Browning around leaf edges

[Ups]

Hey guys,

Would love your input on the progress of my 3 lover girls. Got some signs of deficiencies/excess in the leaves. Photos are below and all three are showing more or less the same issue, or so it seems to me. Each plant has a just a few leaves that look as in the photos, I’m just worried about it getting worse and hindering my bud growth.

Some Details:
It’s the end of week 4 of flower. I’ve been watering 2-3 times a week, and feeding every other or every 2 waterings with BioBizz Bloom. There are 3 plants, 2 of which are in larger 20L and 12L fabric pots and the 3rd smaller plant in a small 5L fabric pot. I didn’t have the chance to transplant all three plants, just one of them before flower so the other 2 are still in the same soil as when I transplanted from the 2nd week of veg.
I don’t get very much run off after watering but at most I use about 7L-10L of water for all three plants.

I’ve had the signs for about a week now but haven’t been able to get any positive results so I’m turning now to you my fellow pot growers to help me get the best out of these buds.
Any further information you might need I will of course be happy to oblige.
Smoke on!

 

[Bounce3d]

hey, lets wait for more to jump in but from my understanding is during flower cal/mag are important and the most common def to look out for

 

[Ups]

Hey @Bounce3d ,

Yeah man, thanks for the input. I was thinking the same thing. I’m not feeding them a lot at all and the fact that the soil is getting “old” definitely gets me thinking that it could be a cal/mag thing. Is there only cal/mag liquid supplements that I can use to help the girls or are there other ways of getting it in there? I don’t have any good suppliers where I am and delivery will take a while.
Thanks again!

 

[bobrown14]

Maybe over-watering with possible thrips damage.

 

[Bounce3d]

hey @Ups

found on this site awhile ago, that you can take egg shells, crush them down and boil for awhile, strain the shells out and you will have a low dose cal but being ''organic'' it doesnt store for long so best to use what you need then toss the rest.
for Mg you can use epsom salts

just google for dilutions

 

[Bounce3d]

can also use calcium nitrate but that you can only give in a drench, not a foliar as it has nitrate that will burn the leaves

 

[BakedARea]

Or make your own organic CalMag...

To me, and this is just a guess, is you are overwatering them. With over watering, you will be leaching out nutrients and minerals at a faster rate as well. Try to keep track of each container intake and usage between days and that may help you hold back on the water.

 

[Ups]

Hey @bobrown14 and @Bounce3d

Thanks for the info and input! Looking into all of these possibilities and will get back to you shortly!
One of the bigger leaves that started showing symptoms was so dry it snapped in the middle of the stem. It wasn’t super effected by whatever the problem is but for it to snap like that I figure it might reveal more of what might actually be going on.
I could be over watering.. definitely can’t rule that out. I’ll do some more poking around the forums to get a better idea as to when enough is enough when watering.
Thanks again guys!
Happy growing

 

[Emeraldo]

At first I thought over-watering, but that can't be the problem if you water 2 or 3 L per plant three times a week with no runoff. I guess you are indoors, and all three plants have the same problem.

Seems to be affecting only older well-established leaves, not new growth.

Some of the leaves look wilted as well as browning and damaged around the edges, suggesting a possible potassium deficiency, not uncommon in mid-flowering when the plant is K-hungry.

This kind of wilting also looks like a nutrient lock-out, suggesting that maybe too much of your bloom bizz might be preventing K uptake. That might cause K-deficiency symptoms (even though K is present and plentiful). If so, the solution is not to feed more nutrients but to stop feeding. I'm not saying you need to flush, but that is an option if you have over-fertilized (which is so easy to do with liquid nutes).

You might explore those angles. I would also consider transplanting the 5L, even at this stage, into a larger pot with fresh soil, allowing the roots to grow further. But since even the plants in the 20 and 12 L pots are equally affected, it may not be the amount of soil but the quality of your soil. I'd definitely explore the lockout issue. If it's thrips as Bob suggested, you have a grow-room problem.

Minimum, I would definitely stop the bloom feed (you don't know what the product is doing for your plants) and just give plenty of water and watch the new growth for signs of recovery. The damaged leaves won't recover.

 

[Ups]

Hey @BakedARea
Your comment just loaded after I posted mine.
I’ll definitely be more attentive to the quantity. I know already about how many L’s I’ve been using to water so I’ll try honing it down a bit. I see what you’re saying about it draining out nutrients and I have noticed that the runoff water has been pretty clear so you could definitely be right about that. Any suggestions as to how to get back on track? Should i feed more often? (Feed-feed-water) or maybe incorporate some high PK fertilizer on the top soil?
Cheers

 

[Ups]

Hey @Emeraldo ,

Lock out are the words I fear most because I have absolutely no idea how I can tell if it’s the case. It’s true that I water only a few liters per plant but there is just a little runoff.
I was worried about the soil not having much nutrients in it as @BakedARea suggested since my non feeding days come out with pretty clear runoff, but that could be a total misreading on my part. I’ve just been a little on the worried side because it’s been about a week now and while the flowers are maturing, I don’t notice any real growth in bud size.. but if they’re locked out, that would explain it too.
How do I go about trouble shooting this??
Peace

 

[Emeraldo]

Hey @Emeraldo ,

Lock out are the words I fear most because I have absolutely no idea how I can tell if it’s the case. It’s true that I water only a few liters per plant but there is just a little runoff.
I was worried about the soil not having much nutrients in it as @BakedARea suggested since my non feeding days come out with pretty clear runoff, but that could be a total misreading on my part. I’ve just been a little on the worried side because it’s been about a week now and while the flowers are maturing, I don’t notice any real growth in bud size.. but if they’re locked out, that would explain it too.
How do I go about trouble shooting this??
Peace

If it were my grow, I'd transplant the 5L into fresh soil and give her water only. Then wait and see how she reacts.

Your problem is probably not overwatering. Flushing with plain water to wash out excess bloom bizz from the soil is also not going to harm the plants, particularly at this point where you have maybe a month to go. Maybe flush with 10L of plain water for each pot, then you don't need to water very much at all until harvest.

 

[Ups]

@Emeraldo

Ok great thoughts. I would have thought transplanting at this stage would be a bad idea.
I’ll keep a close eye on them and if I get a chance I’ll try to transplant the little one. Flushing has to be done with the correct pH right?

 

[Ups]

@Emeraldo

So if I understand correctly, you believe that the plants are locked out and the solution is to flush them to get out the excess in the soil?
I’m pretty disappointed in the bio bizz fertilizers. I read so many good things and then after buying them I get only negative responses from people about them.

Here are some more photos of their progress at the end of the 4th week. The close ups are of the biggest buds I’ve got for the moment to give some idea of the rate that they’re growing. I’m hoping they’ll fatten up a lot more by the end of the 7th week or so cause they’re looking pretty measly for the moment to me. But hey, I’m still a noob, and I definitely outdid myself trying to grow these 3 at once and letting them get so big before flipping to flower

 

[Roy Growin]

Hi Ups - are you adding the Gro for K as it looks like a K def to me too
An enzyme product also helps as does Top and Root Juice occasionally for general plant health
Maybe try a shot of plain CaMg first and see what happens; do you use PK?
A tonic that also serves as a mini flush, if that is your concern, but I can't see that being the case only feeding every 3rd watering and you can't really overdo Bio unless you go crazy with it - I feed with almost every watering in coco
Plant looks great otherwise, good stuff

 

[ed the head]

Howdy @Ups ... nice to meet you, nice looking girls.

I'm no expert, only 1 year back into this wonderful endeavor. I've been seeing very similar issues in my Mars Auto and Photoperiod Mother tent, and went through many of the same attempts as suggested by my fellow forum members. (I think) What I eventually found was a pH imbalance. I feed by manufacturers guidelines at about 60% recommended dosage so I am pretty sure over or under nutrient was not the issue. By measuring my runoff pH, I found all my pots were dragging the pH of the runoff water down a full point or more. This meant the nutrient water I balanced to 6.3 on input came out 5.1 or lower at the runoff. I read that Cal Mag can't be took up below 6.2, and attributed discoloration, leaf curling and leaf browning all to a pH related nutrient in take problem.

To alleviate, affected pots have 2 teaspoons of lime added to the top of their soil bed if they are pulling the pH down more than a half a point. This works pretty well for my 3 gallon pots, for my 6 gallon pots I use 3 teaspoons. I also adjusted runoff water to 6.5 with pH UP.

It takes a couple to a few watering cycles to see improvement in the ladies but this has helped. Right now there are 3 affected girls like yours, the 2 younger ones are reacting very well so far. I have one in very late stage where it's hard to tell by the foliage. It's problem was yellowing and spotting. The lime pH therapy brought her green back and eased up her spots quite a bit. She then finally started producing trics and scent. Now to be honest, she's more yellow and spotty, but her buds continue to fill and tric over. So, she has me confused and worried. She's less than a week from 'due date' by the calendar and looks pretty close to the eye too.

So, I'm pretty sure my lax pH runoff monitoring ways got me and the girls into this bind. My routine now involves pH measuring and lime balancing at each watering.

As I said, I am no expert and the jury is still out in my grow Ed's Auto & Photoperiod Mother Tent as to whether or not pH imbalance was the root cause of my issues.

By the way, I've seen all grow medium I've used create this pulling pH down condition, with no appreciable difference between: Fox Farms Happy Frog; Fox Farms Ocean Forest; Dr. EArth Pot of Gold. My buddy at the plant nursery says it's because peat decays and brings the pH down.

 

[Emeraldo]

@Emeraldo

Ok great thoughts. I would have thought transplanting at this stage would be a bad idea.
I’ll keep a close eye on them and if I get a chance I’ll try to transplant the little one. Flushing has to be done with the correct pH right?

Transplanting is usually done before flowering, but you can still do it. I'd do it carefully not to disrupt the roots. I'd put her into a larger pot maybe 12L or 20L with more soil all around. Then the "flush" is a first good watering. I wouldn't add any bloom nutes at all to this fresh soil, just water.

Soil pH does tend to drop over the course of growing, becoming more acid as the salts accumulate. To preempt any soil pH issues you might have (as @ed the head mentioned) you might add a half cup of dolomite lime to the new soil. If it were my grow, I'd do that smaller plant first and see how she likes it. Water can be pH 6 to 7, not too high or too low, but it's not critical to pH the water.

As for the other two, I'd stop the bloom booster and just give them plain water. A top dressing of lime on the top of the soil might help the soil pH and adds magnesium, just work it in and water, with each watering it will reach the roots.

If you choose to do a regular flush, you would push a lot of water through -- at least as many L as the pot size. But if you stop the bloom boost and just give water, they may come around without any flushing.

The plants look good, though, I think you'll be fine.

 

[Emeraldo]

What I'm saying is (and @ed the head's experience seems to confirm this), over fertilizing leads to lower pH, and low pH leads to lockout. Using older soil that is already a bit acidic adds to the problem. Going easy on nutes is always a good rule to have. Dolomite lime is harmless and raises soil pH to 7 (neutral) but it will take time for lime to have that effect.

 

[ed the head]

What I'm saying is (and @ed the head's experience seems to confirm this), over fertilizing leads to lower pH, and low pH leads to lockout. Using older soil that is already a bit acidic adds to the problem. Going easy on nutes is always a good rule to have. Dolomite lime is harmless and raises soil pH to 7 (neutral) but it will take time for lime to have that effect.

I second that Emotion
The link in my post has all the grueling details but, in short, one stupid mistake NOT to make is reusing medium. This kicked off when I had the not so bright idea I could $ave a little ca$h be reusing FF soil on 3 new grows. MISTAKE!

I managed to save two, but one Wappa was a total loss.

I think I'm seeing why a lot of folks go to hydro

 

[Emeraldo]

Ed, I've used the same soil many times over, three years in a row, easy. I always added organic nutrients, fishbone meal, blood meal, alfalfa meal etc. and mike o'rizey. But in particular I would always add a cup of lime to keep pH stable between 6.5 and 7. Used soil is great, it's alive, it has micro-organisms. So I don't agree completely.