Borg or not?

[Opih8]

Hi, back again.
If this were Borg surely to fuck I would be able to see them by now ? 2 +half weeks since first dots and still no webs or scurrying little motherfuckers on any of leaves (damn near all leaves are affected now)! Is it possible I’ve od’d them with neem and subsequent 30degree growroom temp coz we’re only 4 weeks when I started spraying with neem- every day or 2 for a week

 

[Sueet]

Well, firstly, no ... you wouldn't necessarily see them. However, I don't think you have spider mites, the damage is completely different with mites, it leaves tiny white pinprick spots all over the leaves. Your spots are much larger and somewhat randomly spaced, I don't really recognize the problem, but I'm pretty sure it isn't spider mites.

 

[Opih8]

K cheers anyway Sueet , been total headfuck (one way or another) with all f**kin plants this year dude ! Happy trails 2 u

 

[SmokingWings]

2 +half weeks since first dots and still no webs or......

At this point I am thinking it is a problem with Thrips and not Spider Mites.

If it is a Spider Mite problem then there is a good chance you will not see webs for a month or more. Most of the time I know a Mite problem is returning when I notice the small scars on the leaves. Waiting for signs of webbing before admitting there is a problem has led to me loosing a plant or two. Mites also have to grow for awhile before they become large enough to be seen without a microscope.

Similar questions with photos of leaves looking like yours are looking have been posted before. Many times after the grower eliminates Spider Mites as the cause the grower ends up finding Thrips. Similar looking damage, especially when first starting except the scars on the leaves caused by Thrips are larger than the scar from Mites.

Thirps grow larger and become easier to spot. A very common problem on Marijuana leaves so there are some very good photos of what the insects look like if a google or search engine search is set to include 'images'.

 

[Roy Growin]

Agree with the above ^^
Sounds like you are putting up some defence though, so good luck Amigo

 

[garybo]

@Opih8 ,welcome to the forum, your problem has gotten the attention of some really smart growers and their opinion is normally right on. Now the ball's in your court to rid your plants of that problem.
Am I understanding that you have used neem and it hasn't helped?
Be safe.

 

[SmokingWings]

I started spraying with neem- every day or 2 for a week

Everything I have read about using Neem Oil for controlling Mites or Thrips mentions that the most successful way to do it means spraying once a day for 3 days minimum. After 3 days then the grower can start to spray every other day. When the grower says "every day or 2" then there is a good chance they are admitting that they might have lost track which is something many of us find easy to do. But, if you or any other grower misses one of the first 3 days it is hard to make up for it so the best thing is to start over spraying once a day for at least 3 days.

I admit that most of my use of Neem Oil is for Spider Mite control but the same schedule should work well for those Thrips. Several minutes ago I did a quick google search on Thrips and did come across a tidbit of info where a gardening article mentioned that a soap spray can kill Thrips. That got me thinking that it might help to increase the amount of soap that is added to the oil spray might really help in getting rid of some of the insects.

 

[Opih8]

@Opih8 ,welcome to the forum, your problem has gotten the attention of some really smart growers and their opinion is normally right on. Now the ball's in your court to rid your plants of that problem.
Am I understanding that you have used neem and it hasn't helped?
Be safe.

Thanks to all , I really appreciate all the input

 

[Opih8]

Thanks to all , I really appreciate all the input

No dude, it hasn’t helped at all ! Have big plant outside that had similar problem but saw whiteflies everywhere. I drenched that mother with neem solution and also hosed her every couple days during Scottish summer - in the end it was combo of all the above and hanging sticky yellow butterfly traps that controlled them (after killing half of her).
I’ve never had any problems in the last couple decades but have read up on all the big shit -just in case of…. Everywhere I looked I saw that the answer to most pests was Neem oil , allegedly! Finally after 30 years or so I have got to use it and it ends up doing fucking nothing ! @headfuck . It seems that every article I read it starts to get more regimated how u have to use neem, whereas when I first read about neem oil it was ‘ spray with neem and wham bam thank u ma’am no more pesky pests’ - simples !
Q1 do thrips/ borg stay on one plant or , if there is bigger plant right next to them would they not migrate over ? ( the Turk or Hindu Kush in photo was next to the 2 autos with problems for couple weeks and it has been absolutely fine !
Q2 Couldexcessive heat and humidity possibly be the problem ?
Q3 Can I have a % time to neem plants and I’ll start over
Q4 Can they take another round of neem chemo ???
Here’s pic of the Turkish or whatever and couple of the 2 autos 2day . Cheers
Ps. Would I be just as well chucking the one on the right as it looks pretty fukd ? Ta

 

[Opih8]

Agree with the above ^^
Sounds like you are putting up some defence though, so good luck Amigo

I can but fuckin try dude , ta

 

[013]

How you spray is just as important as what you spray….

if possible -elevate your plant onto a table or counter top. Mix your soup then adjust sprayer to the finest spray mist possible, keep shaking the spray bottle as you go. Always go up her skirt FIRST and coat leaf undersides, stalks & stems. Then for the final pass spray from top down on the outside portion of her canopy.

critters like to hide, feed, mate and attach eggs to leaf undersides…

welcome aboard!

 

[Opih8]

How you spray is just as important as what you spray….

if possible -elevate your plant onto a table or counter top. Mix your soup then adjust sprayer to the finest spray mist possible, keep shaking the spray bottle as you go. Always go up her skirt FIRST and coat leaf undersides, stalks & stems. Then for the final pass spray from top down on the outside portion of her canopy.

critters like to hide, feed, mate and attach eggs to leaf undersides…

welcome aboard!

Cheers dude, what’s the best time to spray ? Lights out ?

 

[SmokingWings]

Cheers dude, what’s the best time to spray ? Lights out ?

Probably best after the lights go off or just before they go on. My thought on that is that once it is dark the Mites and other insects would be moving around more since the darkness makes it harder for predators to see them.

Q1 do thrips/ borg stay on one plant or , if there is bigger plant right next to them would they not migrate over ?

I go along with that. Doubt that the size of the plant would make any difference. Some of them will just go to wherever they find food.

Q4 Can they take another round of neem chemo ???

I have sprayed 4 times over a 3 day period and then skipped a day. Then sprayed once a day for 3 days after that one day break. The plants did not show any damage.

Everywhere I looked I saw that the answer to most pests was Neem oil , allegedly!

Yes, I have would read the same thing over the years. Then I noticed that many of the people who were saying that the answer was Neem Oil did not mention any sort of spraying schedule or why to have a schedule. In other words they had read about it and just mention the Neem Oil part and not take the time to bring up how often to do the spraying. Nor mention that the plant has to be sprayed top to bottom and the tops and undersides of all the leaves.

A thank you to @013 for bringing these spraying points up every time he mentions the spraying programs.

 

[Opih8]

Probably best after the lights go off or just before they go on. My thought on that is that once it is dark the Mites and other insects would be moving around more since the darkness makes it harder for predators to see them.


I go along with that. Doubt that the size of the plant would make any difference. Some of them will just go to wherever they find food.


I have sprayed 4 times over a 3 day period and then skipped a day. Then sprayed once a day for 3 days after that one day break. The plants did not show any damage.


Yes, I have would read the same thing over the years. Then I noticed that many of the people who were saying that the answer was Neem Oil did not mention any sort of spraying schedule or why to have a schedule. In other words they had read about it and just mention the Neem Oil part and not take the time to bring up how often to do the spraying. Nor mention that the plant has to be sprayed top to bottom and the tops and undersides of all the leaves.

A thank you to @013 for bringing these spraying points up every time he mentions the spraying programs.

Probably best after the lights go off or just before they go on. My thought on that is that once it is dark the Mites and other insects would be moving around more since the darkness makes it harder for predators to see them.


I go along with that. Doubt that the size of the plant would make any difference. Some of them will just go to wherever they find food.


I have sprayed 4 times over a 3 day period and then skipped a day. Then sprayed once a day for 3 days after that one day break. The plants did not show any damage.


Yes, I have would read the same thing over the years. Then I noticed that many of the people who were saying that the answer was Neem Oil did not mention any sort of spraying schedule or why to have a schedule. In other words they had read about it and just mention the Neem Oil part and not take the time to bring up how often to do the spraying. Nor mention that the plant has to be sprayed top to bottom and the tops and undersides of all the leaves.

A thank you to @013 for bringing these spraying points up every time he mentions the spraying programs.

Probably best after the lights go off or just before they go on. My thought on that is that once it is dark the Mites and other insects would be moving around more since the darkness makes it harder for predators to see them.


I go along with that. Doubt that the size of the plant would make any difference. Some of them will just go to wherever they find food.


I have sprayed 4 times over a 3 day period and then skipped a day. Then sprayed once a day for 3 days after that one day break. The plants did not show any damage.


Yes, I have would read the same thing over the years. Then I noticed that many of the people who were saying that the answer was Neem Oil did not mention any sort of spraying schedule or why to have a schedule. In other words they had read about it and just mention the Neem Oil part and not take the time to bring up how often to do the spraying. Nor mention that the plant has to be sprayed top to bottom and the tops and undersides of all the leaves.

A thank you to @013 for bringing these spraying points up every time he mentions the spraying programs.

Cheers dude,

Ta, reason for Q1 was that, though the damage is on the 2 smaller autos it isn’t on the big kush at all !! Secondly I have defo read (on one of these forum platforms) that over neeming leaves coats them with oil which ,if light source is hot can burn holes in leaf + make tips look burnt - that’s why I keep asking bout it mate . Well that and total fuckin denial !!

 

[013]

insect sprays are treatment - most effective when foliage is wet, once it dries it’s generally considered as no longer effective

soil drenches are systemic / taken up thru roots and have a preventative effect by making plant biomass inhospitable to critters for food or shelter

look for chem sprays in your area or your fave online retailer containing potassium salts of fatty acid, thats comparable to Safers Soap widely used here in USA.

leaf tip burn is generally considered as slight nutrient burn.

Keep up the fight - pint sized pests are the bane of cannabis gardeners

 

[Opih8]

Ta, reason for Q1 was that, though the damage is on the 2 smaller autos it isn’t on the big kush at all !! Secondly I have defo read (on one of these forum platforms) that over neeming leaves coats them with oil which ,if light source is hot can burn holes in leaf + make tips look burnt - that’s why I keep asking bout it mate . Well that and total fuckin denial !

insect sprays are treatment - most effective when foliage is wet, once it dries it’s generally considered as no longer effective

soil drenches are systemic / taken up thru roots and have a preventative effect by making plant biomass inhospitable to critters for food or shelter

look for chem sprays in your area or your fave online retailer containing potassium salts of fatty acid, thats comparable to Safers Soap widely used here in USA.

leaf tip burn is generally considered as slight nutrient burn.

Keep up the fight - pint sized pests are the bane of cannabis gardeners

Cheers man, I was under the impression that putting soap in with the neem oil was in order to make it adhere to the leaves and therefore coat them so that it was effective against or as a deterrent to pests - the downside being that the fact that ur coating ur leaves in ‘oil’ makes them susceptible (especially if u drench the mothers like me) to sunspots ,as appeared to be the case with my Lazarus plant outside, when it gets too hot for them . BTW I am aware that I’m a bathing Egyptian ( in denial ) ! But …..

 

[Opih8]

Cheers man, I was under the impression that putting soap in with the neem oil was in order to make it adhere to the leaves and therefore coat them so that it was effective against or as a deterrent to pests - the downside being that the fact that ur coating ur leaves in ‘oil’ makes them susceptible (especially if u drench the mothers like me) to sunspots ,as appeared to be the case with my Lazarus plant outside, when it gets too hot for them . BTW I am aware that I’m a bathing Egyptian ( in denial ) ! But ….. I could totally see the logic in it !!

 

[SmokingWings]

Ta, reason for Q1 was that, though the damage is on the 2 smaller autos it isn’t on the big kush at all !!

Some strains are better able to repel insects or mildews & molds than others. Not just Marijuana strains but vegetables, fruits and flowers. While Marijuana seed breeders do mention this point it is especially noticeable when selecting seeds for other plants. Also, insects will attack weaker leaves and stems on plants first and will attack plants that are weaker overall before moving onto the stronger or healthier plant next to the weak one. That could be part of the reason you see the problem on the 2 smaller ones and not on the big one.

I was under the impression that putting soap in with the neem oil was in order to make it adhere to the leaves and therefore coat them so that it was effective against or as a deterrent to pests -

Yes. Putting the Neem Oil in water is like putting Olive Oil into vinegar for a salad dressing. The oil separates and forms a layer on top of the oil. The couple of drops of soap change the surface tension and the oil can blend into the water. Using the Mites as the example the spray mix has a better blending of the Neem and water and every droplet has some Neem in it. The Need is a contact insecticide for the MItes and the Mite absorbs it where the stuff destroys its digestive system. Without the soap there would be droplets that have Neem and many that do not. The Neem Oil on the leaf does not seem to have an effect on the MItes. They have to have contact with the stuff for it to really work.

Some people have reported good luck when they have watered their plants with Neem Oil and water mix. It is absorbed by the roots and moved up to the leaves. No clue whether it repels the insect or if it poisons them.

Neem Oil is not supposed to kill the Mite eggs. It takes about 3 days for a Mite to mature after hatching at which time it can start laying eggs. That is why so many recommendations to do a 3 day spraying routine as a way to start to break the reproduction cycle.

 

[Opih8]

Some strains are better able to repel insects or mildews & molds than others. Not just Marijuana strains but vegetables, fruits and flowers. While Marijuana seed breeders do mention this point it is especially noticeable when selecting seeds for other plants. Also, insects will attack weaker leaves and stems on plants first and will attack plants that are weaker overall before moving onto the stronger or healthier plant next to the weak one. That could be part of the reason you see the problem on the 2 smaller ones and not on the big one.

Yes. Putting the Neem Oil in water is like putting Olive Oil into vinegar for a salad dressing. The oil separates and forms a layer on top of the oil. The couple of drops of soap change the surface tension and the oil can blend into the water. Using the Mites as the example the spray mix has a better blending of the Neem and water and every droplet has some Neem in it. The Need is a contact insecticide for the MItes and the Mite absorbs it where the stuff destroys its digestive system. Without the soap there would be droplets that have Neem and many that do not. The Neem Oil on the leaf does not seem to have an effect on the MItes. They have to have contact with the stuff for it to really work.

Some people have reported good luck when they have watered their plants with Neem Oil and water mix. It is absorbed by the roots and moved up to the leaves. No clue whether it repels the insect or if it poisons them.

Neem Oil is not supposed to kill the Mite eggs. It takes about 3 days for a Mite to mature after hatching at which time it can start laying eggs. That is why so many recommendations to do a 3 day spraying routine as a way to start to break the reproduction cycle.

Thanks for taking the time to actually clarify matters a bit mate . Appreciated. As I’ve mentioned I have been incredibly lucky in all the time I’ve done this shit - from dusty attics to dirty dusty attics to cupboards and back again- so I’ve never really needed to know much ‘in-depth’ stuff excepting ph (coz it bounces about crazily here !) .. Anyway, - isopropyl ! Is it as suicidal an idea as a Borg +egg contact killer as it sounds ??

 

[Opih8]

Thanks for taking the time to actually clarify matters a bit mate . Appreciated. As I’ve mentioned I have been incredibly lucky in all the time I’ve done this shit - from dusty attics to dirty dusty attics to cupboards and back again- so I’ve never really needed to know much ‘in-depth’ stuff excepting ph (coz it bounces about crazily here !) .. Anyway, - isopropyl ! Is it as suicidal an idea as a Borg +egg contact killer as it sounds ?? I did start neeming them again 2 nights ago just after lights out anyway