Attic Issue's
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IndoorHaze
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Insulate?
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- #3
HiTimes4Me
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Did you make the panda as air tight as possible so the cold air doesn't escape? Or are you just trying to cool the whole attic with the ac and not blowing directly into your growspace? Sounds like you have the ac outside the grow space and its too small for the whole attic...its working HARD
Is the attic insulated in the traditional way - meaning, insulation in the floor with the walls/roof uninsulated?
How much of that is because of the climate combined with the sun shining all day on a (possibly) darkish roof which might be absorbing heat, and how much is because of your light(s)?
The lights... Sealed fixtures, adequate airflow - and remember that as the temperature of the source air rises, you need to flow a LOT more of it. Insulate the duct runs, at minimum with some sort of flexible duct-wrap. Better to go with "type B gas vent" rigid, it's double-walled meaning you've got a dead-air space (and insulate the entire thing anyway as if it was just cheap flexible duct). They sell "insulated" reflector covers, too, which I don't often see in journals but they're worth a few percent. If using multiple lights, try using multiple fans/duct-runs (IOW, if heat is an issue, don't daisy-chain several lights together where you're trying to cool each with the heated exhaust air from the previous (set of) light(s)).
Cool (ventilate) the lights separately from the general garden space.
Find a way to use the waste heat from your grow. Right now you're spending money to remove something you're not using, which sucks. But if you can turn it into a useful thing, that offsets at least some of the expense of dealing with it. For example, if that heat is running through an air-to-water heat exchanger which is either preheating or entirely heating your home's hot water supply and that's saving you $45 a month, well... Possibly you have a swimming pool and wish you could spend less on the pool-heater?
There are water-cooled light setups. Fresca Sol and... one I cannot remember the name of. A proper (meaning correctly assembled so that it doesn't leak, air purged from system, quality pump, adequately-sized reservoir, a water/flow sensor that shuts down the light in case of problem, et cetera) might be a viable solution for your setup. Especially if you are able to combine it with one of the above ideas (the reservoirs don't have to be all that big, large enough to absorb the light's heat output without its own temperature rising beyond the temperature that you've chosen for your rooms/light's target... assuming that the water in that reservoir has time and conditions allowing it to cool off during the lights-off period) - an average-sized swimming pool would probably make a great reservoir since it's so huge. But that depends on the nominal temperature that you intend to keep the pool at, of course. The colder your water is, the better your cooling is.
I do NOT recommend a "run-to-waste" setup on water-cooling, especially if you're using municipal water and are sending it down your sewer. If you are taking your cooling water from a stream, pond, lake, or river then RtW is feasible, but you need to make sure you're properly filtering the water before it enters your system (cleaner water is less likely to attenuate or block your light, and it is also better for the system - although an anti-algae additive is probably recommended) and make sure not to dump it directly back into the source because the environment probably doesn't like the water to be heated.
I seem to remember that one of the water-cooling companies has things for cooling more than just the lights. Maybe it was a heat-exchanger that you could attach a fan to for cooling the air in the GR itself, I'm not sure.
Other things: Add more (or more efficient) insulation between the attic and the home below, since heat rises and every home produces it. Create a "sub-roof" and install both a ridge-vent and soffit vents so that natural convection gives airflow (and heat-removal) where the highest temperatures are (just below the surface of the roof) while also helping to keep that heat separate from the rest of the attic. Paint the surface of your roof white. Yes, seriously, lol. A quality roof-coating applied correctly can do wonders. It may not be pretty (at least in your eyes) but life's like that. In the event that you have other heat-producing items in your attic - such as an air-conditioning unit or water-heater, get them out of there.
When it's August and all that has failed miserably (lol), carry your plants down to the basement. Even if it's damp, you'll probably have less money/hassle at least in the long-term sense making your basement dry (especially if you don't mind picking up a shovel and digging down to your foundation all the way around your house so you can get at the exterior of your basement walls) then you would in creating a permanent cooling (and heating in the winter) solution for your attic. Not to mention (but I will) that security - that is, ensuring against detectability - tends to be about two orders of magnitude easier in your basement than in your attic.
How much of that is because of the climate combined with the sun shining all day on a (possibly) darkish roof which might be absorbing heat, and how much is because of your light(s)?
The lights... Sealed fixtures, adequate airflow - and remember that as the temperature of the source air rises, you need to flow a LOT more of it. Insulate the duct runs, at minimum with some sort of flexible duct-wrap. Better to go with "type B gas vent" rigid, it's double-walled meaning you've got a dead-air space (and insulate the entire thing anyway as if it was just cheap flexible duct). They sell "insulated" reflector covers, too, which I don't often see in journals but they're worth a few percent. If using multiple lights, try using multiple fans/duct-runs (IOW, if heat is an issue, don't daisy-chain several lights together where you're trying to cool each with the heated exhaust air from the previous (set of) light(s)).
Cool (ventilate) the lights separately from the general garden space.
Find a way to use the waste heat from your grow. Right now you're spending money to remove something you're not using, which sucks. But if you can turn it into a useful thing, that offsets at least some of the expense of dealing with it. For example, if that heat is running through an air-to-water heat exchanger which is either preheating or entirely heating your home's hot water supply and that's saving you $45 a month, well... Possibly you have a swimming pool and wish you could spend less on the pool-heater?
There are water-cooled light setups. Fresca Sol and... one I cannot remember the name of. A proper (meaning correctly assembled so that it doesn't leak, air purged from system, quality pump, adequately-sized reservoir, a water/flow sensor that shuts down the light in case of problem, et cetera) might be a viable solution for your setup. Especially if you are able to combine it with one of the above ideas (the reservoirs don't have to be all that big, large enough to absorb the light's heat output without its own temperature rising beyond the temperature that you've chosen for your rooms/light's target... assuming that the water in that reservoir has time and conditions allowing it to cool off during the lights-off period) - an average-sized swimming pool would probably make a great reservoir since it's so huge. But that depends on the nominal temperature that you intend to keep the pool at, of course. The colder your water is, the better your cooling is.
I do NOT recommend a "run-to-waste" setup on water-cooling, especially if you're using municipal water and are sending it down your sewer. If you are taking your cooling water from a stream, pond, lake, or river then RtW is feasible, but you need to make sure you're properly filtering the water before it enters your system (cleaner water is less likely to attenuate or block your light, and it is also better for the system - although an anti-algae additive is probably recommended) and make sure not to dump it directly back into the source because the environment probably doesn't like the water to be heated.
I seem to remember that one of the water-cooling companies has things for cooling more than just the lights. Maybe it was a heat-exchanger that you could attach a fan to for cooling the air in the GR itself, I'm not sure.
Other things: Add more (or more efficient) insulation between the attic and the home below, since heat rises and every home produces it. Create a "sub-roof" and install both a ridge-vent and soffit vents so that natural convection gives airflow (and heat-removal) where the highest temperatures are (just below the surface of the roof) while also helping to keep that heat separate from the rest of the attic. Paint the surface of your roof white. Yes, seriously, lol. A quality roof-coating applied correctly can do wonders. It may not be pretty (at least in your eyes) but life's like that. In the event that you have other heat-producing items in your attic - such as an air-conditioning unit or water-heater, get them out of there.
When it's August and all that has failed miserably (lol), carry your plants down to the basement. Even if it's damp, you'll probably have less money/hassle at least in the long-term sense making your basement dry (especially if you don't mind picking up a shovel and digging down to your foundation all the way around your house so you can get at the exterior of your basement walls) then you would in creating a permanent cooling (and heating in the winter) solution for your attic. Not to mention (but I will) that security - that is, ensuring against detectability - tends to be about two orders of magnitude easier in your basement than in your attic.
This is precisely why I was only ever able to grow in the attic during late fall through early spring. It's a whole lot easier to heat the grow space (box, closet, etc) than it is to cool it. I learned the hard way when I had to terminate a grow in the flowering phase when spring arrived in a big way one year and made it impossible to cool the box.
Basements are much better places to grow, not only are they inherently cooler but there is no danger of damage to ceilings & rooms below from leaked/ spilled water or nutrient solution.
Basements are much better places to grow, not only are they inherently cooler but there is no danger of damage to ceilings & rooms below from leaked/ spilled water or nutrient solution.
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- #7
TorturedSoul said:
Great info!! The attic is insulated but not in the traditional way just on the floor. I carved out a little 6x10 area with panda paper. I installed some insulation today and will be installing some reflective insulated covers as well. I'm unable to paint the roof white which would have been a great addition however I will create a sub roof and place a fan of sum sorts to excort that air out before it can reach my GR. I difinitley will insulate my ducting. I'm only running one 400 w HPS with a 4" TD inline fan taking the air out the room outside (vent like window) and I do have my ballast outside my room. As for the AC unit it is in the room. I left the panda paper up, using it for an outer layer. I'm sure this will cut down sum of the heat I just hope it will be sufficient. In regards to the run waste system...umm I'm not sure what that means lol. First time grower here. I tapped into a water line and ran a line to my rez where I have a float valve. At this point I'm doing test runs I still have time to make sum tweaks.
That is the traditional way, making the attic "dead" space.
Means pulling water in from your supply to cool your lights (if water-cooled) and running it right down the drain, afterwards, adding to the volume load at your local wastewater treatment plant for no real reason.
Or (worse), taking your water supply, adding fertilizers to it, dripping (etc.) it through your plants... and dumping the salt-laden water down your drains and on to your local wastewater treatment plant - where, at times of high load (many plants were built at what was considered "mostly adequate..." for 1965), it goes bypass and dumps on into your river/etc.
I'm just not a fan. Not just because of the wastage, but because I've been in wastewater treatment plants (they have nice labs <SHRUGS>) and have seen how often they go over capacity.
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- #9
I gotcha...I'm not running any of those systems. I looked into some tall boy's and small boy's and R/O unable to place a rez tht size for those systems up there...I also looked into a heat exchanger that would be ideal however I do not have access to the neccessary equp to run the exchanger up there...this is getting tricky.
