I felt more energetic but relaxed at the same time. More clear in the head. I'll have to do another dose this morning and see how it effects me.
Cannabis Dosing: Delivery Methods & Dosing Guidelines
- Thread starter SweetSue
- Start date
Dave Groomer
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #63
Dosing Update: Additional information
I came across these tincture dosing calculations by Kingsnake235. He broke it down into mg per drop. What a trooper. Kingsnake, wherever you are, my undying gratitude for this monumental undertaking.
The original post can be found Here
Considerations:
1 gram of cannabis has roughly between 100-200 mg of cannabinoids. To be precise in your dosing you need to have your medication tested. Many of us don't have that option, so we're left with doing our best guess. If you're guessing, underestimate your cannabinoid load.
Your method of delivery will affect the bioavailability. There are ways to improve bioavailability. The strain potency and method of extraction will determine the cannabinoid load. What Kingsnake offers here is a generalized guideline. It's meant only to give you a feel for what you're trying to accomplish. His purpose in compiling it was to demonstrate the cost-effectiveness of using tinctures.
Looking this over you can appreciate why physicians prefer the controlled dosing of tinctures. If you know the cannabinoid load of your medication you can dial in the therapeutic dose much more easily.
Use this information cautiously, understanding that you're dispensing one of the safest medications known to man. The variables are many and varied, and we're all learning here. There aren't any guidebooks yet, so we need to stand together and do our best to learn to administer cannabis responsibly. I welcome any input you feel will help in this regard.
I came across these tincture dosing calculations by Kingsnake235. He broke it down into mg per drop. What a trooper. Kingsnake, wherever you are, my undying gratitude for this monumental undertaking.
The original post can be found Here
Considerations:
1 gram of cannabis has roughly between 100-200 mg of cannabinoids. To be precise in your dosing you need to have your medication tested. Many of us don't have that option, so we're left with doing our best guess. If you're guessing, underestimate your cannabinoid load.
Your method of delivery will affect the bioavailability. There are ways to improve bioavailability. The strain potency and method of extraction will determine the cannabinoid load. What Kingsnake offers here is a generalized guideline. It's meant only to give you a feel for what you're trying to accomplish. His purpose in compiling it was to demonstrate the cost-effectiveness of using tinctures.
Looking this over you can appreciate why physicians prefer the controlled dosing of tinctures. If you know the cannabinoid load of your medication you can dial in the therapeutic dose much more easily.
Kingsnake235 said:
Use this information cautiously, understanding that you're dispensing one of the safest medications known to man. The variables are many and varied, and we're all learning here. There aren't any guidebooks yet, so we need to stand together and do our best to learn to administer cannabis responsibly. I welcome any input you feel will help in this regard.
- Thread starter
- #64
Dosing Update: Additional Information
I spent a good part of the day free-falling through the medical cannabis sites and found myself wandering around the site of one Dr. Frankel. While visiting there I gleaned a smattering of information that would add to our knowledge base.
Focused Dosing
Focused dosing is when the physican, the patient and the dispensary/caregiver all know what's in the medicine. Knowing the concentrations of the major cannabinoids in the medication allows for fine-tuning of the protocol. Dr. Frankel says they can take up to 15 calls or visits to get a protocol dialed in properly.
I also found their rating system interesting. They use a Psychoactive Scale of 1-10, with 1 being almost pure CBD and 10 being almost pure THC.
* 5 on the scale was a 1:1 ratio CBD:THC.
* From 1-5 CBD concentration stays constant as THC increases.
* From 5-10 CBD concentration drops.
He mentioned somewhere that almost 80% of his patients get agitated with high levels of THC. I wasn't aware there were that many people adversely affected by THC. You learn something new everyday.
Migraines
It's easier to prevent migraines than it is to treat them. Dr. Frankel's discovered that a small dose of CBD during the day, every day, will keep most migraines at bay.
If you have a migraine chose a strain with a higher THC ratio.
If you're having a really brutal migraine increase the THC value, at least a 1:1 ratio, but probably higher. Every person is individual.
Chronic Pain
Dr. Frankel splits pain up into two categories
Skeletal pain - Most often, but not confined to joint pain.
Neuropathic Pain - Pain caused by irritation or damage to the myelin sheath protecting the nerves, usually in the form of burning, tingling and numbness.
The narcotics typically dispensed will distance you from the pain but they don't address healing and they come with a host of dangerous side effects.
Orthopedic pain responds well to oral doses of a 1:1 ratio CBD:THC. Neuropathic pain responds even better to that ratio. Of particular notice are the patients who suffer what's referred to as "Suicidal Pain", typically caused by chemotherapeutic drugs or other toxins. Dr. Frankel's practice has seen much better results using cannabis to treat neuropathic pain caused by drugs and toxins than with pinched nerves.
If you're on a medication known to cause neuropathic pain consider a cannabinoid therapy of a 1:1 CBD:THC ratio.
Seizure Disorders
In his practice Dr. Frankel's seen an average of a 65% reduction in seizures with a well-crafted cannabis protocol. He confidentially proclaims that adding CBD to the treatment protocol will reduce seizures by more than 50%.
THC is also an effective seizure medication in its own right. Surprisingly, THCA has proven to be useful for patients who don't get the anticipated relief from CBD therapy.
Traumatic Brain Injury
An interesting point to consider: Israeli soldiers suffering TBI are administered CBD-rich medications in the field. CBD has shown efficacy in preventing damage progression in brain injury. Again, CBD will prevent damage to the brain.
Evidence exists that the same is true for stroke and heart attack. This makes a compelling argument for a daily maintenance dose of CBD as a preventative medication. Dr. Frankel recounts that a number of his patients suffering TBI with memory loss had regained that memory within 4 weeks of initiating CBD therapies.
Anxiety and Insomnia
For someone having difficulty drifting off to sleep, but who stays asleep and wakes refreshed, a little CBD with THC will work fine. A dose as little as 5mg CBD and 5mg THC will do the trick. Some patients will respond to just THC. With cannabis it's always going to be a certain amount of trial and error.
Someone waking frequently, what's referred to as "Early Morning Waking" (EMW) does so at the point when they have cortisol spikes in the system. For someone riddled with anxiety, should that spike occur while stress metabolites are still circulating, waking up is an abrupt start, with extreme difficulty falling back asleep.
Treating anxiety with a small dose of CBD in the daytime hours will help tremendously to reduce early morning awakenings.
And that's all I have for today. Time to unwind. I do hope this helps some of you.
I spent a good part of the day free-falling through the medical cannabis sites and found myself wandering around the site of one Dr. Frankel. While visiting there I gleaned a smattering of information that would add to our knowledge base.
Focused Dosing
Focused dosing is when the physican, the patient and the dispensary/caregiver all know what's in the medicine. Knowing the concentrations of the major cannabinoids in the medication allows for fine-tuning of the protocol. Dr. Frankel says they can take up to 15 calls or visits to get a protocol dialed in properly.
I also found their rating system interesting. They use a Psychoactive Scale of 1-10, with 1 being almost pure CBD and 10 being almost pure THC.
* 5 on the scale was a 1:1 ratio CBD:THC.
* From 1-5 CBD concentration stays constant as THC increases.
* From 5-10 CBD concentration drops.
He mentioned somewhere that almost 80% of his patients get agitated with high levels of THC. I wasn't aware there were that many people adversely affected by THC. You learn something new everyday.
Migraines
It's easier to prevent migraines than it is to treat them. Dr. Frankel's discovered that a small dose of CBD during the day, every day, will keep most migraines at bay.
If you have a migraine chose a strain with a higher THC ratio.
If you're having a really brutal migraine increase the THC value, at least a 1:1 ratio, but probably higher. Every person is individual.
Chronic Pain
Dr. Frankel splits pain up into two categories
Skeletal pain - Most often, but not confined to joint pain.
Neuropathic Pain - Pain caused by irritation or damage to the myelin sheath protecting the nerves, usually in the form of burning, tingling and numbness.
The narcotics typically dispensed will distance you from the pain but they don't address healing and they come with a host of dangerous side effects.
Orthopedic pain responds well to oral doses of a 1:1 ratio CBD:THC. Neuropathic pain responds even better to that ratio. Of particular notice are the patients who suffer what's referred to as "Suicidal Pain", typically caused by chemotherapeutic drugs or other toxins. Dr. Frankel's practice has seen much better results using cannabis to treat neuropathic pain caused by drugs and toxins than with pinched nerves.
If you're on a medication known to cause neuropathic pain consider a cannabinoid therapy of a 1:1 CBD:THC ratio.
Seizure Disorders
In his practice Dr. Frankel's seen an average of a 65% reduction in seizures with a well-crafted cannabis protocol. He confidentially proclaims that adding CBD to the treatment protocol will reduce seizures by more than 50%.
THC is also an effective seizure medication in its own right. Surprisingly, THCA has proven to be useful for patients who don't get the anticipated relief from CBD therapy.
Traumatic Brain Injury
An interesting point to consider: Israeli soldiers suffering TBI are administered CBD-rich medications in the field. CBD has shown efficacy in preventing damage progression in brain injury. Again, CBD will prevent damage to the brain.
Evidence exists that the same is true for stroke and heart attack. This makes a compelling argument for a daily maintenance dose of CBD as a preventative medication. Dr. Frankel recounts that a number of his patients suffering TBI with memory loss had regained that memory within 4 weeks of initiating CBD therapies.
Anxiety and Insomnia
For someone having difficulty drifting off to sleep, but who stays asleep and wakes refreshed, a little CBD with THC will work fine. A dose as little as 5mg CBD and 5mg THC will do the trick. Some patients will respond to just THC. With cannabis it's always going to be a certain amount of trial and error.
Someone waking frequently, what's referred to as "Early Morning Waking" (EMW) does so at the point when they have cortisol spikes in the system. For someone riddled with anxiety, should that spike occur while stress metabolites are still circulating, waking up is an abrupt start, with extreme difficulty falling back asleep.
Treating anxiety with a small dose of CBD in the daytime hours will help tremendously to reduce early morning awakenings.
And that's all I have for today. Time to unwind. I do hope this helps some of you.
- Thread starter
- #65
All that reading about tinctures motivated me to try one with the Dark Devil Auto.
7 grams of decarbed Dark Devil Auto combined with 2 ounces of 95% ethanol. Into the freezer for a two week stay with frequent agitation.
This one's just for me.
7 grams of decarbed Dark Devil Auto combined with 2 ounces of 95% ethanol. Into the freezer for a two week stay with frequent agitation.
This one's just for me.
Dave Groomer
Well-Known Member
Dosing Update: Additional Information
I spent a good part of the day free-falling through the medical cannabis sites and found myself wandering around the site of one Dr. Frankel. While visiting there I gleaned a smattering of information that would add to our knowledge base.
Focused Dosing
Focused dosing is when the physican, the patient and the dispensary/caregiver all know what's in the medicine. Knowing the concentrations of the major cannabinoids in the medication allows for fine-tuning of the protocol. Dr. Frankel says they can take up to 15 calls or visits to get a protocol dialed in properly.
I also found their rating system interesting. They use a Psychoactive Scale of 1-10, with 1 being almost pure CBD and 10 being almost pure THC.
* 5 on the scale was a 1:1 ratio CBD:THC.
* From 1-5 CBD concentration stays constant as THC increases.
* From 5-10 CBD concentration drops.
He mentioned somewhere that almost 80% of his patients get agitated with high levels of THC. I wasn't aware there were that many people adversely affected by THC. You learn something new everyday.
Migraines
It's easier to prevent migraines than it is to treat them. Dr. Frankel's discovered that a small dose of CBD during the day, every day, will keep most migraines at bay.
If you have a migraine chose a strain with a higher THC ratio.
If you're having a really brutal migraine increase the THC value, at least a 1:1 ratio, but probably higher. Every person is individual.
Chronic Pain
Dr. Frankel splits pain up into two categories
Skeletal pain - Most often, but not confined to joint pain.
Neuropathic Pain - Pain caused by irritation or damage to the myelin sheath protecting the nerves, usually in the form of burning, tingling and numbness.
The narcotics typically dispensed will distance you from the pain but they don't address healing and they come with a host of dangerous side effects.
Orthopedic pain responds well to oral doses of a 1:1 ratio CBD:THC. Neuropathic pain responds even better to that ratio. Of particular notice are the patients who suffer what's referred to as "Suicidal Pain", typically caused by chemotherapeutic drugs or other toxins. Dr. Frankel's practice has seen much better results using cannabis to treat neuropathic pain caused by drugs and toxins than with pinched nerves.
If you're on a medication known to cause neuropathic pain consider a cannabinoid therapy of a 1:1 CBD:THC ratio.
Seizure Disorders
In his practice Dr. Frankel's seen an average of a 65% reduction in seizures with a well-crafted cannabis protocol. He confidentially proclaims that adding CBD to the treatment protocol will reduce seizures by more than 50%.
THC is also an effective seizure medication in its own right. Surprisingly, THCA has proven to be useful for patients who don't get the anticipated relief from CBD therapy.
Traumatic Brain Injury
An interesting point to consider: Israeli soldiers suffering TBI are administered CBD-rich medications in the field. CBD has shown efficacy in preventing damage progression in brain injury. Again, CBD will prevent damage to the brain.
Evidence exists that the same is true for stroke and heart attack. This makes a compelling argument for a daily maintenance dose of CBD as a preventative medication. Dr. Frankel recounts that a number of his patients suffering TBI with memory loss had regained that memory within 4 weeks of initiating CBD therapies.
Anxiety and Insomnia
For someone having difficulty drifting off to sleep, but who stays asleep and wakes refreshed, a little CBD with THC will work fine. A dose as little as 5mg CBD and 5mg THC will do the trick. Some patients will respond to just THC. With cannabis it's always going to be a certain amount of trial and error.
Someone waking frequently, what's referred to as "Early Morning Waking" (EMW) does so at the point when they have cortisol spikes in the system. For someone riddled with anxiety, should that spike occur while stress metabolites are still circulating, waking up is an abrupt start, with extreme difficulty falling back asleep.
Treating anxiety with a small dose of CBD in the daytime hours will help tremendously to reduce early morning awakenings.
And that's all I have for today. Time to unwind. I do hope this helps some of you.
When I get back to growing meds, I will have to see about starting a couple of my Hurkle seeds. They are 1 to1.
- Thread starter
- #67
When I get back to growing meds, I will have to see about starting a couple of my Hurkle seeds. They are 1 to1.
That 1:1 ratio's playing out as a major force in healing. I'm still trying to wrap my head around cannabis that doesn't produce euphoria. The only way to be sure it's working is to have regular labs done. I've started my own daily dose of oil in the 1:1 ratio. I keep forgetting to get labs scheduled. Let me make that call now.
- Thread starter
- #68
Dosing Update: Additional Information
Dr. Bonnie Goldstein, a cannabis specialist in California wrote an incredible paper that's must reading if you know anyone with a child challenged with a seizure disorder. It includes an in-depth review of 200 of her pediatric patients using a CBD oil therapy to control their seizures.
I warn you, this one may make you angry.
Cannabis in the Treatment of Pediatric Epilepsy
This tidbit was too good to leave there.
CBD’s Anticonvulsant Mechanism of Action
CBD does not act directly on the CB1 receptor. It works by multiple actions —what has been termed “polypharmacology,” exerting various effects within different parts of the brain that might defuse seizures. I explain it in comparison to the AEDs that parents are all familiar with.
CBD blocks NMDA receptors, which are involved in excitation. Felbamate acts similarly.
CBD binds to GABA receptors, enhancing the inhibition of excitation —as do Felbamate, Depakote, Tegratol, On , and Phenobarbital.
CBD stabilizes ion channels —as do Banzel, Lamictal, Dilantin, Keppra, and Trileptal.
CBD modulates calcium release in neurons, blocking the uptake of endocannabinoids in order to normalize endocannabinoid tone.
CBD counters in ammatory reactions that appear to in- crease neuronal excitability and impair cell survival. This is why the National Football League is reviewing a proposal that CBD be provided to players suffering head injuries. CBD is neuroprotective; it reduces oxidative stress and glutamate toxicity.
As was this:
Dosing
Realm of Caring developed a dosing protocol for children on Charlotte’s Web that parents are following. For most epilepsy patients, starting dose is 0.5 milligrams per pound per day, divided into three doses to be given at eight-hour intervals (ideally). Thus a 40-pound child would start at 20 milligrams per day divided into three doses. (In pediatric medicine, everything is based on weight because children can outgrow their dose as they gain weight.)
After starting on CBD oil, the children are observed for one or two weeks. Patients whose seizures are less fre- quent —for example only three seizures a month— may be observed for a longer period without increasing the dose. Most of the patients I see have daily seizures, which enables parents to tell quite quickly if there is any benefit from the oil. Parents are asked to keep a diary or calendar of seizures and improvements and to check in every one to two weeks
If the child is doing well, after a week or two the dose is titrated up by increments of 0.5 milligrams per pound per day. It appears from the data collected in Colorado that the therapeutic range is 2 – 6 mg per pound per day for many of the children that respond well to CBD treatment.
Some patients do need higher doses to achieve good results. One little boy was still having about 20 seizures a month on three anti-epileptic drugs. With Charlotte’s Web oil he became seizure free for six months at a dose of 7.5 milligrams per pound per day, and he has been weaned off almost all of the seizure medications.
Doctors using GW Pharmaceuticals’ Epidiolex reportedly have gone as high as 24 milligrams per kilogram per day in an FDA-approved context.
In Colorado one patient has gone as high as 8 milligrams per pound per day.
Concentrated oil is the formulation easiest for the parent giving a dose. When you’re giving close to four milligrams per pound per day to a 50-pound child, you’re giving up to 200 milligrams. If the oil only has 15 milligrams per milliliter, you’re giving that child a lot of oil. In large quantities, even healthful olive oil or coconut oil can cause diarrhea.
Many people think that seizure reduction is the goal of treatment, but it’s only part of the goal. The effects of the conventional anti-epileptic drugs (AEDs) can be debilitating - lethargy, developmental delay, liver damage and more. The ultimate goal for pediatric epilepsy patients is freedom from seizure and the side effects of the AEDs. Interestingly, many parents whose children are having success with CBD oil to treat epilepsy are also reporting that their children have improved sleep, improved appetite, more alertness, and developmental progression. It is these other benficial effects that make CBD a wonderful option for children suffering with seizures.
The rest of the article covers a fairly decent look at epilepsy and it's treatment by conventional medicine. Contrasted by the results she's seeing in her patients and the other studies being done on pediatric patients using cannabis it becomes a lesson in social insanity. She ends the article with an update and some additional invaluable observations on what appears to be a tolerance level concern affecting some patients after nine months or so on CBD oil that can be reset by taking a short holiday.
Seriously, a must read.
Dr. Bonnie Goldstein, a cannabis specialist in California wrote an incredible paper that's must reading if you know anyone with a child challenged with a seizure disorder. It includes an in-depth review of 200 of her pediatric patients using a CBD oil therapy to control their seizures.
I warn you, this one may make you angry.
Cannabis in the Treatment of Pediatric Epilepsy
This tidbit was too good to leave there.
CBD’s Anticonvulsant Mechanism of Action
CBD does not act directly on the CB1 receptor. It works by multiple actions —what has been termed “polypharmacology,” exerting various effects within different parts of the brain that might defuse seizures. I explain it in comparison to the AEDs that parents are all familiar with.
CBD blocks NMDA receptors, which are involved in excitation. Felbamate acts similarly.
CBD binds to GABA receptors, enhancing the inhibition of excitation —as do Felbamate, Depakote, Tegratol, On , and Phenobarbital.
CBD stabilizes ion channels —as do Banzel, Lamictal, Dilantin, Keppra, and Trileptal.
CBD modulates calcium release in neurons, blocking the uptake of endocannabinoids in order to normalize endocannabinoid tone.
CBD counters in ammatory reactions that appear to in- crease neuronal excitability and impair cell survival. This is why the National Football League is reviewing a proposal that CBD be provided to players suffering head injuries. CBD is neuroprotective; it reduces oxidative stress and glutamate toxicity.
As was this:
Dosing
Realm of Caring developed a dosing protocol for children on Charlotte’s Web that parents are following. For most epilepsy patients, starting dose is 0.5 milligrams per pound per day, divided into three doses to be given at eight-hour intervals (ideally). Thus a 40-pound child would start at 20 milligrams per day divided into three doses. (In pediatric medicine, everything is based on weight because children can outgrow their dose as they gain weight.)
After starting on CBD oil, the children are observed for one or two weeks. Patients whose seizures are less fre- quent —for example only three seizures a month— may be observed for a longer period without increasing the dose. Most of the patients I see have daily seizures, which enables parents to tell quite quickly if there is any benefit from the oil. Parents are asked to keep a diary or calendar of seizures and improvements and to check in every one to two weeks
If the child is doing well, after a week or two the dose is titrated up by increments of 0.5 milligrams per pound per day. It appears from the data collected in Colorado that the therapeutic range is 2 – 6 mg per pound per day for many of the children that respond well to CBD treatment.
Some patients do need higher doses to achieve good results. One little boy was still having about 20 seizures a month on three anti-epileptic drugs. With Charlotte’s Web oil he became seizure free for six months at a dose of 7.5 milligrams per pound per day, and he has been weaned off almost all of the seizure medications.
Doctors using GW Pharmaceuticals’ Epidiolex reportedly have gone as high as 24 milligrams per kilogram per day in an FDA-approved context.
In Colorado one patient has gone as high as 8 milligrams per pound per day.
Concentrated oil is the formulation easiest for the parent giving a dose. When you’re giving close to four milligrams per pound per day to a 50-pound child, you’re giving up to 200 milligrams. If the oil only has 15 milligrams per milliliter, you’re giving that child a lot of oil. In large quantities, even healthful olive oil or coconut oil can cause diarrhea.
Many people think that seizure reduction is the goal of treatment, but it’s only part of the goal. The effects of the conventional anti-epileptic drugs (AEDs) can be debilitating - lethargy, developmental delay, liver damage and more. The ultimate goal for pediatric epilepsy patients is freedom from seizure and the side effects of the AEDs. Interestingly, many parents whose children are having success with CBD oil to treat epilepsy are also reporting that their children have improved sleep, improved appetite, more alertness, and developmental progression. It is these other benficial effects that make CBD a wonderful option for children suffering with seizures.
The rest of the article covers a fairly decent look at epilepsy and it's treatment by conventional medicine. Contrasted by the results she's seeing in her patients and the other studies being done on pediatric patients using cannabis it becomes a lesson in social insanity. She ends the article with an update and some additional invaluable observations on what appears to be a tolerance level concern affecting some patients after nine months or so on CBD oil that can be reset by taking a short holiday.
Seriously, a must read.
- Thread starter
- #69
Dosing Update: Additional Information
You should never take CBD with blood thinners. CBD blocks the enzymes that degrade blood thinners, so taking them together means your thinners are going to become more concentrated in your blood and increase the chance for you to injure yourself and bleed out.
So don't do that. Please. 
You should never take CBD with blood thinners. CBD blocks the enzymes that degrade blood thinners, so taking them together means your thinners are going to become more concentrated in your blood and increase the chance for you to injure yourself and bleed out.
So don't do that. Please.
- Thread starter
- #70
Dosing Update: Additional Information
Green Flower Media is a new site dedicated to offering educational programs on cannabis, in hopes of normalizing our society's relationship with our favorite plant. They have a strong focus on medicinal benefits of cannabis and it's where I've been taking classes in my drive to learn all I can and share what I've learned.
This information is gleaned from an excellent paper they have on their site on CBD.
What ratios are best for different purposes?
Until recently CBD levels were quite low in cannabis. People wanted greater amounts of THC in their herb and so plant breeders began to selectively tip the scales, so to speak.
But now that we've started realizing the medical benefits of CBD, CBD-rich strains have started to become more popular. In fact, we can actually combine three or four strains to land us at precise CBD:THC ratios. The optimal ratio can vary widely depending on the patient's specific needs and comfort levels.
For example, patients in need of pain relief have found that a 1:1 CBD:THC ratio works best as an analgesic. But if the psychoactive effects interfere with functionality or are unpleasant for any reason, the patient may opt for a more CBD-tilted ratio during the day and save the 1:1 for evenings.
Whatever medical purposes you want to fill, it can take some trial and error to find the best ratio. The most important thing is not to give up after the first time and to be patient as you figure out your ultimate regimen.
Everybody's different. Everybody's bodies react in a different way, so we have to be careful with generalizations or assumptions — as with any drug or medication. The important thing here is to have a good dispensary and a knowledgeable budtender or cannabis consultant.
Optimal CBD:THC ratios are very particular to the patient. Finding the right balance often takes a bit of trial and error. Here are some general zones that you might work with to get started.
Possible CBD:THC ratios
Pain relief 1:1
Anxiety relief 8:1 — 2:1
Antiseizure* 30:1, 20:1 and down
Anti-inflammatory 30:1 all the way to 1:1
*(age of the patient is a factor here)
Optimized ratios are usually acquired by mixing various strains.
Green Flower Media is a new site dedicated to offering educational programs on cannabis, in hopes of normalizing our society's relationship with our favorite plant. They have a strong focus on medicinal benefits of cannabis and it's where I've been taking classes in my drive to learn all I can and share what I've learned.
This information is gleaned from an excellent paper they have on their site on CBD.
What ratios are best for different purposes?
Until recently CBD levels were quite low in cannabis. People wanted greater amounts of THC in their herb and so plant breeders began to selectively tip the scales, so to speak.
But now that we've started realizing the medical benefits of CBD, CBD-rich strains have started to become more popular. In fact, we can actually combine three or four strains to land us at precise CBD:THC ratios. The optimal ratio can vary widely depending on the patient's specific needs and comfort levels.
For example, patients in need of pain relief have found that a 1:1 CBD:THC ratio works best as an analgesic. But if the psychoactive effects interfere with functionality or are unpleasant for any reason, the patient may opt for a more CBD-tilted ratio during the day and save the 1:1 for evenings.
Whatever medical purposes you want to fill, it can take some trial and error to find the best ratio. The most important thing is not to give up after the first time and to be patient as you figure out your ultimate regimen.
Everybody's different. Everybody's bodies react in a different way, so we have to be careful with generalizations or assumptions — as with any drug or medication. The important thing here is to have a good dispensary and a knowledgeable budtender or cannabis consultant.
Optimal CBD:THC ratios are very particular to the patient. Finding the right balance often takes a bit of trial and error. Here are some general zones that you might work with to get started.
Possible CBD:THC ratios
Pain relief 1:1
Anxiety relief 8:1 — 2:1
Antiseizure* 30:1, 20:1 and down
Anti-inflammatory 30:1 all the way to 1:1
*(age of the patient is a factor here)
Optimized ratios are usually acquired by mixing various strains.
kelticBlue
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this is an appropriate spot for this, So. I hate to do this here, but Sue/anyone if you were thinking of making a Canna treatment for a cat with hyperThyroid. how would you proceed ? I have seen a dermal treatment through the ears but was thinking a small amount of oil in food might be easiest.
I am loosing my mind a bit here. going to a internist for the cat in about 15 min, out in to the heat wave.
My baby boy is fine until he has a seizure. I read, the thyroid pumps up and over works the kidneys which in turn results in an out of balance system and he has seizures. From what I read a little CBD might calm the system down, I cannot have the little fella in pain. I have looked through the pet section on -420- I am gonna look around some more later today.
So i thinking ultra micro doses.
I am loosing my mind a bit here. going to a internist for the cat in about 15 min, out in to the heat wave.
My baby boy is fine until he has a seizure. I read, the thyroid pumps up and over works the kidneys which in turn results in an out of balance system and he has seizures. From what I read a little CBD might calm the system down, I cannot have the little fella in pain. I have looked through the pet section on -420- I am gonna look around some more later today.
So i thinking ultra micro doses.
- Thread starter
- #72
Not sure if this is an appropriate spot for this, So. I hate to do this here, but Sue/anyone if you were thinking of making a Canna treatment for a cat with hyperThyroid. how would you proceed ? I have seen a dermal treatment through the ears but was thinking a small amount of oil in food might be easiest.
I am loosing my mind a bit here. going to a internist for the cat in about 15 min, out in to the heat wave.
My baby boy is fine until he has a seizure. I read, the thyroid pumps up and over works the kidneys which in turn results in an out of balance system and he has seizures. From what I read a little CBD might calm the system down, I cannot have the little fella in pain. I have looked through the pet section on -420- I am gonna look around some more later today.
So i thinking ultra micro doses.
According to Rick Simpson over at Phoenix Tears, start out with micro doses in his food twice a day, twelve hours apart. He's talking specifically about healing cancer, but it's applicable across the board. Start slow and gradually increase.
"Dogs love to take the oil, but often cats can be somewhat indifferent so you may encounter some problems in getting the oil into the cat, so I would just try to mix a small amount of oil in with their food. Animals heal very quickly when compared to humans and since the oil presents no danger, there is no need to worry about the oil harming your cat, even if you were to give the animal far too much. I would start the cat off by giving it two doses a day twelve hours apart and I would give the cat about a half a drop per dose, then after four days at this dosage it can be raised to one drop per dose. I think you will find that your cat will respond very quickly to this treatment and don’t be concerned if the animal sleeps a great deal, for this is the effect the oil is supposed to cause. It usually takes only a small amount of oil to heal a cat and once the animal has ingested one or two grams, I think you will witness quite a dramatic improvement in the animals overall health."
Good luck keltic. Everything I read about treating pets is positive. Animals respond even faster than humans.
kelticBlue
Well-Known Member
Hi. Hope I am not H-jacking the dosing thread. He has a lymphoma in the intestine, small little thing they found on a sonic scan. Doc tells us we have a type of cancer probably caused by the history of intestinal distress. It is a slow kind, whew. It was a somewhat public area discussion so I didnt bring up endo-canna. Gonna have a check up in 2-3 weeks.
So I have a bunch of frozen trim and some bud, What is the easiest method i could I extract or make some low potency oil from that.
Sorry I have to go back through your study hall, I was thinking of using the coconut oil i have and mixing it into the food. I just need some tiny bit shouldn't be too hard. trying to figure out what i need to get if anything. I would love to start oil by next week.
Not feeling too good, I think I am gonna have a drink-y, falling off the wagon is easy to do. So maybe I will take a break for the day.
So I have a bunch of frozen trim and some bud, What is the easiest method i could I extract or make some low potency oil from that.
Sorry I have to go back through your study hall, I was thinking of using the coconut oil i have and mixing it into the food. I just need some tiny bit shouldn't be too hard. trying to figure out what i need to get if anything. I would love to start oil by next week.
Not feeling too good, I think I am gonna have a drink-y, falling off the wagon is easy to do. So maybe I will take a break for the day.
- Thread starter
- #74
No falling off the wagon necessary my friend. I know this is stressful for you.
Use that method I just did for the pain cream. If your bud's frozen that shouldn't matter. Take it out of the freezer and spread it on a tray to dry out for a day or two, or toss it in the oven on 100, or as low as you can get it, just to dry it out. Then do 2 gm of plant material to 8 tablespoons of coconut oil. Bake for 36 hours on the lowest setting, shaking occasionally. That should give you an excellent oil for the cat. Mix it into his food. Watch him feel better.
Another hug.
Don't worry about asking in the study hall. This is why I'm here.
.
kelticBlue
Well-Known Member
I just read that like 2 days ago, I dont know where my head is.
Thanks for being here there and everywhere.
- Thread starter
- #76
Did the opening strains begin to play inside your head? 
I'll post it on the Spot.
I'll post it on the Spot.
- Thread starter
- #77
Choosing The Right Ratio
Since we've learned of the tremendous medical benefits of CBD more and more CBD-dominant strains have become available, and now there's concern about getting the ratio of THC to CBD right for particular purposes.
Many find that an effective ratio for pain relief is a 1:1 balanced strain. Interestingly, this is the ratio cannabis produces in the wild, left on its own. However, if for any reason euphoria is problematic you can opt to create a more workable ratio that tilts the scales in favor of CBD. This is an attractive option for many who have to work and can't do that high. It makes more sense to use the modifying power of CBD to override the euphoric expression of the THC and save euphoric moments for more appropriate time and place.
Cannabis effects each person in a unique way, so finding the ratios that fit your needs and lifestyle demands can be a bit time-consuming, but well worth the attempt. You can mix different strains together to get the desired ratio, and in the end have a medicine with a more diverse cannabinoid and terpene profile. Win/win.
Those optimal ratios will take some commitment on your part, but the rewards are worth it. Keep trying and tweaking until you have something that really works for you. You're worth it.
Here are some ideas to get you started.
Possible CBD:THC ratios
Pain relief 1:1
Anxiety relief 8:1 — 2:1
Antiseizure* 30:1, 20:1 and down
Anti-inflammatory 30:1 all the way to 1:1
*(age of the patient is a factor here)
Mixing various strains is a good way to get to the optimal ratio.
It should be apparent looking over this list that it's necessary to begin at a sub-therapeutic level and gradually increase your doses. Two patients treating the same illness and taking the same dose can have wildly disparate reactions. Where a 130-pound woman may be comfortable on a dose of 200 mg of cannabinoids, a man weighing 300 pounds on that same dose could feel like he's in outer space, or vice-versa. It's trial and error to get to the optimal therapeutic dose. Apparently, weight has little relevancy to the dosing of cannabis. We're all individual in how our bodies process this marvelous medication. Take the time to find your dose.
Since we've learned of the tremendous medical benefits of CBD more and more CBD-dominant strains have become available, and now there's concern about getting the ratio of THC to CBD right for particular purposes.
Many find that an effective ratio for pain relief is a 1:1 balanced strain. Interestingly, this is the ratio cannabis produces in the wild, left on its own. However, if for any reason euphoria is problematic you can opt to create a more workable ratio that tilts the scales in favor of CBD. This is an attractive option for many who have to work and can't do that high. It makes more sense to use the modifying power of CBD to override the euphoric expression of the THC and save euphoric moments for more appropriate time and place.
Cannabis effects each person in a unique way, so finding the ratios that fit your needs and lifestyle demands can be a bit time-consuming, but well worth the attempt. You can mix different strains together to get the desired ratio, and in the end have a medicine with a more diverse cannabinoid and terpene profile. Win/win.
Those optimal ratios will take some commitment on your part, but the rewards are worth it. Keep trying and tweaking until you have something that really works for you. You're worth it.
Here are some ideas to get you started.
Possible CBD:THC ratios
Pain relief 1:1
Anxiety relief 8:1 — 2:1
Antiseizure* 30:1, 20:1 and down
Anti-inflammatory 30:1 all the way to 1:1
*(age of the patient is a factor here)
Mixing various strains is a good way to get to the optimal ratio.
It should be apparent looking over this list that it's necessary to begin at a sub-therapeutic level and gradually increase your doses. Two patients treating the same illness and taking the same dose can have wildly disparate reactions. Where a 130-pound woman may be comfortable on a dose of 200 mg of cannabinoids, a man weighing 300 pounds on that same dose could feel like he's in outer space, or vice-versa. It's trial and error to get to the optimal therapeutic dose. Apparently, weight has little relevancy to the dosing of cannabis. We're all individual in how our bodies process this marvelous medication. Take the time to find your dose.
- Thread starter
- #78
5:1 BioBomb Capsules
Be aware that these are powerful capsules that will hit your system hard and fast. Onset is typically within 5-10 minutes and, unlike other edibles, it hits at full force and stays that way for up to 10 hours. This is not an exaggeration. I typically take the next capsule somewhere around hours 7-9.
The basic recipe for the 5:1 mix is (1 gr CCO + 5 ml coconut oil) + 15 ml lecithin + 45 ml coconut oil. For medicinal purposes you may want to choose another carrier oil. Olive oil is an excellent choice for just about everything except liver cancer, in which case you want coconut oil. Using olive oil, or another long-chained fatty acid helps the cannabinoids avoid first-pass through the liver. For recreational purposes, go with coconut. It goes right into the liver after the stomach and gets metabolized. Metabolization = great buzz.
If you're using less than a gram of CCO you just adjust the recipe proportionately. I've made capsules with as little as 0.2 ml of CCO.
The Process
1 gram of CCO added to 5 ml of coconut oil. Set the dish in a hot water bath, just at boiling. Turn the fire off when the water gets to boiling.
When the CCO begins to melt into the coconut oil you can begin to stir. Get it completely mixed together before you move to the next step.
I use the end of my teaspoon to stir. It's stainless, has a small but effective surface area and does the job for me.
Add 45 ml of coconut oil and 15 ml of liquid sunflower lecithin.
Stir together until it's all thoroughly mixed. When you think it's mixed enough let it sit for a few seconds to see if anything's trying to separate out. If so, keep mixing.
Seal the mixture securely and refrigerate overnight. This bonds the components together in a way that won't happen without the chill.
After at least 12 hours remove from the refrigerator and let it slowly come to room temperature. Check to be sure it's all well mixed and fill the 00 capsules. This size capsule can also be used as a suppository.
These are my personal protocol. To be honest, I'm not certain many could tolerate this as well as I do, so I caution you to know your own limits. To keep it all in perspective this is level three of a progressively increasing dose schedule.
The ratios are Carrier oil:CCO The only thing that changes is the initial measurement of carrier oil, the one you melt the CCO into. Everything else stays the same.
Level one - 20:1
Level two - 10:1
Level three - 5:1
Level four - 1:1
Level five - 0:1
Storage: Any heated oil has the potential to go bad without proper storage. I feel comfortable with leaving a week's supply out, but any more than that should be stored in the refrigerator. Just about everyone tells you not to freeze the capsules except, interestingly enough, BadKat, who contributed much to this idea of making cannabis more bioavailable. Her contention is that freezing helps to break the oil down into smaller and smaller components. There's a good deal of scientific thought behind that. I store mine in the fridge. You make your own choice.
Enjoy. If you make any, let me know how it goes.
Be aware that these are powerful capsules that will hit your system hard and fast. Onset is typically within 5-10 minutes and, unlike other edibles, it hits at full force and stays that way for up to 10 hours. This is not an exaggeration. I typically take the next capsule somewhere around hours 7-9.
The basic recipe for the 5:1 mix is (1 gr CCO + 5 ml coconut oil) + 15 ml lecithin + 45 ml coconut oil. For medicinal purposes you may want to choose another carrier oil. Olive oil is an excellent choice for just about everything except liver cancer, in which case you want coconut oil. Using olive oil, or another long-chained fatty acid helps the cannabinoids avoid first-pass through the liver. For recreational purposes, go with coconut. It goes right into the liver after the stomach and gets metabolized. Metabolization = great buzz.
If you're using less than a gram of CCO you just adjust the recipe proportionately. I've made capsules with as little as 0.2 ml of CCO.
The Process
1 gram of CCO added to 5 ml of coconut oil. Set the dish in a hot water bath, just at boiling. Turn the fire off when the water gets to boiling.
When the CCO begins to melt into the coconut oil you can begin to stir. Get it completely mixed together before you move to the next step.
I use the end of my teaspoon to stir. It's stainless, has a small but effective surface area and does the job for me.
Add 45 ml of coconut oil and 15 ml of liquid sunflower lecithin.
Stir together until it's all thoroughly mixed. When you think it's mixed enough let it sit for a few seconds to see if anything's trying to separate out. If so, keep mixing.
Seal the mixture securely and refrigerate overnight. This bonds the components together in a way that won't happen without the chill.
After at least 12 hours remove from the refrigerator and let it slowly come to room temperature. Check to be sure it's all well mixed and fill the 00 capsules. This size capsule can also be used as a suppository.
These are my personal protocol. To be honest, I'm not certain many could tolerate this as well as I do, so I caution you to know your own limits. To keep it all in perspective this is level three of a progressively increasing dose schedule.
The ratios are Carrier oil:CCO The only thing that changes is the initial measurement of carrier oil, the one you melt the CCO into. Everything else stays the same.
Level one - 20:1
Level two - 10:1
Level three - 5:1
Level four - 1:1
Level five - 0:1
Storage: Any heated oil has the potential to go bad without proper storage. I feel comfortable with leaving a week's supply out, but any more than that should be stored in the refrigerator. Just about everyone tells you not to freeze the capsules except, interestingly enough, BadKat, who contributed much to this idea of making cannabis more bioavailable. Her contention is that freezing helps to break the oil down into smaller and smaller components. There's a good deal of scientific thought behind that. I store mine in the fridge. You make your own choice.
Enjoy. If you make any, let me know how it goes.
- Thread starter
- #79
My thoughts on dosing with the BioBomb capsules.
It's an unfortunate reality that we live in a Prohibitionist society that's preventing us from exploring in a lab setting what exactly is going on with these capsules. As it is I've spent considerable time researching on line about them and giving much thought as to how they'd best be applied. Please understand, I have no training in this field, just a passion to learn everything relevant and reliable that I can on using cannabis medicinally so I can pass this information on to you. I do my best to sort out the trash, and that's the best I can do. I count on your input if you see something glaringly wrong that I missed, or if you have new insight that could help us all gain greater knowledge.
These are powerful medicine, far beyond what you'd expect. There's obviously a synergistic action going on, and I believe it's the addition of the lecithin. Cajun's explained it to us at least twice, but the limitations of digital communications can sometimes be more challenging than we'd like and that understanding is still just beyond my grasp, but the lecithin has components that increase the effectiveness of the cannabinoids. Sooner or later I'll figure out how to explain that better. Please be patient with me.
The standard instructions on these capsules are to use 00 capsules and dose once or twice a day. This protocol concerns me, because we know that cannabinoids only have a limited time in the system before they're cleared. Cajun's been emphatic about the necessity to keep constant pressure on the tumor cells, and that requires a dosing schedule of three to four times a day.
So, with the understanding that we're all lab rats here, this is my best shot at a dosing approach with BioBomb capsules.
First off, if you're treating a serious disease there should be labs done at least every three months. With cancer that schedule should be accelerated. These labs will give you the indicators for increasing the potency of the capsules. The only reasons I'd recommend you proceed without labs is if you have no access to those labs - an unfortunate reality for too many of us - , you know you're increasing to get to a higher level by design (i.e. You're treating cancer and know you want to get to 1 gram a day), or if you have symptoms like pain that aren't responsive to the lower potency doses.
Next, it's standard procedure to use size 00 capsules. These hold a gram (ml) of oil. If you're taking two a day recreationally or to treat something other than cancer this may be fine. If you're treating something you want constant pressure on you can split the doses up and use the size 0 capsules, which hold 1/2 gr of oil. If you're treating cancer you'll be using these capsules as suppositories as well, and they won't cause euphoria, so you can use the 00 size for them.
Recreation: start at 10:1 mix, up to two capsules a day, spaced apart appropriate to your schedule and lifestyle. Careful about taking two together. The same applies to the 5:1 mix - two capsules a day, taken far apart. The higher doses aren't for recreational use. Be responsible and stick to the 5:1.
For medicinal doses you might want to make a smaller batch to begin with, because you may be increasing potency in about a week and you don't want to find yourself with a mass of capsules in the wrong mix.
Medicinally, start with a 20:1 mix. Take a capsule and wait 90 minutes. If you don't feel anything, take another and wait another 90 minutes. You're looking for the dose that you can feel, but it's not uncomfortably euphoric. You'll know it when you find it. If you get up to four capsules you should be working in the 10:1 mix IMHO. For minor illness a single daily dose of the 20:1 may be sufficient. If it's not, I'd suggest adding in a second dose in the day before you increase to the 10:1. If you know you're going to increase, and you're comfortable with the 20:1 dose you established make the change after a good week, one without any dosing problems (too much euphoria, confusion, sleeping too much, etc).
The 10:1 dose is where I'd suggest you begin using the size 0 capsules and work up to a schedule of four doses a day. I'd start with two doses, evenly spaced and then introduce one more at a time as tolerated. Once you're at four 1/2 gr doses a day stay there until you have good reason to move to the next level.
If you're treating cancer this is where you'd be introducing suppositories, which use the 00 size. If you're treating cancer you should be consulting with us at cajuncelt's cancer protocol thread or under the careful eye of your own personal caregiver.
The 1:1 and 0:1 doses are a little problematic for me. This is totally unexplored territory for me, but reason says if you're at this level you should be taking the doses by anal administration, four times a day. I can't see how taking that high a dose orally can benefit anyone when suppositories are the best option. It also occurs to me that few people need to be at this dose and no one should be there without some medical oversight. If you're taking a dose that high there should be labs to justify it. Do extreme situations exist? Certainly, and no one here will judge your decision to make your own care choices. I'll just caution you and leave it at that.
That's my best shot on this for today. As always, it's an extremely fluid field and new information is pouring in with each passing day. I welcome any and all input to this process. If we're going to be forced into the job of lab rats let's be the best damned lab rats we can be.
It's an unfortunate reality that we live in a Prohibitionist society that's preventing us from exploring in a lab setting what exactly is going on with these capsules. As it is I've spent considerable time researching on line about them and giving much thought as to how they'd best be applied. Please understand, I have no training in this field, just a passion to learn everything relevant and reliable that I can on using cannabis medicinally so I can pass this information on to you. I do my best to sort out the trash, and that's the best I can do. I count on your input if you see something glaringly wrong that I missed, or if you have new insight that could help us all gain greater knowledge.
These are powerful medicine, far beyond what you'd expect. There's obviously a synergistic action going on, and I believe it's the addition of the lecithin. Cajun's explained it to us at least twice, but the limitations of digital communications can sometimes be more challenging than we'd like and that understanding is still just beyond my grasp, but the lecithin has components that increase the effectiveness of the cannabinoids. Sooner or later I'll figure out how to explain that better. Please be patient with me.
The standard instructions on these capsules are to use 00 capsules and dose once or twice a day. This protocol concerns me, because we know that cannabinoids only have a limited time in the system before they're cleared. Cajun's been emphatic about the necessity to keep constant pressure on the tumor cells, and that requires a dosing schedule of three to four times a day.
So, with the understanding that we're all lab rats here, this is my best shot at a dosing approach with BioBomb capsules.
First off, if you're treating a serious disease there should be labs done at least every three months. With cancer that schedule should be accelerated. These labs will give you the indicators for increasing the potency of the capsules. The only reasons I'd recommend you proceed without labs is if you have no access to those labs - an unfortunate reality for too many of us - , you know you're increasing to get to a higher level by design (i.e. You're treating cancer and know you want to get to 1 gram a day), or if you have symptoms like pain that aren't responsive to the lower potency doses.
Next, it's standard procedure to use size 00 capsules. These hold a gram (ml) of oil. If you're taking two a day recreationally or to treat something other than cancer this may be fine. If you're treating something you want constant pressure on you can split the doses up and use the size 0 capsules, which hold 1/2 gr of oil. If you're treating cancer you'll be using these capsules as suppositories as well, and they won't cause euphoria, so you can use the 00 size for them.
Recreation: start at 10:1 mix, up to two capsules a day, spaced apart appropriate to your schedule and lifestyle. Careful about taking two together. The same applies to the 5:1 mix - two capsules a day, taken far apart. The higher doses aren't for recreational use. Be responsible and stick to the 5:1.
For medicinal doses you might want to make a smaller batch to begin with, because you may be increasing potency in about a week and you don't want to find yourself with a mass of capsules in the wrong mix.
Medicinally, start with a 20:1 mix. Take a capsule and wait 90 minutes. If you don't feel anything, take another and wait another 90 minutes. You're looking for the dose that you can feel, but it's not uncomfortably euphoric. You'll know it when you find it. If you get up to four capsules you should be working in the 10:1 mix IMHO. For minor illness a single daily dose of the 20:1 may be sufficient. If it's not, I'd suggest adding in a second dose in the day before you increase to the 10:1. If you know you're going to increase, and you're comfortable with the 20:1 dose you established make the change after a good week, one without any dosing problems (too much euphoria, confusion, sleeping too much, etc).
The 10:1 dose is where I'd suggest you begin using the size 0 capsules and work up to a schedule of four doses a day. I'd start with two doses, evenly spaced and then introduce one more at a time as tolerated. Once you're at four 1/2 gr doses a day stay there until you have good reason to move to the next level.
If you're treating cancer this is where you'd be introducing suppositories, which use the 00 size. If you're treating cancer you should be consulting with us at cajuncelt's cancer protocol thread or under the careful eye of your own personal caregiver.
The 1:1 and 0:1 doses are a little problematic for me. This is totally unexplored territory for me, but reason says if you're at this level you should be taking the doses by anal administration, four times a day. I can't see how taking that high a dose orally can benefit anyone when suppositories are the best option. It also occurs to me that few people need to be at this dose and no one should be there without some medical oversight. If you're taking a dose that high there should be labs to justify it. Do extreme situations exist? Certainly, and no one here will judge your decision to make your own care choices. I'll just caution you and leave it at that.
That's my best shot on this for today. As always, it's an extremely fluid field and new information is pouring in with each passing day. I welcome any and all input to this process. If we're going to be forced into the job of lab rats let's be the best damned lab rats we can be.
Thanks for sharing Sue! You are a lifesaver!!!!
