Clones from clones losing potency

[growingold]

There is some discussion going around my group of fellow growers that you should not create clones from clones that they will start to lose potency.I thought I had read somewhere that that was not true anyone have any input
I believe genetics will tell the tale and clones from clones is just a duplicate plant and does not hurt the potency of the plants .any feed back from the group would be helpful

 

[norcalgrown]

this is a huge topic between me and me buddies. and after all these views im surprised no one has any input.well i like to think that it dilutes strains. but think about this more then likely 90% of the strains you acquire/consume are clones of clones of clones of clones of clones. a lot of people aren't too savvy at keeping the same mom alive for 3-5yrs. some people keep them for up to 7 with proper techniques,care and knowledge. i like bud from a seed plant more then anything else. even 1st generation clones. i've smoked 15th generation clones that were just as good though. i think some strains might lose more potency and some dont lose any.i also think cloning can be a way of increasing your genetics by continually taking better cuttings etc. and vice versa. suppose someone gets an amazing strain takes a 100 lousy clones and sells them because their from a good strain despite the condition of the clones. so then say 10 people take those lousy clones from an amazing strain and makes a 100 more lousy clones and so fourth. eventually i think you'll end up with terribly compromised amazing renowned strain which then gets a bad wrap and lower thc and bad reviews, maybe even become more susceptible to mold and or insects to a once amazing strain like white widow. my favorite strain since a teenager. now i cant find real white widow in the states to save a burning new born childs life and it sucks. i wont even look twice at white widow clones in any club in ca. unless i decide to get some seeds it wont happen.love to see what you think on my views.



Nor*caL

 

[growingold]

Let me say first thanks for your reply I believe as you do that it all depends on the the original clones .I think you can improve the strain by only cloning from the best plants I really dont want to keep a mother plant as this limits the amount of ladies I can possess at one time.Currently I am growing 12 beautiful blue dreams which I will cut 12 clones from the best of the best to maintain my crop.I also prefer to go from seed as the first generation always seem to be amazing Once again thanks for your input any thoughts on a replacement for the blue dream I am starting a seed search

 

[Psyclops]

I have tons of input. I am on my 17th Generation of clones from a NYPD she/they are derived from 1 seed that I planted 4 years ago. I have never kept a "Mother" and have not noticed any loss of potency. She has lost a bit of the Strong Diesel flavor. I grew a WonderWoman for 4 years, reaching 14th generation, never keeping a mother, rather every plant is a mother. Currently I have a 7th generation Opium and a 8th generation Poison. I find that as I get to know them I grow them better. If they have lost potency it is a good thing because my meds are better today than when I started them as seeds. Just my .02 worth.

 

[OG13]

The problem is, most people don't know what a "good" mother is. They buy single seeds and assume all are the same. They figure theirs is the "best" and make clones for everybody.

You need to buy a bunch of seeds (maybe 10, maybe 100 depends on breeder--nothing is "stable"), clone them all and flower them all out. Then sample and compare to pick the best mother based on what you like/want. Then throw all the other clones away (those are the ones that go to the dispensary most likely). Dispensaries are not the place to get mothers, that's where you go for meds. Dispensaries are where reject clones go to make pocket change. Each grower's likes/wants will be different, just like each grower's environment. Different plants like different environments. Your buddy may grow an excellent strain, your cut from him sucks. Could be the grower, could be the environment, could be bad luck. It didn't change by cutting it off the mother plant.

A well executed clone is just that--a genetic copy. Maybe it is good, maybe not. Just depends on what you start with. I've never noticed "dilution" or "drift", but tend not to keep anything over 4 years either. Granddaddy purple has been around a long time....It's all about getting the "original" plant to get an original clone.

 

[1234a5678b]

It took me a year and a half and 15 seeds to find my Afghan Kush mother. The 14 I discarded were high quality, but the phenotype I finally kept is some of the best I have ever grown. I'm on my 6th generation, and as long as you grow a healthy plant before you take cuttings, you won't lose potency. Genetics are genetics, and inferior clones are inferior clones.
Just my $0.02

 

[norcalgrown]

Let me say first thanks for your reply I believe as you do that it all depends on the the original clones .I think you can improve the strain by only cloning from the best plants I really dont want to keep a mother plant as this limits the amount of ladies I can possess at one time.Currently I am growing 12 beautiful blue dreams which I will cut 12 clones from the best of the best to maintain my crop.I also prefer to go from seed as the first generation always seem to be amazing Once again thanks for your input any thoughts on a replacement for the blue dream I am starting a seed search

blue dream is rad im currently starting 19 blue dragon seeds as opposed to blue dream.
and np i love putting my two cents in i like to try and give advice its up to you to analyze it and learn from me or criticize it and teach me something new. i dont know what your doing for personal or a lil bit of extra you know to cover costs of maintaining your medicine. grow what you want as long as its for you. if your makin somethin somethin then find out what others like. i have a blue strain now a fruity strain a sour strain. a real heavy indica strain.another sour strain.i want a white strain and a red strain and an orange.i would keep em all the same though like indicas or sativas i wouldnt mix it. due to flowering times. good to see more replies. love the input guys.
and yes you do need to grow a bunch and see how they go. i have my 19 blue dragons and three have leaves that are so round it looks like a different type of plant. im interested to see how this turns out. im curious to see the next few set of leaves develop and see if their round too. the other strains look awesome and normal.(compared to others)i imagine ill take male cuttings and use those for seed production i believe. so theres this theory that theres like super plants like a few good seeds that are optimum amongst the other 98% like 1/100 outta the lot a female will produce is there any truth to this? i heard this from an old timer

I have tons of input. I am on my 17th Generation of clones from a NYPD she/they are derived from 1 seed that I planted 4 years ago. I have never kept a "Mother" and have not noticed any loss of potency. She has lost a bit of the Strong Diesel flavor. I grew a WonderWoman for 4 years, reaching 14th generation, never keeping a mother, rather every plant is a mother. Currently I have a 7th generation Opium and a 8th generation Poison. I find that as I get to know them I grow them better. If they have lost potency it is a good thing because my meds are better today than when I started them as seeds. Just my .02 worth.

well i also think that may due to experience.. the constant upkeep needed for them has caused you to slowly improve yourself on growing these specific strains i have a buddy only does indoor green crack. i tested his thc at 48% crazy.




cool thread maybe more posters soon

Nor*caL

 

[norcalgrown]

also take into consideration soft tissue clones instead of hard woody clones will produce more since their growth is unrestricted whereas you put a hard already wooding cutting in cloning it has kinda a growth cap if that makes sense..

also just my opinion, this could severely affect ppl's calculations of yields and plant specs happy growin

 

[Psyclops]

Some very nice input. Very Cool!!

 

[OG13]

so theres this theory that theres like super plants like a few good seeds that are optimum amongst the other 98% like 1/100 outta the lot a female will produce is there any truth to this? i heard this from an old timer

TRUE, that's why it takes work to find a good mother, same when you are breeding. You are looking to find the best of the best before you cross. Breeders grow out hundreds of plants looking for the best male and best female.....Looking for the odd recessive genes that are killer.

If you buy a single seed and get a "great mother", you should buy 10 more to make sure.....

 

[Poormangrow]

blue dream is rad im currently starting 19 blue dragon seeds as opposed to blue dream.
and np i love putting my two cents in i like to try and give advice its up to you to analyze it and learn from me or criticize it and teach me something new. i dont know what your doing for personal or a lil bit of extra you know to cover costs of maintaining your medicine. grow what you want as long as its for you. if your makin somethin somethin then find out what others like. i have a blue strain now a fruity strain a sour strain. a real heavy indica strain.another sour strain.i want a white strain and a red strain and an orange.i would keep em all the same though like indicas or sativas i wouldnt mix it. due to flowering times. good to see more replies. love the input guys.
and yes you do need to grow a bunch and see how they go. i have my 19 blue dragons and three have leaves that are so round it looks like a different type of plant. im interested to see how this turns out. im curious to see the next few set of leaves develop and see if their round too. the other strains look awesome and normal.(compared to others)i imagine ill take male cuttings and use those for seed production i believe. so theres this theory that theres like super plants like a few good seeds that are optimum amongst the other 98% like 1/100 outta the lot a female will produce is there any truth to this? i heard this from an old timer



well i also think that may due to experience.. the constant upkeep needed for them has caused you to slowly improve yourself on growing these specific strains i have a buddy only does indoor green crack. i tested his thc at 48% crazy.




cool thread maybe more posters soon

Nor*caL

Yeah grow out the mutants. There fun. Just harvest a pineapple upside down cake from HSC total mutant. Look more like a tomato plant turning into a poinsettia. It ended up being the best smelling best tasting out of the batchSmelt like Berry skittles

 

[Icemud]

I've been doing "clones of clones" of some of my strains for 6+ years, and personally havent seen any loss in quality/potency or any other factor for most of my strains....

However,

Some strains/varieties such as cookies strains though do seem to "freak out" after getting cloned too many times. I had issues where my cookies strains hated to be topped and after so many times topped/cloned they would lose their direction of "up" and start growing along the ground like a vine...

Also, if comparing a clone vs a plant directly from a seed, the seed plant almost always has more vigor, handles environmental stress better, and generally grows and yields larger. I believe this has to do with the tap root on seed grown plants, where clones do not grow a tap root.

Overall though, most of the strains that I currently have which have been clones of clones over the past 6+ years are just as tasty and potent as they have always been. (really only cookies varieties were the exception)

Also, another consideration.... Viroids. This is a "newer" topic in cannabis be there have been a handful of viroids that have been discovered in cannabis, and many will lead to reduced yield, vigor. I don't know a ton about them but from what I have read, they can be transferred to a plant via trimming scissors or taking clones between plants without sterilization. This could also contribute to the differences in clones over generations.

Also, epigenetics and phenotypical expression can also influence clones over time. Therefore if a clone was originally grown in a different climate, and then over many years has been moved to a completely different climate, sometimes the climate will influence the phenotypical expression which can also cause epigenetic changes and drift over time.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yeah I think icemud pretty much sums it up. I am genetically exactly the same as I was when I was 10 years old, but at my age I am more beat up and have all kinds of issues and scar tissue I didn’t have then.

I’ve got some clones I’ve been cloning for six years as well and they seem just as potent- but more beat up. You can’t keep a plant alive forever without it picking up various biological issues.

It’s fairly difficult to cause mutations within a single organism. Doesn’t happen very often. Diseases and stuff yes but I don’t personally know anyone who has ever physically mutated.

 

[slyclone]

I wonder if this could be like the Darwin evolutionary biology question at work here ( Plants Evolving from the impact of human activity on its condition environmental and horticulture ) . Q - If the older wood crown carries the most hormones maybe it has a better biological memory snapshot to pass on by cutting even knowing its harder to take root. one in every 5 generational to be a crown cutting maybe. Old thread I know but still good chewing gum for the minds.