420 Magazine's Official Girl Scout Cookies Comparative Grow By Brett Blaze

Daily Update -

Stage - Flower Day 7 - 58 days above ground


The ladies are ending their first week of flower and growing strong. I raised the Demon LED by @Budget LED another 2 inches this morning as the side fan leaves are hitting the edges of the tent. #2 (the stunted slow starter) is definitely outgrowing #1. Not only in height but in total good bud sites.

#1 received a solution flush last night and #2 received one this morning. Both were showing signs of build up.

Today's Photos:









:peace: :passitleft:
 
Daily Update -

Stage - Flower Day 8 - 59 days above ground


Starting week two of flower and plant #1 is not showing as much (if any) stretch as #2 which is moving along just fine. I was also not really happy with the shape of #1 from the LST. Not sure how I overlooked this but the 4 main branches had pulled up a little compressing the entire plant. After spending some time this morning doing some LST I think it's looking a lot more symmetrical. Note: The photos were taken prior to LST. I try to take the photos after a full day period recuperating. After LST they looked stressed.

Output waste water ppm is still higher than I like but not dangerous. Each plant gets about 1.5 liters a day of solution. 500 ml at night and 1 liter each morning.

Today's Photos:









:peace: :passitleft:
 
Daily Update -

Stage - Flower Day 9 - 60 days above ground


After doing a little LST on #1 last night to pull down the four main branches, the inner branches are getting some more direct light but lag #2. I should have pulled them down more earlier as #2 is kicking #1's ass in the stretch race. #1 looks much better to me but really doesn't show much difference in the photos. Since this is my first Quadline I have learned a lot that will help in future grows.

Today's Photos:









:peace: :passitleft:
 
Happy Friday! Plants are looking awesome. I will seriously be considering a demon board from @Budget LED based on your grow.

I shouldn't admit this but right now, I am swapping my budget led red spec from one 2x4 tent to another to have both flower under 12 hours of light. :rofl:

All of my plants love the light but man, yours look so good, I might have to upgrade on the next one and stop hauling this one back and forth twice a day.
 
Happy Friday! Plants are looking awesome. I will seriously be considering a demon board from @Budget LED based on your grow.

I shouldn't admit this but right now, I am swapping my budget led red spec from one 2x4 tent to another to have both flower under 12 hours of light. :rofl:

All of my plants love the light but man, yours look so good, I might have to upgrade on the next one and stop hauling this one back and forth twice a day.
I highly recommend it.
 
Anything you can share with the class?

The plants look awesome from my perspective. Very nice job on the grow.

Azi
I was in the middle of including a list but I wanted to get my notes together and needed more time. Very busy day so I'll post something later.
 
Daily Update -

Stage - Flower Day 10 - 61 days above ground


#2 still outgrowing #1 on the stretch. My guess there is about a 3 day difference which may have been caused by me pruning a little too much after flipping causing some stress and energy channeling leading to #1's flip delay.

There is a sign of flowering starting on #2 with the bud sites very defined. #1 is getting there. I had to perform some additional LST on #1 to get proper spacing which caused even more stress so the delay is understandable.

Output waste water numbers were extremely high. I flushed both plants with 1.5 liters each of solution to help bring the numbers down. It helped but I need to find the cause of the high output or I just need to get more runoff each time. I am not thrilled with wasting a liter of solution at each watering since I could run out of the @Prescription Blend nutrients before I finish.

Have a great weekend.

Today's Photos:








:peace: :passitleft:
 
Daily Update -

Stage - Flower Day 11 - 62 days above ground


Happy Sunday growers.

Both @Weed Seeds Express GSC ladies are looking great with #1 is still lagging behind and is loosing a lot of ground to #2. It's having difficulty getting the main branches to grow above the lower canopy area. I did a lot of leaf tucking this morning after taking the photos by pushing larger light blocking leaves under the lower bud sites. This is a better alternative to pruning at this stage in flower to avoid stress and additional stalls in growth. #1 continues to show very high output levels even after a flush yesterday. Since #2's levels were also high, both got an extra liter of solution this morning. After letting a lot solution drain from this mornings watering, the output readings dropped to acceptable levels. The levels have been bordering or above the 400 ppm maximum difference allowance from the input. #1 was 800 ppm above and #2 right at 400 ppm above input levels last night.

I turned up the output of the Demon LED from @Budget LED about 10%. The height from the top of #2 is 17" to 18" while closer to 21" for #1.

I also raised the stickers. :cheesygrinsmiley:

Have a great Sunday.

Today's Photos:









:peace: :passitleft:
 
If you're getting consistently high output levels, why wouldn't you just start lowering input amounts? I've not grown in coco so don't fully understand, but wouldn't high output levels suggest they aren't using up as much as you're giving? Or is it something else?

They continue to look great so you've obviously got it pretty well dialed in.
 
If you're getting consistently high output levels, why wouldn't you just start lowering input amounts? I've not grown in coco so don't fully understand, but wouldn't high output levels suggest they aren't using up as much as you're giving? Or is it something else?

They continue to look great so you've obviously got it pretty well dialed in.
I thought about this also and if this last flush doesn't correct the problem I will. The most likely issue is infrequent fertigation which causes excessive evaporation leading to high salt residual (high ppm). Since I am not getting nute burn I don't believe the total nutrient ppm is too high. The Cal-Mag and Terpinator add 400 pmm which in total may be more total ppm than the plant can handle. I also have 145 ppm from the base tap water. The base nutrient solution is around 1100 ppm. Prior to the Cal-Mag and Terpinator I have a total of 1250 ppm. With Cal-Mag and Terpinator I am at 1650. The max ppm for input is around 1400 ppm during early bloom versus 1500 for late Veg so I have been a little high the last week or so. I have been pushing my total limit so I may reduce the Terpinator to get down to 1400. Even so I don't believe a 2100 to 2700 output ppm (450 to 1050 over input) would be caused by 250 ppm higher input.

I would like to correct the issue and the best solution is to water more frequently. I have addressed this several times in my threads. Every 6 to 8 hours is desired versus the every 12 hrs I am using now. I have discussed an auto irrigation system but there are reasons I would like to avoid this and I may switch the 12/12 cycle to allow more frequent hand waterings. This is my first Coco grow so a lot of what I am doing is from what I have learned from others.

If I flush with lower ppm solution I need to consider the following.

To receive water through osmosis, plants need to adjust the concentration of sugars within their roots. When the ppm of the nutrient solution is lower than they are prepared for, they take in too much water and have to lower the concentration of sugars in their roots. Conversely, when the EC of the nutrient solution is higher than they are prepared for, they cannot take in sufficient water and have to direct their energy into producing sugars to raise the concentration in their roots. When the ppm goes up suddenly, plants can suffer burn even at relatively low ppm because the roots are prepared for even lower.

The common practice of interval flushing in coco with one watering of nutrient solution and one watering of "plain", "pHed", or "CalMag" water should not be practiced because it results in unstable root zone ppm and forces plants to constantly adjust. Keeping plants healthy and happy requires delivering a nutrient solution with a consistent ppm at each fertigation event.

:peace:
 
Monitoring Output PPM (EC) and Frequent Fertigation Practices

When considering the target EC for your nutrient solution (inflow), you need to understand that the EC will rise between fertigation events. Water is removed through transpiration and evaporation faster than salts are removed. This causes the EC of the nutrient solution suspended in the coco to rise between fertigation events. Therefore, the target for the EC of the inflow is always lower than the maximum acceptable run-off score.

Plants draw water across the membranes of their roots through the process of osmosis. The force that actually drives the movement of water comes as a result of osmotic pressure that is only partially controlled by the plant. Osmosis always pulls water from a less concentrated solution to a more concentrated solution. Under fertigation, the nutrient solution is on one side of the root membrane and water inside the root is on the other. Plants produce sugars in their roots which raises the concentration of the solution within the root and causes water to enter from the nutrient solution.

The fertilizers that we use are different forms of salt. If you put too much salt in the water then the plant will not be able to pull water in from the nutrient solution. The plant will struggle to get water as the nutrient solution gets saltier. If it is very salty, osmosis can reverse and water can actually be pulled out of your plant. (nutrient burn)

EC is important because it measures the salinity of the water. Managing EC effectively encourages healthy vigorous plant growth. As discussed further below, failure to control EC will slow plants and can cause serious problems with dehydration.

EC stands for “Electrical Conductivity. Both EC and PPM measure the exact same thing, they just use different numbers to express the information.

What Happens to the Water and the Salt?


When you add nutrient solution to the coco, you are adding both water and salts. To understand how EC changes between fertigation events, it is important to consider what happens to each. Plants do not absorb nutrient solution “through a straw” or “like a sponge”. Water and salts (fertilizers) are taken up by the plant separately. Under normal conditions, water is removed about four times faster than salts are absorbed. As a result, the EC of the nutrient solution in the media will rise between fertigation events.

Where Does the Water Go?

The Plant:
Plants absorb water through osmosis leaving increased concentrations of salt in the nutrient solution in the coco. Plants also absorb nutrients and thus lower the quantity of salts in the solution. However, they remove the water much faster than they remove the salts. The vast majority of this water moves through the plant and is lost through transpiration. The water that goes to the plant raises the EC of the nutrient solution in the coco.

Evaporation: As water sits in the pot suspended in the coco between fertigation events it is constantly evaporating. The water that is lost to evaporation causes EC in the remaining nutrient solution to increase. Evaporation raises the EC of the nutrient solution in the coco.

Because of transpiration and evaporation, the EC in the coco is lowest immediately following a fertigation and “Peak EC” occurs just prior to the next fertigation event. The fertigation events themselves are responsible for lowering the EC in the coco. It may seem counter-intuitive to lower the level of salts by adding nutrient solution, but the process occurs through run-off.

The Run-off:
As fresh nutrient solution is added to the coco it pushes out old nutrient solution which had been suspended in the coco. The run-off is not the same water that you are adding in the top. Run-off is higher EC than inflow because it has been sitting in the coco and subjected to the forces of transpiration and evaporation. Run-off carries salts out of the coco. Following each fertigation, the nutrient solution in the coco is closer to the inflow EC. Run-off lowers EC by flushing excess salts.

Water is removed through transpiration and evaporation, whereas salt is only removed via run-off. As a result, frequent fertigation with adequate run-off is essential to manage EC and get the best results from your coco grow!

High Frequency Fertigation:


It is important to provide nutrient solution that is the correct EC , but the EC rises as the water sits in the pots. As a result, root zone EC is generally higher than inflow EC. Because EC gradually rises as the nutrient solution sits in the pots, fertigation frequency is one of the main ways that you need to manage the EC of the nutrient solution in the root zone. If the time between fertigation events is long, then the difference between the EC of the inflow and the EC of the nutrient solution in the root zone will be large.

Measuring the EC of the nutrient solution suspended in the root zone is impractical. However, the run-off that is generated at fertigation events is a good indication of the water that had been available to the plants. We measure run-off EC as a proxy for measuring root zone EC.

If the output is high the best solution is to increase fertigation frequency. The most likely cause of high EC run-off is excessive losses to evaporation between fertigation events. Increasing frequency will help to prevent EC from drifting too high between fertigation events.

If increasing frequency is not practical or not helping, then you should increase quantity of nutrient solution applied at each fertigation to ensure a thorough saturation of the media. Increasing the quantity of run-off should help lower the quantity of salts in the root zone. Quantities may be reduced as EC returns to the acceptable range.

Only if run-off EC is dangerously or persistently high, should flushing with a lower EC solution be considered.


When the run-off EC starts to climb, the best course of action is to increase the fertigation frequency. If this is not possible, the second-best option is to increase the quantity of run-off at each event. Only when these methods cannot control the run-off EC within the acceptable limit, should you consider lowering the EC of the inflow or “Flushing to Lower EC”.

Coco For Cannabis EC Run-off Guidelines:

If Run-off EC is:(Compared to inflow)StatusAction
Lower than inflow ECAnomalyNot a problem. Should self-correct.
Within +200*IdealMonitor EC twice weekly
+200 to +300AcceptableMonitor EC daily, consider increasing fertigation frequency
+300 to +400CautionIncrease fertigation frequency and/or Increase quantity of run-off.
+400 or HigherDangerConsider flushing
:peace:
 
Ok, thanks. As a non-coco grower that's a lot to wrap my head around, but I think I get the gist. I'll watch and try to follow along with your adjustments and try to learn something.
It's hard to explain the reasoning without understanding the the way coco growing works. I have done several Hydro grows so I have some hydro knowledge. I am still learning coco growing.

I decided to install an auto irrigation system. I'm doing the testing right now.
 
I thought about this also and if this last flush doesn't correct the problem I will. The most likely issue is infrequent fertigation which causes excessive evaporation leading to high salt residual (high ppm). Since I am not getting nute burn I don't believe the total nutrient ppm is too high. The Cal-Mag and Terpinator add 400 pmm which in total may be more total ppm than the plant can handle. I also have 145 ppm from the base tap water. The base nutrient solution is around 1100 ppm. Prior to the Cal-Mag and Terpinator I have a total of 1250 ppm. With Cal-Mag and Terpinator I am at 1650. The max ppm for input is around 1400 ppm during early bloom versus 1500 for late Veg so I have been a little high the last week or so. I have been pushing my total limit so I may reduce the Terpinator to get down to 1400. Even so I don't believe a 2100 to 2700 output ppm (450 to 1050 over input) would be caused by 250 ppm higher input.

I would like to correct the issue and the best solution is to water more frequently. I have addressed this several times in my threads. Every 6 to 8 hours is desired versus the every 12 hrs I am using now. I have discussed an auto irrigation system but there are reasons I would like to avoid this and I may switch the 12/12 cycle to allow more frequent hand waterings. This is my first Coco grow so a lot of what I am doing is from what I have learned from others.

If I flush with lower ppm solution I need to consider the following.

To receive water through osmosis, plants need to adjust the concentration of sugars within their roots. When the ppm of the nutrient solution is lower than they are prepared for, they take in too much water and have to lower the concentration of sugars in their roots. Conversely, when the EC of the nutrient solution is higher than they are prepared for, they cannot take in sufficient water and have to direct their energy into producing sugars to raise the concentration in their roots. When the ppm goes up suddenly, plants can suffer burn even at relatively low ppm because the roots are prepared for even lower.

The common practice of interval flushing in coco with one watering of nutrient solution and one watering of "plain", "pHed", or "CalMag" water should not be practiced because it results in unstable root zone ppm and forces plants to constantly adjust. Keeping plants healthy and happy requires delivering a nutrient solution with a consistent ppm at each fertigation event.

:peace:
All that makes me think we have the same intelligence lol but you have well details in your hussle my friend! Thanks for making all that make sense for my brain intake! For some reason I'm slow but man that all clicked in I'm not even sure a book mark is needed! But still gonna go ahead a mark it just in case I get another knock on the head lmao! Cheers Bret garden looks great by the way!
 
Daily Update -

Stage - Flower Day 12 - 63 days above ground


Last night I decided to hook up an auto irrigation system to allow watering during the evening. I hope this will help reduce output ppm levels by providing more frequent fertigation. I was hesitant to do this because I have to remove the tubing when/if I want to turn the plant. The watering rings were difficult to put in place due to limited space between the lowest branches and the top of the soil. It's a simple system but difficult to dial in. Last nights test ran for three minutes at what I thought was the lowest level. I ended of having up to nearly 1.5 liters of excess runoff. After reducing the flow I set it up to run for three minutes at 3:00 AM. This morning there was no runoff so I adjusted it further again for this morning's watering. I set it up to barely drip then timed how long it took to get runoff started at which time I turned it off. It ended up being 11 minutes of slow drip. The runoff was pretty good so I am leaving it there for the time being.

I made a fresh batch of solution this morning and removed the Terpinator. A couple reasons. One was the ppms are too high and without the Terpinator I am at 1450 ppm which is closer to what I would like at this stage. Also I am having some PH drift which I didn't notice prior to adding Terpinator a few weeks ago. The Ph has been rising from 6.2 to 6.7 overnight. This morning it jumped up to 6.9. This is big concerning when doing auto watering.

You can see the setup in the photos. The reservoir is a 8 gallon (maybe 10) container with a small pump set up to a digital timer. I also included an air stone to keep the solution's oxygen levels up.

Today's Photos:










:peace: :passitleft:
 
Monitoring Output PPM (EC) and Frequent Fertigation Practices

When considering the target EC for your nutrient solution (inflow), you need to understand that the EC will rise between fertigation events. Water is removed through transpiration and evaporation faster than salts are removed. This causes the EC of the nutrient solution suspended in the coco to rise between fertigation events. Therefore, the target for the EC of the inflow is always lower than the maximum acceptable run-off score.

Plants draw water across the membranes of their roots through the process of osmosis. The force that actually drives the movement of water comes as a result of osmotic pressure that is only partially controlled by the plant. Osmosis always pulls water from a less concentrated solution to a more concentrated solution. Under fertigation, the nutrient solution is on one side of the root membrane and water inside the root is on the other. Plants produce sugars in their roots which raises the concentration of the solution within the root and causes water to enter from the nutrient solution.

The fertilizers that we use are different forms of salt. If you put too much salt in the water then the plant will not be able to pull water in from the nutrient solution. The plant will struggle to get water as the nutrient solution gets saltier. If it is very salty, osmosis can reverse and water can actually be pulled out of your plant. (nutrient burn)

EC is important because it measures the salinity of the water. Managing EC effectively encourages healthy vigorous plant growth. As discussed further below, failure to control EC will slow plants and can cause serious problems with dehydration.

EC stands for “Electrical Conductivity. Both EC and PPM measure the exact same thing, they just use different numbers to express the information.

What Happens to the Water and the Salt?

When you add nutrient solution to the coco, you are adding both water and salts. To understand how EC changes between fertigation events, it is important to consider what happens to each. Plants do not absorb nutrient solution “through a straw” or “like a sponge”. Water and salts (fertilizers) are taken up by the plant separately. Under normal conditions, water is removed about four times faster than salts are absorbed. As a result, the EC of the nutrient solution in the media will rise between fertigation events.

Where Does the Water Go?

The Plant:
Plants absorb water through osmosis leaving increased concentrations of salt in the nutrient solution in the coco. Plants also absorb nutrients and thus lower the quantity of salts in the solution. However, they remove the water much faster than they remove the salts. The vast majority of this water moves through the plant and is lost through transpiration. The water that goes to the plant raises the EC of the nutrient solution in the coco.

Evaporation: As water sits in the pot suspended in the coco between fertigation events it is constantly evaporating. The water that is lost to evaporation causes EC in the remaining nutrient solution to increase. Evaporation raises the EC of the nutrient solution in the coco.

Because of transpiration and evaporation, the EC in the coco is lowest immediately following a fertigation and “Peak EC” occurs just prior to the next fertigation event. The fertigation events themselves are responsible for lowering the EC in the coco. It may seem counter-intuitive to lower the level of salts by adding nutrient solution, but the process occurs through run-off.

The Run-off:
As fresh nutrient solution is added to the coco it pushes out old nutrient solution which had been suspended in the coco. The run-off is not the same water that you are adding in the top. Run-off is higher EC than inflow because it has been sitting in the coco and subjected to the forces of transpiration and evaporation. Run-off carries salts out of the coco. Following each fertigation, the nutrient solution in the coco is closer to the inflow EC. Run-off lowers EC by flushing excess salts.

Water is removed through transpiration and evaporation, whereas salt is only removed via run-off. As a result, frequent fertigation with adequate run-off is essential to manage EC and get the best results from your coco grow!

High Frequency Fertigation:


It is important to provide nutrient solution that is the correct EC , but the EC rises as the water sits in the pots. As a result, root zone EC is generally higher than inflow EC. Because EC gradually rises as the nutrient solution sits in the pots, fertigation frequency is one of the main ways that you need to manage the EC of the nutrient solution in the root zone. If the time between fertigation events is long, then the difference between the EC of the inflow and the EC of the nutrient solution in the root zone will be large.

Measuring the EC of the nutrient solution suspended in the root zone is impractical. However, the run-off that is generated at fertigation events is a good indication of the water that had been available to the plants. We measure run-off EC as a proxy for measuring root zone EC.

If the output is high the best solution is to increase fertigation frequency. The most likely cause of high EC run-off is excessive losses to evaporation between fertigation events. Increasing frequency will help to prevent EC from drifting too high between fertigation events.

If increasing frequency is not practical or not helping, then you should increase quantity of nutrient solution applied at each fertigation to ensure a thorough saturation of the media. Increasing the quantity of run-off should help lower the quantity of salts in the root zone. Quantities may be reduced as EC returns to the acceptable range.

Only if run-off EC is dangerously or persistently high, should flushing with a lower EC solution be considered.


When the run-off EC starts to climb, the best course of action is to increase the fertigation frequency. If this is not possible, the second-best option is to increase the quantity of run-off at each event. Only when these methods cannot control the run-off EC within the acceptable limit, should you consider lowering the EC of the inflow or “Flushing to Lower EC”.

Coco For Cannabis EC Run-off Guidelines:

If Run-off EC is:(Compared to inflow)StatusAction
Lower than inflow ECAnomalyNot a problem. Should self-correct.
Within +200*IdealMonitor EC twice weekly
+200 to +300AcceptableMonitor EC daily, consider increasing fertigation frequency
+300 to +400CautionIncrease fertigation frequency and/or Increase quantity of run-off.
+400 or HigherDangerConsider flushing
:peace:
That’s brill that is mate. Really helpful. You’ve made it all sound easy..(ish):). thank you for sharing.
Peace an buds to ya
 
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