Cannabis and Veterinary Use

[McIDDI]

Hey, all. I would like to know if any of you out there have been using cannabis for your companion animals. To be clear, I am talking about purely medical use, not getting my dog stoned.

I have an 8 year old pug with severe arthritis and some allergy/skin issues. I used to have two pugs, but Bella died a few weeks ago as a result of complications from her arthritis med (Metacam) which both dogs have been on for just over six years. When I got the necropsy report from Bella and realized the Metacam caused her death, I immediately started talking to the vet about alternatives. As a MMJ user myself, I asked about cannabis and dogs. Talked with three vets total (Bella saw a lot of vets that last week before her ulcers perforated and made her septic, she was hospitalized in a university teaching hospital, so lots of different docs involved). Anyway, all the vets were positive and supportive of the idea, but none had any idea how to proceed.

The problem, for me, was dosage. I had tried just blowing my vapor exhales at her, but she hates the smell, plus it didn't seem to have any effect. So next I tried putting a very small pinch of ABV in her food bowl. Worked a TREAT. I now separate my high CBD ABV and the indica ABV separately- she gets harlequin in the am and a pinch of an indica ABV blend in the evening (primarily kushes as that is what works for me at night).

A couple of times I have given a slightly too large pinch and she looked stoned- just stared at me and swayed ever so slightly. But for the most part, this experiment has been a brilliant success. Dog thinks she is three years old again!

Anyway, I just wanted to open a discussion, as I do believe our companion animals can also benefit greatly from cannabis. Hopefully, some of you out there have also been down this road with a pet, and I would love to hear what y'all may have learned doing the same for your pet.

Thanks for reading this post!

McIddi (Mickey)

 

[gloman]

HIGH McIDDI,
I too am very attached to my little friend. He is a mix of Chiuaua & Minpin, and getting a bit stoved up as we all do when we're older than dirt. lol
I haven't even thought about getting him to use the mmj though. I guess because I have no clue how it affects them & don't want to risk hurting my buddy. Not everything that is good for people is good for dogs.
I understand your plight, and am very sorry for your loss. To ME, it's harder loosing a true hearted companion like that than it is to lose people. Just me I guess, but my dog never lies, stabs me in the back or quits loving me cuz someone new came around. Can't say that for most people I've known.
I'm VERY interested in your long term treatment results as well as the symptom relief you've posted about.
Best of luck to you & your little friend.
Please keep us updated.
Thanks
gloman

 

[McIDDI]

Hi Gloman, thx for posting. I absolutely had concerns about safety as well before I made the decision to try it for Maggie. I read a lot of internet pages regarding dogs and cannabis, most of which were veterinary OD warnings. However, in reading the OD info, I noticed some similarities to the general anti-cannabis arguments which contain alarmist and disingenuous "facts". Meaning, I did not feel terribly confident in the "evidence" that cannabis is harmful to dogs. For one, almost all those stories related to dogs who ate a SIGNIFICANT amount of edibles.

So my conclusion is that I felt it was safe to try, using ABV to start and if needed going from there. My dog weighs 14 lbs. I use a highly unscientific measurement of a "pinch" for her Meds. Twice, I have pinched up too much. She was fine, but she was high. Sat there and calmly gazed at me, all the while swaying ever so gently side to side. I have since started collecting her ABV into high CBD and Indica containers so that I can medicate her the way I would for myself if I was treating pain like hers.

I also admit I was greatly encouraged by the accepting attitudes of the vets I spoke to about it. One concern I also had before I tried it was whether a future vet might have an issue with cannabis and interpret what I was doing as abusive. And if a vet calls the cops and says I am abusing my dog, I go to jail. Period. Animal abuse is a mandatory custodial arrest around here. So making this decision for Maggie carries some risk in my mind. And yet, I chose as I did anyway. And I am comfortable with it, and very pleased at how it has worked out for her.

I do occasionally have to supplement with one of her old pain Meds, Tramadol. She's old, it is wet and slippery here in Oregon, and she stresses joints trying to go too fast on the deck (a problem that never came up before cannabis, as she moved like a 100 year old woman before). So when she develops a hitch in her giddy-up, she gets half a Tramadol at midday for a couple days, then back to normal.

Well, don't want to babble at ya, so I'll just say thanks and scoot!

McIddi
-Mickey

 

[gloman]

Wow, McIddi, you have really done a lot of homework on this. You have my UTMOST respect. Being willing to do Whatever it takes to bring comfort to your most loyal friend in the world, SHOULD be Any pet owners mind set.

BRAVO! The laws are getting better for the animals. Penalties should be sever for abusing animals. They aren't able to tell anybody. It's our JOB to take care of them. Don't want the law to come, be nice. Simple.
I'm in rural Illinois, and the general mind set here isn't as good as it should be, but many people around here are farmers and to them the animals serve a useful purpose or their gone. lol I'd turn a cow into a pet. lol

I tend to believe it won't do anything bad either, unless of course like you said they eat tooo much & get stoned.
I'm thinking I might try like you, "small pinches" and see how he feels. (my guy is 21lbs.) His name is Little One.
I'm sure we could both sit here and post about out little buddies for days, but I guess we shouldn't. lol
Thanks for your input. This helps me AND Little One.
Best of luck & health to you AND Maggie.
gloman

 

[hathor]

I also admit I was greatly encouraged by the accepting attitudes of the vets I spoke to about it. One concern I also had before I tried it was whether a future vet might have an issue with cannabis and interpret what I was doing as abusive. And if a vet calls the cops and says I am abusing my dog, I go to jail. Period.

I actually just started treating my cats and you have me wondering what will happen if this comes up with either vet. It's not legal at all in my state so I could not ask the vets beforehand. I've known one of the two for a long time, enough to know that if he objected he would dress me down to my face but not turn me into the authorities. The other I'm not so sure.

 

[Peter Parker]

Heya McIDDI, sounds like you have found a great way to relieve pain for your pug. I'm not much of a fan of smaller dogs, but pugs have such a fantastic personality!! I had a pug once and found they're super cute and make fantastic companions, are often friendly with any and all dogs & people.

With our pets I find we develop a very good sense of their "emotional" state via observing body language. In other words you would be best at knowing if the mmj was making a positive difference in Maggie's quality of life through pain relief.

But please be wary of our selfish "want" to prolong our pets lives because it sucks so much to lose them. Always weigh the pros/cons with an unbiased point of view...for Maggie's sake. This isn't from the perspective that pot for a dog would be harmful to the dog, but from the perspective that the pot is a wicked pain reliever...errr... band-aid for any and all forms of pain. To your point about stressing her joints too much on the porch because Maggie is more active then before....remember the mmj doesn't heal the joints...she is still a fragile dog.

btw I see using pot on a dog in this fashion as no more experimental then using some pharma drug that a vet recommends, I'd a dogs liver / kidneys take a toll with any pharma drug. Seeing my dad's dog go through a long and incorrect diagnoses lead me to believe in this area (pharma drugs) Vets are quacks. Turns out my dad as a last resort asked a pharmacist at work who then asks what the dog is taking...."Oh, she's probably hallucinating from the steroids in that medication." A medication to rid the dog of fleas no less....that has steroids which can cause hallucinations and reek havoc on kidneys/liver & hormones. Surely the "medication" has a nice margin ($) though. Maybe held a seminar for vets at a resort in Florida or something lol

lol Why on Earth would you blow smoke in your dogs face? (rhetorical)

 

[McIDDI]

Sorry it took me a few days to reply- have you started Little One on cannabis yet? If so, how do you think he is doing on the new med? Maggie seems to have settled into her dose- not sleeping all day (well, she is a pug), and has finally remembered she is old. So she is basically back to normal, without the limping and inability to sit still. She can now relax. Let us know how Little One does if you do try him on cannabis. Have a great day

-Mickey

 

[McIDDI]

Peter-

No worries, it is a valid question. I tried blowing vapor (not smoke) in her general direction because I was trying to get an idea of how much might be needed to give her relief, and I wanted to be cautious, so I was wanting to see if a little bit of vapor would do the trick. She just wrinkled her nose and turned her head (she was about two feet away, I just exhaled my toke in the direction of the dog bed). Getting her to take pills has been somewhat fussy, and I thought if just blowing vape exhales at her would work, it would be a stress-free way to medicate her. She didn't like the smell, and it had zero discernible effect, so I moved on to the pinch of ABV method that is still in use since it worked a treat.

So, that explanation aside, you make a GREAT point about watching her activity levels, for a couple weeks she was happily bouncing around like a young dog and I did have some concerns since the cannabis is not a magic wand and she has severe arthritis. Fortunately, she seems to have acclimated and is acting basically her age, just is not in pain. My dog has developed a tolerance!

I will continue to pay close attention to how she is doing- she has had a lot of medical issues for years (cancer, abdominal surgeries, the arthritis that was bad at age two, both knees done, etc. this has been one hella expensive dog, no damn lie!) so I kinda treat her as medically fragile as a normal course. All in all, I really think that the change to cannabis from the other Meds she was taking has been a rousing success. Got her a tad high a couple times (which she didn't seem to mind so much, ha), and a couple times gave not quite enough and so she was all fidgety (fidgeting is a big red flag for me that she is in pain, BTW) but I think I have got the dose dialed in now.

Anyway, thanks for reading the thread and sharing your thoughts! Have a great day, Spidey!

-Mickey

 

[McIDDI]

Well, I'd just try broaching the subject to gauge the vet's reaction. Maybe you could say a friend's (one who lives in a MMJ friendly state perhaps) cat has similar issues and gives their cat MMJ to good effect and ask them if they know anything about vet use, as your "friend's" experience has been positive? This opens the subject while not implying in any way that you yourself have cannabis laying about!

-Mickey

 

[McIDDI]

I actually just started treating my cats. [\QUOTE]

I totally forgot to ask- do you want to share how your experience treating your cats has gone? There are probably more than a couple cat owners around here who would find the details (like dosing, method of admin, effects, and whatnot) really valuable and/or interesting. I don't have cats myself, but am still interested in veterinary cannabis use in general, so I'd love to hear how your experience is going.

Hope you are having a great day

-Mickey

 

[gloman]

Sorry it took me a few days to reply- have you started Little One on cannabis yet? If so, how do you think he is doing on the new med? Maggie seems to have settled into her dose- not sleeping all day (well, she is a pug), and has finally remembered she is old. So she is basically back to normal, without the limping and inability to sit still. She can now relax. Let us know how Little One does if you do try him on cannabis. Have a great day

-Mickey

Hi,
I did try it on little one & gave him too much. If he hadn't been so anxious, or nervous, it would have been fine, but I ended up laying with him for about 10 hrs. before he was back up on his feet.
I only gave him a tiny piece of a snack cake I was eating, but it was too much.
The next day though, I'll be honest, he was playful as a puppy. You could tell he felt good for a change. I WILL continue giving him some, but I'll weigh his to be sure I don't give him too much again.
I think maybe a 10th of a gram to start of NON decarboxolated sugar leaf sprinkled in his food & adjust up as needed. Poor guy only weighs 21lbs. lol gotta keep that in mind.
I'm SO glad to hear you have Maggie dialed in. Our little buddies give us so much. I'm willing to go out on the edge to give my guy the best life I can.

 

[hathor]

I actually just started treating my cats. [\QUOTE]

I totally forgot to ask- do you want to share how your experience treating your cats has gone? There are probably more than a couple cat owners around here who would find the details (like dosing, method of admin, effects, and whatnot) really valuable and/or interesting. I don't have cats myself, but am still interested in veterinary cannabis use in general, so I'd love to hear how your experience is going.

Hope you are having a great day

-Mickey

Hey there,

that's a good idea for approaching the subject with the vet(s), thanks. Actually I did start a thread on how my cats are responding, it's in this sub-board (Trying transdermal cococnut oil extract on cats (ears)). It's going well so far--Cat3 is going for an annual visit Tuesday so we'll see what's what.

Thanks!

 

[gloman]

Hi McIDDI,
Well, I've got little one on a measured amount now, 1/2 of a 1/10g once a day now to start. He hasn't shown any sign of it one way or the other yet. I'll give it another week & up the dose to a 1/10g per day & so on.
I hope Maggie is still doing well.
gloman

 

[420 Motoco]

The wife and I has been dosing our Yorkie over a 1 1/2 with concentrated cannabis oil. After we dose in the PM 'Sheeba' licks one of our fingers for her dose. 1st time she was bobbing and weaving a tad but has been fine ever since. Once she ate a small bud I dropped and didn't know about & she was out for a day and woke up fine the next morning....just know they will be fine.

Sheeba's ear infections have gone and haven't came back (major problem for a year or so) and she is fit as a fiddle. They LOVE the oil concentrate, they have receptors also .

I know a couple of Vets that use the concentrate on horses as well as dogs but mainly it is for skin cancer...but they are learning that it is for much more.

 

[norsoon]

my german shepherd died last september, we couldnt understand why, she was receiving acupuncture and had been on arthritis meds for a year, most natural and homeopathic granules - she was on metacam as well ....... the speacilist wanted to do an autopsy but i decided to bury her straight away. At the time i hadnt heard about canna oil ....

 

[420 Motoco]

Losing a loved pet stays with you forever. Understanding how life cycles work, its so hard to accept sometimes simply because our beloved pets only want love and affection and readily give it back. I for one love all living things.

You should start looking into whole plant (RAW) research. This process involves using the cannabinoids in their natural state. An example is THCa, CBDa and CBNa. When these cannabinoids are decarboxylated they become THC, CBD, CBN as in cannabis concentrated oil. they work different in the healing process. You should give a 'brother' a hand and help look into this. It will not only help our pets/animals but humans as well as we share a common factor having receptors for the cannabinoids. I know a lot of this may sound like you need a lab coat (I really try to keep it simple, like me), not so, and is very interesting. Thing is, no matter what and how you use MJJ in all its glorious forms its a natural and safe wonder medication. This is something you should research, learn for yourself and pass on to others as you won't get much help right now from Vets. It is not their fault they know little about MMJ/Concentrates as it has been suppressed from them as well as Dr.s., in fact everyone.

T/C

 

[norsoon]

Thank You, I will definitely look into it. Its phenomenal how people are talking about and using the oil and salve here. it was on a tv program the other night, I think a first in our country, one of the opposition MP's is using it and handed a paper on the uses of medicinal marijuana to our President who has told him to pass it on to the Minister of Health : ) so hopefully it will be debated in Parliament soon. It was also on the cover of Natural Health Mag. So things are looking up, I gave samples of the salve to 3 of my moms friends and to my mom and they are amazed at results. Have told them to google 420mag for more info : )

 

[norsoon]

i have told my 2 horse vets and they are open to learning more and a small animal vet/acupuncturist/hydrotherapy and her assistant were the ones who put me onto the oil, from there I asked a herbalist where i could get good quality pure oil and since then it has snowballed : )

 

[420 Motoco]

That is how it works norsoon. Word of mouth and finding correct knowledge for nothing more than just helping others & our beloved animals. Still tread lightly and speak to trusted people until such laws are in place. Thank you so much for spreading awareness to your vets! Any way I can help with dosing properly, etc., and information I gather we can help each other in the learning process. I'm truly glad we have meant to help each other.

Take care

i have told my 2 horse vets and they are open to learning more and a small animal vet/acupuncturist/hydrotherapy and her assistant were the ones who put me onto the oil, from there I asked a herbalist where i could get good quality pure oil and since then it has snowballed : )

 

[Billyjack]

I have 5 dogs now, all of them rescues so I have a lot of experience with sick/injured animals and I know from experience that most of the medications prescribed for dogs are the same medication used to treat people. We also know that marijuana is not toxic to dogs so in my opinion, good enough for people is good enough for dogs. I lost a pug to cancer 5 years ago and I really wished I knew then what I know now about marijuana. The treatment she received was just as bad as the cancer. This is no fault of our vet but the steroids and other drugs took a hard toll on her.

I would say if you have a vet that is willing to support a marijuana based treatment plan, you are half way home. One thing I would suggest to people is to really look at what you are feeding your pets. We have had several dogs die of cancer and others who had skin,stomach, ear and other problems and once we moved away from low quality dog food, we have had far fewer problems. This does not mean you need to buy expensive bagged food, you can also make it. If you eat a healthy diet, for the most part, you can feed your dogs the same thing. Just avoid garlic, onions and those foods that are toxic to dogs.