Anyone have an Apogee AGP-MQ-500 quantum meter?

[fanleaf]

I just bought one to test my Cree Cob arrays. Wondering if you guys that have or had one can answer a few q's?

Was it worth the price? Is there anything special I should know? I forked out about $500 for it because I wanted the 500 because it's the full spectrum unit made for all light sources including LED which it seems the previous models weren't very good for. Just wondering the opinions of those who are familiar with the 500
Anyways, Thanks

 

[Graytail]

Check with Icemud. His meter is older, but he's as close to an expert as we have around here on PAR readings and the science behind them.


[Edit] In fact, I think he still has a bunch of videos on yootoob.

 

[Icemud]

I just bought one to test my Cree Cob arrays. Wondering if you guys that have or had one can answer a few q's?

Was it worth the price? Is there anything special I should know? I forked out about $500 for it because I wanted the 500 because it's the full spectrum unit made for all light sources including LED which it seems the previous models weren't very good for. Just wondering the opinions of those who are familiar with the 500
Anyways, Thanks

The MQ500 is new as of this year, and is much more accurate than the MQ200 that I have. The difference is that it reads the deep red and deep blue more accurate (much flatter of a response), where the model I have falls of quite a bit in the deep blue region as well as the red. Its much closer to the detail or accuracy of a Li-Cor, but still less than half the price of a Li-Cor.

I haven't used the 500, and still have my 200 which for my reference use its good enough, but the 500 is much more accurate. If I could afford one I would definitely upgrade! nice purchase! For testing your Cree arrays it will be more than sufficient.

 

[fanleaf]

The MQ500 is new as of this year, and is much more accurate than the MQ200 that I have. The difference is that it reads the deep red and deep blue more accurate (much flatter of a response), where the model I have falls of quite a bit in the deep blue region as well as the red. Its much closer to the detail or accuracy of a Li-Cor, but still less than half the price of a Li-Cor.

I haven't used the 500, and still have my 200 which for my reference use its good enough, but the 500 is much more accurate. If I could afford one I would definitely upgrade! nice purchase! For testing your Cree arrays it will be more than sufficient.

Thats great encouragement. A read what I could and it seemed like the one to get. Thank you Icemud! As soon as I get on my laptop I'm going to rep you up lol. I can't do it from my phone. That's really good information too. So if I understand correctly when I run a head-to-head with the Cree LED array versus my platinum's and such that will be a much more accurate Head to Head because it will read the red and blue LEDs better on the three what units. Thanks man!

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[Icemud]

Thats great encouragement. A read what I could and it seemed like the one to get. Thank you Icemud! As soon as I get on my laptop I'm going to rep you up lol. I can't do it from my phone. That's really good information too. So if I understand correctly when I run a head-to-head with the Cree LED array versus my platinum's and such that will be a much more accurate Head to Head because it will read the red and blue LEDs better on the three what units. Thanks man!

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Yea it definitely will be more accurate than the MQ200 model I have. There still are conversion factors that you could apply for each light source, the cree is much easier because the converstions are based off light type, and color temp. With multi mono panels like the other one you have, its tougher because each multi mono has different combinations of red/blue..etc.. so there isn't a direct conversion factor to use but there are a few for red, green, blue LED panels... I usually don't even use the conversion as I only test for reference which the small conversion factor really won't influence much, but you can really choose to use them or not, as the difference won't be very much.

You will see that those cree cobs are much better at spreading the light evenly and more uniform than led's with dual lenses. The dual lens leds are much more intense in the middle than cobs will be but the intensity drops off pretty severly once you move away from the center and out from under the panel, where the cobs will carry much better Apogee has these conversions, as well as the error charts and corrections on their website. Very good resource.

 

[fanleaf]

Heres a pic of my first array. 18X Cree cxb3590's in a 4.5 foot by 4 foot area. 12x 3000k and 6x 5000k. 5 meanwells. Right now cruising at 780w from the wall. Can go as low as I want and up to about 1.6 kilowatts. The 5k's are on seperate drivers so depending on vegetative or flowering cycle I can turn up the blue and down the red or up the red and down the blue. Cant wait for the Apogee to arrive! This should be a very very efficient array or I can just bomb the shit out of the plans with light if I want.

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[fanleaf]

Heres the rest.

I still have some cleaning up to do with arranging wires and such but I think this will be an awesome light with more than one cob per square foot.

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[Graytail]

Very interesting! I have nearly the same space at 48x57 inches and I've been working out a 30 COB design, 6x5. I found Citizen CLU048-1812s at $18.55 apiece, so I can make it affordably at $52 per COB total. I've crunched a lot of numbers and 1000 watts of COB in an 18 sqft space is about 1500 ppfd, which is at saturation levels.

Are you running 320H Mean Wells? Ya, that'll do. 1400ma and almost 100 watts*18. Your efficiency must be great!

I'm gonna make a guess and see if all my study made me any smarter. If you're running 780 watts at the wall, I think you should be getting about 1100-1200 umols at 24 inches.

If you don't mind me asking, how much did all the rigging cost? I'm still working with solid heatsinks because the cost is very close and they're already one piece, but a lot of the difference is in all that aluminum channel. My sink cost is ~$15 per COB.

 

[fanleaf]

Yea it definitely will be more accurate than the MQ200 model I have. There still are conversion factors that you could apply for each light source, the cree is much easier because the converstions are based off light type, and color temp. With multi mono panels like the other one you have, its tougher because each multi mono has different combinations of red/blue..etc.. so there isn't a direct conversion factor to use but there are a few for red, green, blue LED panels... I usually don't even use the conversion as I only test for reference which the small conversion factor really won't influence much, but you can really choose to use them or not, as the difference won't be very much.

You will see that those cree cobs are much better at spreading the light evenly and more uniform than led's with dual lenses. The dual lens leds are much more intense in the middle than cobs will be but the intensity drops off pretty severly once you move away from the center and out from under the panel, where the cobs will carry much better Apogee has these conversions, as well as the error charts and corrections on their website. Very good resource.

Ok. I probably wont worry about conversions either. My big reason for buying it as I can see what different settings will do to the PPFD. That way I can tune the power to the lights to give a good to high level of PPFD to the plants. I figured the Apogee would really take a lot of guessing how much power to use out of the equation.

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[fanleaf]

Very interesting! I have nearly the same space at 48x57 inches and I've been working out a 30 COB design, 6x5. I found Citizen CLU048-1812s at $18.55 apiece, so I can make it affordably at $52 per COB total. I've crunched a lot of numbers and 1000 watts of COB in an 18 sqft space is about 1500 ppfd, which is at saturation levels.

Are you running 320H Mean Wells? Ya, that'll do. 1400ma and almost 100 watts*18. Your efficiency must be great!

I'm gonna make a guess and see if all my study made me any smarter. If you're running 780 watts at the wall, I think you should be getting about 1100-1200 umols at 24 inches.

If you don't mind me asking, how much did all the rigging cost? I'm still working with solid heatsinks because the cost is very close and they're already one piece, but a lot of the difference is in all that aluminum channel. My sink cost is ~$15 per COB.

Im running the meanwell 320 2100mA on the 3kccobs! Running 4 cobs off of each 320 so I can dim from 0w through 85w each cob.
For the 5k's Im using 2 of the 240 drivers each pushing 3 cobs. That allows me to dim them from 0-almost 85w per cob.

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[fanleaf]

Also
My local Menards lumber/hardware store is where I bought all of the alluminum Channel at. If you're asking the cost of all of that between the rivets and all of the aluminum I probably have close to $200 in it.

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[fanleaf]

If i run low at about 40w per cob I should be quite a bit more efficient than a new DE hps and better spread with more PPFD too.

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[fanleaf]

Very interesting! I have nearly the same space at 48x57 inches and I've been working out a 30 COB design, 6x5. I found Citizen CLU048-1812s at $18.55 apiece, so I can make it affordably at $52 per COB total. I've crunched a lot of numbers and 1000 watts of COB in an 18 sqft space is about 1500 ppfd, which is at saturation levels.

Are you running 320H Mean Wells? Ya, that'll do. 1400ma and almost 100 watts*18. Your efficiency must be great!

I'm gonna make a guess and see if all my study made me any smarter. If you're running 780 watts at the wall, I think you should be getting about 1100-1200 umols at 24 inches.

If you don't mind me asking, how much did all the rigging cost? I'm still working with solid heatsinks because the cost is very close and they're already one piece, but a lot of the difference is in all that aluminum channel. My sink cost is ~$15 per COB.

Ive seen those Citizen Leds too. I know a guy that specializes in those on his online store. The only reason I didn't go with the citizen LEDs is because the 3590 s in high bins will run more efficiently then the citizens while cruising at low wattage. With this many cobs per square foot I should be able to just cruise at between 35 and 45 watts per LED and have plenty of par. Once you crank the power up the citizen LEDs are about right there with the Crees but at low wattage I don't think they can hang efficiency wise.
These dang 5k are DB bin and push over 14,000 lumens lol. I cant remember the lumens per watt but its rediculous high. I wanna say high 180's at decent power levels but i could be wrong.

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[fanleaf]

My heatsinks were 20 bux per cob already drilled and tapped. I bought a bunch extra for future expansion lol. They are 140mm X 70mm and handle full power easilly.

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[Graytail]

Ive seen those Citizen Leds too. I know a guy that specializes in those on his online store. The only reason I didn't go with the citizen LEDs is because the 3590 s in high bins will run more efficiently then the citizens while cruising at low wattage. With this many cobs per square foot I should be able to just cruise at between 35 and 45 watts per LED and have plenty of par. Once you crank the power up the citizen LEDs are about right there with the Crees but at low wattage I don't think they can hang efficiency wise.
These dang 5k are DB bin and push over 14,000 lumens lol. I cant remember the lumens per watt but its rediculous high. I wanna say high 180's at decent power levels but i could be wrong.

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Yeah, I think you're right with the 180 Lu/w. I've seen people talk about numbers in the 200s with those 3590s, when you run them really soft. I'll drive the Citizens at 700ma max, I think. They're 52 volts, and I only want 1000 watts for the whole room, so 36 watts*30 is just about right. At 700ma the 1812's should do 155-160 Lumens/watt.

But they're cheap! And I'm only planning - by the time I buy, something else will be a better deal.

 

[fanleaf]

Yeah, I think you're right with the 180 Lu/w. I've seen people talk about numbers in the 200s with those 3590s, when you run them really soft. I'll drive the Citizens at 700ma max, I think. They're 52 volts, and I only want 1000 watts for the whole room, so 36 watts*30 is just about right. At 700ma the 1812's should do 155-160 Lumens/watt.

But they're cheap! And I'm only planning - by the time I buy, something else will be a better deal.

Just looked up the DB bins. At 0.35A they are 232.01 lm/W and 70% efficient!!!!! That's heat free veging lol. at 0.70 amps which I like they are 197 lm/W.


Hey Greytail.
Cree is getting ready to release some COB's that kill the 3590's from what I just heard. Probably $150 a chip or some crap like that though lol.

 

[Graytail]

Just looked up the DB bins. At 0.35A they are 232.01 lm/W and 70% efficient!!!!! That's heat free veging lol. at 0.70 amps which I like they are 197 lm/W.


Hey Greytail.
Cree is getting ready to release some COB's that kill the 3590's from what I just heard. Probably $150 a chip or some crap like that though lol.

232 is F'n nuts!

Yep, I heard about the new generation Crees, and I hope it'll drive prices down across the board. Bridgelux is releasing a new series, too, and dropping their prices on the current ones. Citizen is pushing hard, and the Japanese still haven't flexed their muscle.

 

[fanleaf]

As soon as these 8 week veg plants are flowered out I'm doing my first Doc's Hi Brix kit next. Just flipped the 3 to flower a few days ago. Can't wait to do a Hi Brix under these cob's.

 

[fanleaf]

Apogee still hasnt made it here. Called Apogee yesterday coincidentally as my unit was just finished being built and being taken off the assembly and put into shipping. Tracking info says it's more than halfway here now so I'm getting excited. Can't wait to be able to fine tune my lighting.

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[TorturedSoul]

Nice plants, and it looks like you've managed to get a great distribution across your footprint. I'll have to come back to this thread when my brain is awake (and after I've hit the lottery).

BtW, your discussion of a meter caused me to do a little searching for integrating spheres (expensive!). I did come across an article about building an inexpensive one. But in this context, the term "inexpensive" might be a relative one, lol. Does anyone have access to this?
Design of an inexpensive integrating sphere student laboratory setup for the optical characterization of light sources - IOPscience