Advice Needed: First Time Grower

[dshimsky]

Hey guys,

in the past week I've officially started my first indoor grow in a 4x8 with two 1500W LED's, 6inch Vivosun inline fan with carbon filter, and all the other important equipment needed. I germinated two seeds, mendo purps and critical #7 both feminized using the paper towel method. Both germinated and I planted them directly into 10-gallon pots. It's only been maybe 2 days since they've been planted but nothing is popping out just yet to the surface. I've read around that it can take up to 5-7 days, which is fine. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly. I have the RH at a soil 76% and the temp is around 77-79 degrees.


I do have two clips fans pushing air around the tent and a tower fan on low pushing air as well. The inline fan is on low as well, while I have an air purifier on the outside pushing clean air through one of the vented holes on the side of the tent. I've lightly watered both pots with spray bottles and a shower head garden pourer only a few times a day the past few days.

Any advice? Again this is my first time and I want to make sure I'm doing things correctly.

 

[ChemByrne]

Hi, you're doing fine! They will probably show tomorrow or the day after. I woudn't bother with all that airflow until they are small seedlings .
I woul'dn't be watering every day though, if in such large container,just mist it or roots won't be healthy.

 

[multiVortex]

For now, your lighting is ok. Not great, but not terrible... for only 2 plants.

Each one of those “1500w” LED’s is going to be just enough for a 2x2 area. So if you plan to fill that tent in, be prepared to shell out a bit of money to light it up proper.


ETA: I’d put one light centered over each plant for now, and train them out horizontally within a 2x2 area. Once they fill it about 2/3 of the way, flip. Then fill out the rest of the space as they stretch, and once filled let them grow vertical.

 

[dshimsky]

Hi, you're doing fine! They will probably show tomorrow or the day after. I woudn't bother with all that airflow until they are small seedlings .
I woul'dn't be watering every day though, if in such large container,just mist it or roots won't be healthy.

Thank you for the quick response. I took your advice and turned off a few fans, only leaving the small clip fans on and the inline fan!

 

[dshimsky]

For now, your lighting is ok. Not great, but not terrible... for only 2 plants.

Each one of those “1500w” LED’s is going to be just enough for a 2x2 area. So if you plan to fill that tent in, be prepared to shell out a bit of money to light it up proper.


ETA: I’d put one light centered over each plant for now, and train them out horizontally within a 2x2 area. Once they fill it about 2/3 of the way, flip. Then fill out the rest of the space as they stretch, and once filled let them grow vertical.

Thanks for the response! I only plan on having at most 6-8 10-gallon pots in that tent at a time. I may order another light to put in the middle of the tent so the lighting is even. Do you think that'll be okay?

Just to reiterate:

6-8 plants in 10 gallon pots
Currently have two 1500w leds, will order another if needed

 

[multiVortex]

Those “1500w” led aren’t exactly all they claim to be.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand where you're coming from. However, the bad news is that you've been duped a bit. It happens a lot to novice growers. They get on amazon, etc, see this "1500w" LED light with big claims, and think they're getting a great deal. Well, unfortunately, not so much.

My guess is your light actually only draws about 250w, give or take. Maybe 270w. That' only going to be good to cover a 2x2 area at best. I know their marketing says otherwise, but that's just not going to be the case.

You would need 8 of those lights to cover that tent properly, if not 10 just to be on the safe side. At around $125/light, that's $1000-$1250 and going to pull 2000w (2160w if they are 270w/ea) - 2500w (2700w if they are 270w/ea).

Now, a true light example from one of our sponsors (@Budget LED) can light your tent up with just 4 lights. Granted those lights are going to cost a little more (a little over twice what the 1500w light cost), but those 4 lights combined will only be drawing 1000w total. You're already ahead of the game by at least 1000w, which means that price difference is going to shrink really, really quickly, and you'll be saving money in no time and at that point they are paying for themselves just in the electric savings.

How quickly?

The lights I'm referring to are the following:

Series 3+ Red Spec 250 Watt Dimmable Grow Light

Our Series 3+ Red Spec 250 Watt Indoor LED grow light is designed to be the ultimate flowering unit while also being our highest PPE unit available. Each kit utilizes 2 of our custom designed & full spectrum LED boards with Samsung LM301H, UVA, Samsung LH351H v2 Deep Red 660nm, and Samsung...

www.budgetgrowlights.com

This is an excellent veg and flower light, and plenty of power to cover a 4x2 area. (Going for a 4x2 coverage is the reason for the xl heatsink.)

For 4 of those lights, it would be ~$1440 (after forum member discount), which is $440 higher than 8 (or $190 if there were 10 of the "1500w" lights). So that's the face value difference initially. For the purpose of continuing discussion, I'll assume 8 lights.

So a difference of $440 upfront.

If you're running 8 of those "1500w" lights, that's 2000w, probably closer to 2160w. I'll go with 2000w just for ease of math. That means those lights cover half the space of the others (hence why you need twice as many), and will use at least twice as much power.

Put it this way, on average between veg at 18/6 and flower at 12/12, that's about an average of 15hrs/day during a grow. At an average of 12¢/kwh for electric, that's about $55/month per 1000w at 15hr average. ($65/mo at 18hr/day, $45/mo at 12hr/day.)

OK, so if you know what 1000w costs, that means those "1500w" lights are going to eat an extra $45/mo in flower, and $65/mo in veg.

Just at the flowering rate of $45/mo, that's going to take less than 10 months for the energy savings to eat up the difference. In those 10 months, half of those will be veg (on average), which means 5 months of veg hours ($325) and 2.5 months of flowering rate to eat up that $440 difference, for an average of 7.5 months.

From that day on, you're putting money in your pocket to the tune of $45-$65/month, which means you're paying yourself for those better lights every month, and over the course of the next 12-16 months, those lights will have paid for themselves over what you would end up buying on your current path.

The lights are plug and play, and with those and some good growing experience, it's quite possible to reach 1.5g-2g/w. Which means you "could" pull about 4 plates out of that 4x8 tent, if you can get 8 zips per plant. It no guarantee, as strain, experience, etc all come into play. However, that setup has that potential if you can learn and improve your skills.


Now you may be wondering why a lights that pulls a little less wattage is good for twice the footprint? It seems like an apples to apples comparison, but not quite.

See, those cheap-ass lights use substantially less quality of parts. They then only run the diodes at a fraction of their capability. Then there is also power to run the fans on those.

Now the Budget lights linked above only draw 250w each. They have no fans. Why? Because they use the power efficiently and don't produce a ton of heat. Therefore there is no need for fans on the light, or anything else. All that power is going into the lights.

They also use top of the line LED chips, which are significantly more efficient, and significantly more accurate in spectrum.

It really is that age-old adage about getting what you pay for.


That's a steep pill to swallow, but it's just the way it is. If need be you could light the tent one half at a time to make it a little easier.

Keep the "1500w" lights you have now for emergency spares, just in case you run into a problem.

 

[dshimsky]

Those “1500w” led aren’t exactly all they claim to be.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand where you're coming from. However, the bad news is that you've been duped a bit. It happens a lot to novice growers. They get on amazon, etc, see this "1500w" LED light with big claims, and think they're getting a great deal. Well, unfortunately, not so much.

My guess is your light actually only draws about 250w, give or take. Maybe 270w. That' only going to be good to cover a 2x2 area at best. I know their marketing says otherwise, but that's just not going to be the case.

You would need 8 of those lights to cover that tent properly, if not 10 just to be on the safe side. At around $125/light, that's $1000-$1250 and going to pull 2000w (2160w if they are 270w/ea) - 2500w (2700w if they are 270w/ea).

Now, a true light example from one of our sponsors (@Budget LED) can light your tent up with just 4 lights. Granted those lights are going to cost a little more (a little over twice what the 1500w light cost), but those 4 lights combined will only be drawing 1000w total. You're already ahead of the game by at least 1000w, which means that price difference is going to shrink really, really quickly, and you'll be saving money in no time and at that point they are paying for themselves just in the electric savings.

How quickly?

The lights I'm referring to are the following:

Series 3+ Red Spec 250 Watt Dimmable Grow Light

Our Series 3+ Red Spec 250 Watt Indoor LED grow light is designed to be the ultimate flowering unit while also being our highest PPE unit available. Each kit utilizes 2 of our custom designed & full spectrum LED boards with Samsung LM301H, UVA, Samsung LH351H v2 Deep Red 660nm, and Samsung...

www.budgetgrowlights.com

This is an excellent veg and flower light, and plenty of power to cover a 4x2 area. (Going for a 4x2 coverage is the reason for the xl heatsink.)

For 4 of those lights, it would be ~$1440 (after forum member discount), which is $440 higher than 8 (or $190 if there were 10 of the "1500w" lights). So that's the face value difference initially. For the purpose of continuing discussion, I'll assume 8 lights.

So a difference of $440 upfront.

If you're running 8 of those "1500w" lights, that's 2000w, probably closer to 2160w. I'll go with 2000w just for ease of math. That means those lights cover half the space of the others (hence why you need twice as many), and will use at least twice as much power.

Put it this way, on average between veg at 18/6 and flower at 12/12, that's about an average of 15hrs/day during a grow. At an average of 12¢/kwh for electric, that's about $55/month per 1000w at 15hr average. ($65/mo at 18hr/day, $45/mo at 12hr/day.)

OK, so if you know what 1000w costs, that means those "1500w" lights are going to eat an extra $45/mo in flower, and $65/mo in veg.

Just at the flowering rate of $45/mo, that's going to take less than 10 months for the energy savings to eat up the difference. In those 10 months, half of those will be veg (on average), which means 5 months of veg hours ($325) and 2.5 months of flowering rate to eat up that $440 difference, for an average of 7.5 months.

From that day on, you're putting money in your pocket to the tune of $45-$65/month, which means you're paying yourself for those better lights every month, and over the course of the next 12-16 months, those lights will have paid for themselves over what you would end up buying on your current path.

The lights are plug and play, and with those and some good growing experience, it's quite possible to reach 1.5g-2g/w. Which means you "could" pull about 4 plates out of that 4x8 tent, if you can get 8 zips per plant. It no guarantee, as strain, experience, etc all come into play. However, that setup has that potential if you can learn and improve your skills.


Now you may be wondering why a lights that pulls a little less wattage is good for twice the footprint? It seems like an apples to apples comparison, but not quite.

See, those cheap-ass lights use substantially less quality of parts. They then only run the diodes at a fraction of their capability. Then there is also power to run the fans on those.

Now the Budget lights linked above only draw 250w each. They have no fans. Why? Because they use the power efficiently and don't produce a ton of heat. Therefore there is no need for fans on the light, or anything else. All that power is going into the lights.

They also use top of the line LED chips, which are significantly more efficient, and significantly more accurate in spectrum.

It really is that age-old adage about getting what you pay for.


That's a steep pill to swallow, but it's just the way it is. If need be you could light the tent one half at a time to make it a little easier.

Keep the "1500w" lights you have now for emergency spares, just in case you run into a problem.

This is great information, thank you so much. I'll have to take this in and come up with a plan. But good news, I just checked my pots after maybe two hours from posting this post, and boom one sprout has popped up!

 

[multiVortex]

You're welcome. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I would rather let you (and other folks) know what they are up against, and try to give them the best possible chances for success without having to bust grow after grow and wonder why they only got 3 zips total across 6 plants.

The grower that keeps busting out loses faith and interest. If we can get them on the right path to success, and they do their part, then they learn and (hopefully) gain from that experience and find a wonderful hobby.

 

[dshimsky]

That's a great way to look at it. The main reason I started growing is that I've been very passionate about cannabis and I honestly want to start a business down the road infusing actual meals with cannabis.

It's trial; and error just like everything else in life, but having a platform like this and people like yourself creates a positive community. Again, I appreciate your help. I'll be sure to post some pictures once they both are thriving

 

[BigDannel]

I just upgraded to a 240W board with Samsung diodes and man what a difference from the blurple UFO light I had been running. Don't get me wrong, I had some nice grows under the old blurple light but these new lights are in a whole different class. No fans to waste energy, dimmer knob... completely lights up my 4'x3' tent more than the blurple light did when it's set to 25%. I've been running it at about 50% after slightly burning the plants with it.

The board light uses 240w from the wall when turned all the way up, I bought a Killawatt meter to test. It's nice to know energy isn't being wasted on fans.

 

[dshimsky]

Hi, you're doing fine! They will probably show tomorrow or the day after. I woudn't bother with all that airflow until they are small seedlings .
I woul'dn't be watering every day though, if in such large container,just mist it or roots won't be healthy.

Just an update, both have breached the surface and are looking lovely!