Brainstorming for new 8'x12' build

HiTimes4Me

HiTimes4Me

New Member
What's up everybody....decided to go ahead and build a bigger space...it's going to be 8x12 storage building... I need ideas on venting and soundproofing...I was thinking of using 5/8" plywood for exterior walls and insulation then another 5/8" interior wall... would this be insulated enough to help with heat flucuations in the summer? And sound dampening? As I have neighbors within about 50 feet...only 1 but still it only takes 1... I planned on using insulated ducting and building dampening boxes for my inlines out of 3/4" MDF board and line the inside with a leftover roll of dynamat... I'm thinking that would be enough to keep the sounds of the fans and ducting down but what would be the best way to vent it? I have 2 6" inlines, a 1k hps for flower and a 400w mh for veg both in aircooled hoods... Where would be the best, inconspicuous places to vent? I was thinking of pulling air from under the building so it will be cooler but...I'm worried about moisture...And I was thinking about venting through the roof with some kind of vent but then in the winter my neighbors might see the steam caused by hot grow room air hitting cold outside air...I only need to vent the lighting because I will be using CO2 in the flower room... and when the flower room gets too hot I planned on having a back flow y inline before the light so I could open it up manually if it ever got too hot....I will be using a DIY 16 cu. ft. deep freezer cooling system by placing a large tote full of water and anti freeze into it and using a pump and fan hooked to a thermostat to turn it on and off. The pump will pump the cooling solution through a heat exchanger and the fan will blow through the exchange...so basically converting the deep freezer to water cooling and back to air cooling because it will be cheaper then running a/c...plus odors can escape through a/c...in theory it seems sound...I planned on sectioning it off to 5x5 for flower room until I get my 2nd 1kw then using 4x8...for veg I have a tent that I will use to keep mothers and clones in... I planned on having the 400w connected to the 1000w with a 6" inline inbetween the two and then another 6" on the other side of the 1000w... I will be scrubbing the room with a carbon filter as well to cut down on odors...And it will be sealed as much as possible, not to the extreme to where I have a vacuum lock space to change and suit up into a bee suit or anything lol just enough to keep co2 in...Well that about sums it up...But I need advice/tips tricks on it thanks my green brothers :thumb::Namaste:
 
Hate to say it, but I agree. Storage sheds are not very good grow roos at all when you need to be clandestine. A bunker under the shed is the way to go. You will have so many obstacles and problems that you will shut it down after a crop or two, if your neighbors don't catch on first, demanding money or turning you in. I know these things from experience, and HIGHLY advise you to rethink this route. And the cooler, they can be used to chill water, but as jake stated, adding hot air to the equation will end up burning it up they aren't meant to run more than a few MINUTES during the day, and in this case it will never shut off......


Just my 2 cents, but believe me, and attic, basement, closet, extra bedroom etc. are much better choices. If you do decide to go this route, run exhaust and fresh air from under the building, double layer FLIR shield EVERYTHING, and double up carbon scrubbers...

GT
 
build another room inside the shed.Easier to controle enviroment in a more confined area.Build grow cabinet inside of room.Use exaust to help heat room in winter,ac a must during summer.
 
Spring and summer you could exauste heat into shed.shed should be vented also,through ridge and eave vents.Vented properly you can keep temps from reaching to high.
 
Actually I'm in the country...its just the one neighbor diagonal to my house...im using a spare bedroom now but I need to get the grow out of the house because I will be needing it fairly soon...i thought about the bunker under the shed idea but that is a lot of money because you would need concrete poured and etc. To keep it from caving in and then when it rains you have to have a sump to pump out from around it etc... I have a 6' privacy fence between my neighbor and I. And the storage shed would be about 100ft from the neighbor... And I understand what your saying about the freezer but the cooling solution would be below 0 and I figured if I had a big enough res. For it then it would serve as a buffer so the freezer wouldn't have to work as hard
 
Also I was thinking about putting a clothes dryer out there so the neighbors could see me take laundry out there and that would explain the vents
 
Hot HUMID air into cold air makes steam, if you are just using ambient (outside air) through the lights and back outside, there will be no steam. Steam will happen when you vent the humid room air outside into the cold. Only 4" of insulation is lame everywhere in the country. Insulation will hold heat in more than keep it out. A chiller for cool boxes is a good idea, but I don't think a freezer is the correct unit to use for that.
 
The best and QUIETEST fan you can buy is a Panasonic Whisperline...hands down the quietest. The 340 cfm model will offer plenty of cooling power. You could always bump to the next size up which has 8 inch intake and exhaust so you would have to buy some reducers. It you go with that fan, mount it so that the intake/exhaust are parallel to the ground to protect the bearings.

If you are planning on using a carbon scrubber, you will need a passive intake to draw air into the room because you be expelling air. That poses a problem if it is really hot outside because it you are running an ac, you will be taking out the cool air.. For steam protection, I would vent the air under the building and let it dissipate before it creates steam that is visible to your neighbors. Just don't pull air from the bottom because you will most likely be pulling in hot air that is exhausted unless the intake/exhaust are on opposite sides and far enough from each other so that isn't a problem, and there needs to be plenty of fresh air entering under the building. You will need an a/c during the summer if it is too hot. IMHO, as long as the temps stay below 75 degrees outside, you can use a passive intake and and a carbon scrubber to keep the grow room close to the outside temperature as well as the RH. I know that folks have differing opinions on the Gas Lantern Routine, but it works, and will help with heat in the summer if you plan on vegging. You can have a CFL kick on during the dark period for an hour to keep the plants in veg. that will create less heat. Try to run your lights only at night once the temps start to drop and have them shut off no later that 9 or 10 am in the morning. If they come on at 10 pm, the outside air will be much cooler and mornings are usually kinda cool until 9am or so. using a passive intake and carbon scrubber when the outside temps are in the 60's will most likely keep your room in the low 80's at most when running a single 1K
 
Thanks everybody for helping...i planned on walling off the part to use for a flowering room could I just use a window ac in that wall and let the ac exhaust into the rest of the building?
 
Saw a DIY on this somewhere.... Use the evap coils from a 24000 BTU window unit. Basically, mount the window unit in the wall to get the condenser coils outside and yank the face off the front, and run all the lights together into one output to which you fashion a DIY interchange around the evap coils using a Rubbermaid tub to cool the exhaust from the lights. -->One big ass can filter ON THE FLOOR to help remove some of the odor, -->ducting to all the lights in parallel, -->with a fan after the lights, -->and then the chiller. This way is COMPLETELY sealed, and no exhaust to the outside needed. Just be sure to move the thermostat OUTSIDE of the unit and mount it on the wall at plant level. This way it runs to cool the room and not just run constantly cooling exhaust, which could make it too cold for the room. Also the can being on the floor will draw cool air from the lower level under the lights to help cool them as it blows through the hoods. Also, be sure to get a can rated with sufficient CFM airflow of the A/C and Exhaust fan so as not to have "Blowby". Hell if you seal the exchange right, you might not need to put an inline fan in the duct work at all

If I remember correctly it worked very well until the breaker tripped, and he lost power and then everything inside fried being in the sun. He probably had more on that circuit than the A/C though. I would still say that a shed in the sun is a bad idea, but it can be done with some planning, although, I wouldn't advise it.

Just to let you know, 24000 BTU's inside a home is used to cool 1000-1500 sq. ft. The best part about A/C that size, is that most of them have a DEHUMIDIFIER built in. So that will help keep condensation from transpiration and heat interchange in control.

Now here's the bad part. Those run EASILY between 12 to 15 amps so lots of power draw, and you'd probably have to install a new breaker and bury a heavy gauge line just for the A/C COMPLETELY separate from all other power to the shed. Add to that the fact that running in the middle of summer, even over-sized, so it will not run constantly, but still will be a pretty penny because most that size run 2000 to 2800 watts.

The plus side to this is that you could chill purps IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER to 55 at night and get a nice deep purple for bag appeal. If you're supplying a collective or co-op, that would be a massive plus to your grow operation. This would simply be due to the decline of any purples having more than just a hint of purple in the summer because the nights don't get cold enough.


So there you are. The Pros and Cons to recirc cooling for a sealed room. Outside no less.........Weigh your desires with the risk and decide if it's worth the risk and work to keep things cool inside.
 
Now for the rest of the room. Pier and beam foundation, 8" walls R14 or R18 insulation for floor and walls, (R22 or R25 for ceiling). 5/8" sheet flooring, sealed, poured Lite-Crete sound dampening floor substrate (NOT Lightcrete insulating roof concrete) poured to 4" - 6" thick for the floor, and covered with as white as you can get linoleum for easy cleaning and reflective optics. Alternatively, you can add 2lb playsand to 5Gal Bright White Base Exterior paint and roll it on the floor. The playsand will add texture to the otherwise slick-when-wet paint for better traction (will need re-painting after a while depending on foot traffic). 3/4" drywall, taped, floated, sanded and covered with latex paint on the inside walls and ceiling in bright white, for ease of cleaning and optics.

12" to 18" trussed flat hip roof, lite-crete 2" - 4", painted with WHITE roofer's paint to reflect as much sun back up as possible. Whatever design work you desire for aesthetics, then BRIGHT WHITE/Heat Reflective paint on all exterior walls.


This should get you pretty well insulated from heat and from sound.
 
Here is a visual of my suggestion working in a shed. What I have here is an 8x12 with 6" insulted walls and overhead. Cover interior with Reflectix material as well. In the picture are 2 4'x4' chambers. One for flower and one for veg. 4" vent on top of each chamber for a 4" vent line and carbon filter from each space, running on a 6" minimum inline fan. You will also notice a 6" hole for exhausting light hoods in series. Each space also has a passive vent near floor.

You would then control the environment within the shed and operate the chambers within that environment. I have ext. door placed on end wall and chamber on other wall. That way if you open the door it does not expose anything other than a blank wall which can be camo'd. I would pull intake into the space from like the rear, and exhaust the shed underneath. This will draw critters in the winter looking for a warm place to hole up. Make sure you rodent seal everything. This is by no means a complete idea, just a starting point with a visual reference for conversation.

This idea will allow 1.5' of clearance around the interior build for service and duct installs and such. That little extra space one could put some yard tools out there and make it look like it is being used as intended.

Just a quickie hope it helps somehow.

8x12.png
 
SmokzAlot said:
Here is a visual of my suggestion working in a shed. What I have here is an 8x12 with 6" insulted walls and overhead. Cover interior with Reflectix material as well. In the picture are 2 4'x4' chambers. One for flower and one for veg. 4" vent on top of each chamber for a 4" vent line and carbon filter from each space, running on a 6" minimum inline fan. You will also notice a 6" hole for exhausting light hoods in series. Each space also has a passive vent near floor.

You would then control the environment within the shed and operate the chambers within that environment. I have ext. door placed on end wall and chamber on other wall. That way if you open the door it does not expose anything other than a blank wall which can be camo'd. I would pull intake into the space from like the rear, and exhaust the shed underneath. This will draw critters in the winter looking for a warm place to hole up. Make sure you rodent seal everything. This is by no means a complete idea, just a starting point with a visual reference for conversation.

This idea will allow 1.5' of clearance around the interior build for service and duct installs and such. That little extra space one could put some yard tools out there and make it look like it is being used as intended.

Just a quickie hope it helps somehow.

8x12.png
Click to expand...

You'd need pocket, or sliding door, or make exterior door open out for that setup, as there's no room to open in. Rollup doors, accordion fold, panda film barrier, or tent style doors for the interior chamber would allow access to grow spaces, as rigid doors will not have swing clearance inside. 1'6" is a tight squeeze, but at least you'd be able to do it.
 
jakester said:
Oh now I get what you're trying to do with the Refrigerator...

Yes you're going to need a chiller if you're going to use hydroponics...
IMO if you're going soil, you really don't need a chiller and the refrigerator's compressor will not cool that shed enough so you won't need to use an A/C in the summer...

The compressors/evaps/condensers are only rated to produce so much BTU of cooling and matched up according to their rating of course..

So lets say you buy a brand new 24,000 BTU A/C, first off, you're NOT getting 24K, that's what the compressor/evap/condenser is rated, you loose 25% when you transfer heat from air to air... A water to air transfer of heat is a lot more efficient way, but there is still loss (eg. Hydro Innovations system), the best would be the water cooled hoods which eliminates the need for air movement..

BUT, point being, you're only going to get 24K of BTU out of that unit..
NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO OR HOW YOU TRANSFER THE HEAT..
It can only produce 24K BTU of cooling..


Now a refrigerator's compressor does not really need to be that large..
All it has to cool is maybe 36' sq. total at the largest... So there is NO WAY it's going to cool that shed, no matter what you do to that refrigerator's compressor/evap/condenser to transfer the heat...


IMHO the refrigerator is a waste of time, effort, and conversion money to cool that shed...


I really believe you're over thinking this project...

Again, using one of them pre-fab wooden sheds as an example....
Run a cold water line out to it..
Run 6/3 wire to a breaker panel in the shed, that will give you about 50-55 amp..
Run all the wire through the studs in the shed where you want your plug outlets..
Run rolled isolation between the studs and dry walled it all in...
Then just put up "Panda plastic" to cut up the chambers..

The A/C I would suggest at least a 36-24K A/C (which 99% of them are 220v), and the wall install too of course.. But I do not know what area of the country you're in because maybe a 12-18K unit would be fine in the north, but not in the southern states...

If you're going hydro, then yes that refrigerator will now become useful to chill down your reservoir, and to make things simple, I'd personally just clean and hang the evap right in the reservoir.. You can use something like a CAP-TMP1 to control the reservoir's temperature and cycling of the old refrigerator compressor...


Also, the lamp's heat being vented directly into cold air (32°F) will create a noticable vapor trail, even dry heated air.. Not "steam" more or less, but you will see that there is some kind of heat coming out the roof vent...



Like I said, I would not suggest growing in a shed, but if you have too, then you have too..
But don't hurt yourself over thinking this thing... LOL


K.I.S.S!!!
Ya know what I mean???


:peace:




:Namaste:
Click to expand...


Okay... I was giving a cooling solution that was NOT vented outside, and I said nothing about a refrigerator. a 24000 BTU unit is used to cool the room, but air FIRST passes from the lamps, through evaps, and out into the room. No need to blow air out of the shed, and a 24000 would do the job well. Where did you get anything about a refrigerator in what I said. I know He stated he had a fridge in his first post, but that was him, and I said nothing about a fridge. I think you're confused. And what were you saying about only 24000BTU... that's all he'd need. Where did you get air-air transfer of heat and a 25% loss of efficiency? It's a window unit, pulling air over the lights and out into the room.......... Where's the air-air transfer you're talking about? And I didn't say anything about it chilling a reservoir. I'm talking about keeping the interior of the shed cool and quiet. Maybe it was the word "chiller" that did it, but that was referring to the A/C unit for cooling air.

I said nothing about using the refrigerator at all in anything I posted, and I know that the fridge will not cool the space provided especially in the summer, not really in the winter either. I think your post is confusing, could you please re read my post and then clarify before trying to rip it apart?? I'm not over complicating anything, I offered an all-in-one cooling solution he could use with one air handler to pass cool air over the lights and cool the room without venting ANYTHING to the outside, so that gives no rise to attention to a constant vapor blowing out of the shed in the winter.



I stressed my concern as well about him using a shed, but if he had to, this solution offers a simple way to keep things cool and sealed with no vent.
I didn't hurt myself over thinking this thing... LOL


It's about as K.I.S.S. as can be!!!
I don't know what you mean...


:peace:




:Namaste:
 
I asked almost everyone here to come advise me....as I hold all of you in high regards and I really appreciate the help
 
Okay, I saw his post quoting me, and somehow I'm supposed to know that he wasn't replying to me even though he was also talking about a 24000 BTU A/C window unit.
(Click the arrow by his name to see the original reply with a snipit quoting me at the top of his reply)
jakester said:
So lets say you buy a brand new 24,000 BTU A/C, first off, you're NOT getting 24K, that's what the compressor/evap/condenser is rated, you loose 25% when you transfer heat from air to air... A water to air transfer of heat is a lot more efficient way, but there is still loss (eg. Hydro Innovations system), the best would be the water cooled hoods which eliminates the need for air movement..

BUT, point being, you're only going to get 24K of BTU out of that unit..
NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO OR HOW YOU TRANSFER THE HEAT..
It can only produce 24K BTU of cooling..
Click to expand...

If he wasn't replying to me, then quoting me in his reply really threw me off.

But, I apologize for my part in this.
 

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