins combined. Cytokinin concentrations are highest in meristematic regions and areas of continuous growth potential such as roots, young leaves, developing fruits, and seeds (Arteca, 1996; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).
History of Cytokinins
In 1913, Gottlieb Haberlandt discovered that a compound found in phloem had the ability to stimulate cell division (Haberlandt, 1913). In 1941, Johannes van Overbeek discovered that the milky endosperm from coconut also had this ability. He also showed that various other plant species had compounds which stimulated cell division (van Overbeek, 1941). In 1954, Jablonski and Skoog extended the work of Haberlandt showing that vascular tissues contained compounds which promote cell division (Jablonski and Skoog, 1954). The first cytokinin was isolated from herring sperm in 1955 by Miller and his associates (Miller et al., 1955). This compound was named kinetin because of its ability to promote cytokinesis. Hall and deRopp reported that kinetin could be formed from DNA degradation products in 1955 (Hall and deRopp, 1955). The first naturally occurring cytokinin was isolated from corn in 1961 by Miller (Miller, 1961). It was later called zeatin. Almost simultaneous with Miller Letham published a report on zeatin as a factor inducing cell division and later described its chemical properties (Letham, 1963). It is Miller and Letham that are credited with the simultaneous discovery of zeatin. Since that time, many more naturally occurring cytokinins have been isolated and the compound is ubiquitous to all plant species in one form or another (Arteca, 1996; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).
Biosynthesis and Metabolism of Cytokinins
Cytokinin is generally found in higher concentrations in meristematic regions and growing tissues. They are believed to be synthesized in the roots and translocated via the xylem to shoots. Cytokinin biosynthesis happens through the biochemical modification of adenine. The process by which they are synthesized is as follows (McGaw, 1995; Salisbury and Ross, 1992):
A product of the mevalonate pathway called isopentyl pyrophosphate is isomerized.
This isomer can then react with adenosine monophosphate with the aid of an enzyme called isopentenyl AMP synthase.
The result is isopentenyl adenosine-5'-phosphate (isopentenyl AMP).
This product can then be converted to isopentenyl adenosine by removal of the phosphate by a phosphatase and further converted to isopentenyl adenine by removal of the ribose group.
Isopentenyl adenine can be converted to the three major forms of naturally occurring cytokinins.
Other pathways or slight alterations of this one probably lead to the other forms.
Degradation of cytokinins occurs largely due to the enzyme cytokinin oxidase. This enzyme removes the side chain and releases adenine. Derivitives can also be made but the pathways are more complex and poorly understood.
Cytokinin Functions
A list of some of the known physiological effects caused by cytokinins are listed below. The response will vary depending on the type of cytokinin and plant species (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).
•Stimulates cell division.
•Stimulates morphogenesis (shoot initiation/bud formation) in tissue culture.
•Stimulates the growth of lateral buds-release of apical dominance.
•Stimulates leaf expansion resulting from cell enlargement.
•May enhance stomatal opening in some species.
•Promotes the conversion of etioplasts into chloroplasts via stimulation of chlorophyll synthesis.
The illustration above shows the effect of cytokinin and auxin concentration on tissue culture experiments (Mauseth, 1991)
Source: https://www.plant-hormones.info/cytokinins.htm"
re: sprouted corn seed
"Corn is known to be high in Cytokinins.
"Cytokinins will increase the girth and tinsel strength of the side branches and stronger branches will produce larger and heavier flowers." -Clackamas Coots
Instead of buying an expensive enzyme product in a bottle, you can make your own!
Cytokinin Functions
A list of some of the known physiological effects caused by cytokinins are listed below. The response will vary depending on the type of cytokinin and plant species (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).
•Stimulates cell division.
•Stimulates morphogenesis (shoot initiation/bud formation) in tissue culture.
•Stimulates the growth of lateral buds-release of apical dominance.
•Stimulates leaf expansion resulting from cell enlargement.
•May enhance stomatal opening in some species.
•Promotes the conversion of etioplasts into chloroplasts via stimulation of chlorophyll synthesis.
Super Sprouted Tea Version 2.0: (Credit to some old Coot)
56 Grams Corn Seed (2 Ounces)
Soak for 12-24 hours with Clean Water
Sprout seeds until tail is 1/2 inch long or about 1-2 days.
Blend in a food blender or whatever you have with a little bit of water to help it blend.
Add this to 5 gallons water and you have one of the worlds most nutritious Plant Enzyme Teas available for PENNIES"
sprouted corn gets the job done cheaper than coconut water, same results. either are an awesome way to push an already awesome living organic soil grow to the max! Good find celia jr!
nope.
To me, these statements seem ridiculous. aloe is an amazing plant to use all over the garden. It sounds like some research on salicylic acid and saponins is in order to discover the benefits of aloe. slimy sugary root rotter? no sir.
celia Jr you have an incoming PM. I understand you cant respond to these yet.
- Thread starter
- #10
Much appreciated COorganics. Honestly I'm not new to this, just new to experimenting with different options. One of the main reasons I'm going to school for horticulture is my fascination with soil science so naturally(pun intended), I am dying to get into LOS, I'm hoping to get it going as soon as I can take cuttings from my Jack The Ripper. If you don't mind checking out my grow journal, i have been having some issues with it so I hit them with club soda but I could really use any input Celia Jr's - Soil - Jack The Ripper - TGA - Grow Journal
Cannabelle
New Member
I buy cases of coconut water at Costco along with bottled water for my own hydration. Good childhood memories of hot days at the flea market in Hawaii and beach picnics with the grandparents where the young Hawaiian beach boys would climb tall coconut palms and toss green coconuts in make shift trash can coolers loaded with ice. The beach boys lop the top of the nut and plop a straw in. Chilled green coconut was a prized treat for the kids because after you were done with quenching your thirst, you scoop-up the soft creamy flesh which was the equivalent of ice cream to the Hawaiians.
If I see a potassium or phosphor deficiency creep into a leaf or 2, I add some of the Costco coconut water to my plant watering mix. I'm going to use whatever is available because that's the way my grandmother trained me back in Hawaii. She's resourceful like Macguyver!
Coconut water contains the following trace elements:
Calcium (2%)
Iron (2%)
Magnesium (7%)
Phosphorus (3%)
Potassium (5%)
Zinc (1%)
Coconut milk should not be confused with coconut water. Coconut water is the liquid found incased inside young, green coconut fruit. Coconut milk is derived from the fatty flesh of mature, brown coconut. Coconut milk cost more because more labor is involved in stripping coconut flesh and rendering it into milk as opposed to hacking or drilling a hole into a young coconut and pouring out the liquid.
Coconut milk/coconut flesh contains the following trace elements:
Calcium (2%)
Iron (25%)
Magnesium (13%)
Phosphorus (14%)
Potassium (5%)
Sodium (1%)
Zinc (6%)
Both coconut milk and coconut water contain cytokinin and zeatin which is great for stimulating growth in cloning plant tissue in in vitro. Ancient Hawaiians voyagers brought coconut to Hawaii over a thousand years ago across the Pacific Ocean as a food, medicine and plant stimulator. It's like the ancient Hawaiian version of Superthrive.
For more information on Cytokinin research, I recommend CytokininsChemistry, Activity, and Function study edited by David W. S. Mok, Machteld C. Mok. For more information on ancient Hawaiian botanicals (La'au lapa'au), you'll have to go bug a Hawaiian elder as this type of knowledge is dying out.
If I see a potassium or phosphor deficiency creep into a leaf or 2, I add some of the Costco coconut water to my plant watering mix. I'm going to use whatever is available because that's the way my grandmother trained me back in Hawaii. She's resourceful like Macguyver!
Coconut water contains the following trace elements:
Calcium (2%)
Iron (2%)
Magnesium (7%)
Phosphorus (3%)
Potassium (5%)
Zinc (1%)
Coconut milk should not be confused with coconut water. Coconut water is the liquid found incased inside young, green coconut fruit. Coconut milk is derived from the fatty flesh of mature, brown coconut. Coconut milk cost more because more labor is involved in stripping coconut flesh and rendering it into milk as opposed to hacking or drilling a hole into a young coconut and pouring out the liquid.
Coconut milk/coconut flesh contains the following trace elements:
Calcium (2%)
Iron (25%)
Magnesium (13%)
Phosphorus (14%)
Potassium (5%)
Sodium (1%)
Zinc (6%)
Both coconut milk and coconut water contain cytokinin and zeatin which is great for stimulating growth in cloning plant tissue in in vitro. Ancient Hawaiians voyagers brought coconut to Hawaii over a thousand years ago across the Pacific Ocean as a food, medicine and plant stimulator. It's like the ancient Hawaiian version of Superthrive.
For more information on Cytokinin research, I recommend CytokininsChemistry, Activity, and Function study edited by David W. S. Mok, Machteld C. Mok. For more information on ancient Hawaiian botanicals (La'au lapa'au), you'll have to go bug a Hawaiian elder as this type of knowledge is dying out.
Cannabelle, your post is a breath of fresh air into the community!
- Thread starter
- #13
Psi Haze
New Member
100% Pure Aloe Vera Gel Health Drink - YouTube
you want to put this slimy shit in your roots? ..I think your statements are ridiculous.
And now the next question.. How am I going to get 500 gallons of coconut water for my little experiment? hehehehe....
oh and Cannabelle, Phosphorous and Potassium are not trace elements for cannabis fertilizer, they are essential. Nitrogen - Phosphorous - Potassium are essential nutrients, Calcium - magnesium - sulfur are macro nutrients, and the rest, like iron, zinc, manganese, ect, are considered micro nutrients
a simple and "All purpose" fertilizer is about 15% nitrogen, 15% phosphorous, 15% potassium, 3-5% calcium, 3% magnesium, 3% sulfur, and "micro nutrients" are about 0.1%-0.01% each.
cheers.
100% Pure Aloe Vera Gel Health Drink - YouTube
you want to put this slimy shit in your roots? ..I think your statements are ridiculous.
And now the next question.. How am I going to get 500 gallons of coconut water for my little experiment? hehehehe....
oh and Cannabelle, Phosphorous and Potassium are not trace elements for cannabis fertilizer, they are essential. Nitrogen - Phosphorous - Potassium are essential nutrients, Calcium - magnesium - sulfur are macro nutrients, and the rest, like iron, zinc, manganese, ect, are considered micro nutrients
a simple and "All purpose" fertilizer is about 15% nitrogen, 15% phosphorous, 15% potassium, 3-5% calcium, 3% magnesium, 3% sulfur, and "micro nutrients" are about 0.1%-0.01% each.
cheers.
how bout the research on salicylic acid and saponins? bet ya didn't do any of that. Im not sure what experiment you are referring to that you need 500 gallons of coconut water. That sounds expensive. How about sprouted corn? I guess you didn't read much in the previous posts. ! Nice video attachment, that really cements your case, lol. have a nice NPK-day
Psi Haze
New Member
~~~~~~~
From Wiki: In plants, saponins may serve as anti-feedants,[2][4] and to protect the plant against microbes and fungi.[citation needed] Some plant saponins (e.g. from oat and spinach) may enhance nutrient absorption and aid in animal digestion. However, saponins are often bitter to taste, and so can reduce plant palatability (e.g., in livestock feeds), or even imbue them with life-threatening animal toxicity.[4] Data makes clear that some saponins are toxic to cold-blooded organisms and insects at particular concentrations.[4] Further research is needed to define the roles of these natural products in their host organisms, which have been described as "poorly understood" to date.[4]
From Wiki: Plant hormone - Salicylic acid (SA) is a phenolic phytohormone and is found in plants with roles in plant growth and development, photosynthesis, transpiration, ion uptake and transport. SA also induces specific changes in leaf anatomy and chloroplast structure.[which?] SA is involved in endogenous signaling, mediating in plant defense against pathogens.[9] It plays a role in the resistance to pathogens by inducing the production of pathogenesis-related proteins.[10] It is involved in the systemic acquired resistance (SAR) in which a pathogenic attack on one part of the plant induces resistance in other parts. The signal can also move to nearby plants by salicylic acid being converted to the volatile ester, methyl salicylate.[11]
~~~~~~~~~
I also used to make large volumes of Salicylic acid in Organic Chemistry. I would suggest using an aspirin tablet in your fert if you want to try this cheaply, not everyone has access to a mass spectrometer, as I do.
Trying to be insulting?
It does sound expensive to me too and this is how much water I use every year on medical cannabis.
I`m not here to grow corn, bro..
what im trying to do is figure out what your contributing to this thread. It sounds like you have no experience with or desire to learn about enzyme teas and coconut water and using aloe vera in the garden. I think when celia jr started this thread she was looking for the sort of introductory scientific information I provided her with.
Im not on the internet today to argue with you.
Im not on the internet today to argue with you.
Cannabelle
New Member
Psi, the trace elements in coconut water and milk is what manufacturers list for human consumption. I never mentioned coconut water as a stand alone fertilizer. However it can be used to supplement flowering cannabis which require more phosphorus and potassium than nitrogen.
It's wonderful that Kelp rocks your world. However, Ceila is looking for information on coconut water and how it can be used in horticulture. Because research regarding coconut water in horticulture is slim in English speaking nations, Ceila is having difficulty finding research materials. I applaud Ceila in wanting to find alternative horticulture methods that have been practiced for centuries by indigenous cultures.
In tropical regions and oasis's, coconut remains an abundant resource. In the tropics, the coconut is referred to as the plant of a thousand uses. It's an excellent food source, medicine, building material, soil base (many cannabis growers use coir noir as a soil base) and horticulture supplement. The trick is to know what part of the coconut plant to use and when to use it. The same holds true for bottled fertilizers and growth enhancers.
The full human nutritional profile for coconut water, including the vitamins and cytokinin, comes close to the popular plant stimulant Superthrive.
It's wonderful that Kelp rocks your world. However, Ceila is looking for information on coconut water and how it can be used in horticulture. Because research regarding coconut water in horticulture is slim in English speaking nations, Ceila is having difficulty finding research materials. I applaud Ceila in wanting to find alternative horticulture methods that have been practiced for centuries by indigenous cultures.
In tropical regions and oasis's, coconut remains an abundant resource. In the tropics, the coconut is referred to as the plant of a thousand uses. It's an excellent food source, medicine, building material, soil base (many cannabis growers use coir noir as a soil base) and horticulture supplement. The trick is to know what part of the coconut plant to use and when to use it. The same holds true for bottled fertilizers and growth enhancers.
The full human nutritional profile for coconut water, including the vitamins and cytokinin, comes close to the popular plant stimulant Superthrive.
- Thread starter
- #19
Thank you COorganics an Cannabelle for all your helpful insight.
I started this thread to learn more bout the use of coconut water in cultivation because I had no knowledge about it's beneficial use as an additive. I am not new to growing, i've been doing this for 10 years. With that said however, I am very new to organic gardening and am always interested i learning traditional methods that have been used for hundreds of generations. After so long using synthetic nutrients, you eventually hit the ceiling and being a horticulture student, I do not want to get comfortable where I'm at. I want to experiment and further my knowledge and gain some insight while sharing my own knowledge with an eager community
I started this thread to learn more bout the use of coconut water in cultivation because I had no knowledge about it's beneficial use as an additive. I am not new to growing, i've been doing this for 10 years. With that said however, I am very new to organic gardening and am always interested i learning traditional methods that have been used for hundreds of generations. After so long using synthetic nutrients, you eventually hit the ceiling and being a horticulture student, I do not want to get comfortable where I'm at. I want to experiment and further my knowledge and gain some insight while sharing my own knowledge with an eager community
Psi Haze
New Member
I was kinda talking to the guy who said he was using kelp and aloe, I thought the kelp was a great idea and the aloe a bad idea but to each their own.
Coconut water sounds interesting, agreed, but not a stand alone fertilizer or hydration supplement. I was talking about the need of plant fertilizers and that coconut is not and cannot be a stand alone fertilizer/water. still, thats IMO and based on plant science.
I still like the rain/well water + bat/bird shit, and kelp idea. This bud is for you..
Coconut water sounds interesting, agreed, but not a stand alone fertilizer or hydration supplement. I was talking about the need of plant fertilizers and that coconut is not and cannot be a stand alone fertilizer/water. still, thats IMO and based on plant science.
I still like the rain/well water + bat/bird shit, and kelp idea.
This bud is for you..
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