3 top 10 light reviews contradict each other - Please help

[texasdjj]

Objective: Secure the correct "light setup" to maximize production of a 6x6 area.

I currently have (2) plants in half the area, DWC utilizing a "Veloya B100" from Finland. (cost me $2k USD in Indonesia); I am currently battling PH issues, however, I have been told by some "smart people" with lots "green dots" under their names that: "Plants may be a little light deprived in the lower areas - Plant looks "Spindly", ETC.

So I'm buying new lights ASAP and have read a lot, spoken directly with Manufacturers in China, California and Finland and have seen some "people" here on 420M that have developed their own systems with fantastic looking achievements.

Shipping from USA to where I am in Indonesia is averaging: $400
Import tax / duty fees for me will equal %100 of the declared package invoice.
The "primary" lights I am considering are retailing for: $800 - $1,200
So my actual out of pocket on this next purchase will be in the neighborhood $2-2.5k USD.

That said, I don't want to screw up the selection:
MarsPro II CREE 256 - I have read good/bad and ugly, here, there and elsewhere. I am in touch with the manufacturer in China (nice people).

Much Appreciated!
Texasdjj

 

[cannaguy420]

If i had to choose I would go with the Bloom boss fusion 1000 or the kind xl1000 both are amazing steller lights for the money.I have seen both in action for a few years now and they have great service quality products great warranty..the only thing i did not like about the kind was the timer program its complicated and in my opinion not needed i did love the dimmer.this is only my opinion and i do mean my opinion as alot of people love the timer feature i just prefer a simpler method of timing.

 

[texasdjj]

If i had to choose I would go with the Bloom boss fusion 1000 or the kind xl1000 both are amazing steller lights for the money.I have seen both in action for a few years now and they have great service quality products great warranty..the only thing i did not like about the kind was the timer program its complicated and in my opinion not needed i did love the dimmer.this is only my opinion and i do mean my opinion as alot of people love the timer feature i just prefer a simpler method of timing.

Hello cannaguy420 - appreciate the input. I will research the Bloom Boss fusion 1000.
thanks,

 

[cannaguy420]

Hello cannaguy420 - appreciate the input. I will research the Bloom Boss fusion 1000.
thanks,

not a problem my friend!

 

[HizzyB]

I think leds are about ready to change the way a lot of growers who went all in led 5 or 6 years ago feel.

Soon they'll spank HPS lamps on average

 

[Icemud]

If I may suggest a few things...

Those top 10 lists you are speaking of... they are all false, and the purpose being to push products for affiliate programs but are baseless in actual facts... Those sites are only to make money for the website owner.. thats it...

****notice how every one of those "top 10" websites also links you directly to the Am@zon website, but not the manufacture page? its because Am@zon has one of the more profitable affiliate programs where everytime a person clicks on one of those grow lights and visits the Azon page, it tracks where that customer was referred from. The website then gets a referral fee/commission when the light is purchased for a certain timeframe...

Please don't trust any of those "Top XXXX product YYY" type websites as 9.9 times out of 10 they are only there to generate click revenue for the website owner and not based off anything more than the product can be purchased on Am@zon and qualifies for their affiliate program.



So... first off I would like to recommend you check out our sponsors here at 420 Magazine...
Sponsors : 420 MAGAZINE (R) - Medical Marijuana Publication & Social Networking

The sponsors are the reason why this forum remains one the the best, friendliest forums for the cannabis community so supporting the sponsors helps keep the forum running smoothly.

The benefit to you by using a sponsor is that there are most likely other members here with a similar setup, who also use the same products and grow methods, which can help guide you through any questions you may need to have help with.


2... the light you have is a nice light, but its designed primarily for vertical garden uses where it is extremely close to the plants, and not needing as much penetration power as it relies generally on the distance to your plants to keep intensity in the right area for cannabis. So I would suggest when you get new lights, continuing to use your old light, but try mounting it in the middle of your plants pointing towards the lower or "intra canopy".


3. So in your question, you say you have a 6x6 tent and are only using half of it, I am assuming that is because of the light you are using? but I am guessing that you will be using the full 6x6 tent with the new lights... is this a correct assumption?

4. I really like Budmaster Products and would highly recommend the COB X-6 (2 of them) for your setup, or the Budmaster High Pressure Sunlight HPS-6 (2 of them) which should cover your area really well. (they are also a sponsor)

 

[Mars Hydro]

If you like the Mars pro II Cree256,it's great,but i recommend you go with the Mars Pro II Epistar320.The 320 and the 256 with the same quilty,but Epistar320 price will be better.The Cree chips more expensive,but the growing result are not a big difference.

You can check the growing journal with Mars Pro II Epistar320 here.
10 Plant Grow With 3 x Mars Hydro LED & Autopot

 

[Oldbear]

I was just checking out the specs on the light you have. I'm wondering if you can resolve the problems by adjusting your methods? Keeping the canopy flat, and the light closer, could do it for you. Also you could supplement this light with some cfls hung like pendant lights to get down lower.

Check out keltic blue's thread on Timber Grow lights kits. For a 6x6 7 or 8 of those 200w crees would do it for you.

200 Watt Cree CXB3590 4 COB Grow Light Kit

 

[texasdjj]

If I may suggest a few things...

Those top 10 lists you are speaking of... they are all false, and the purpose being to push products for affiliate programs but are baseless in actual facts... Those sites are only to make money for the website owner.. thats it...

****notice how every one of those "top 10" websites also links you directly to the Am@zon website, but not the manufacture page? its because Am@zon has one of the more profitable affiliate programs where everytime a person clicks on one of those grow lights and visits the Azon page, it tracks where that customer was referred from. The website then gets a referral fee/commission when the light is purchased for a certain timeframe...

Please don't trust any of those "Top XXXX product YYY" type websites as 9.9 times out of 10 they are only there to generate click revenue for the website owner and not based off anything more than the product can be purchased on Am@zon and qualifies for their affiliate program.



So... first off I would like to recommend you check out our sponsors here at 420 Magazine...
Sponsors : 420 MAGAZINE (R) - Medical Marijuana Publication & Social Networking

The sponsors are the reason why this forum remains one the the best, friendliest forums for the cannabis community so supporting the sponsors helps keep the forum running smoothly.

The benefit to you by using a sponsor is that there are most likely other members here with a similar setup, who also use the same products and grow methods, which can help guide you through any questions you may need to have help with.


2... the light you have is a nice light, but its designed primarily for vertical garden uses where it is extremely close to the plants, and not needing as much penetration power as it relies generally on the distance to your plants to keep intensity in the right area for cannabis. So I would suggest when you get new lights, continuing to use your old light, but try mounting it in the middle of your plants pointing towards the lower or "intra canopy".


3. So in your question, you say you have a 6x6 tent and are only using half of it, I am assuming that is because of the light you are using? but I am guessing that you will be using the full 6x6 tent with the new lights... is this a correct assumption?

4. I really like Budmaster Products and would highly recommend the COB X-6 (2 of them) for your setup, or the Budmaster High Pressure Sunlight HPS-6 (2 of them) which should cover your area really well. (they are also a sponsor)

Hello Icemud - I'm embarrassed to admit that I did not pick up on the "association" between the top 10 lists, Amazon (or other retail market place), and the "click commissions". Thank you for the enlightenment! I will go back and look at the sponsor list again. I don't use a tent currently. I have (2) 2x5x7 stainless "frames on wheels", with a shelf on the bottom to place the reservoirs and a shelf on the top to put supplies and to hang the light from. Both racks have sufficient light in the early stages, however, I don't get the penetration - as "members" have noted in previous observations.. The plan now is to shift the "blue reservoir, 2nd stage rack" 180degrees and place a second blue reservoir next to it and have 4 plants. This will have the same problem with "penetration" - hence the pursuit of more / better LED systems. I'm already having problems with "HEAT" in this country, my room is also on 3rd floor of house so I'd like to stick with LED and not go HPS route.

The top of the 2nd rack is strong enough / stable enough to support a "moving ballast" system also - if that is recommended. I have had some recommendations to hang other bars down the sides to help penetrate..
thoughts?

 

[texasdjj]

If you like the Mars pro II Cree256,it's great,but i recommend you go with the Mars Pro II Epistar320.The 320 and the 256 with the same quilty,but Epistar320 price will be better.The Cree chips more expensive,but the growing result are not a big difference.

You can check the growing journal with Mars Pro II Epistar320 here.
10 Plant Grow With 3 x Mars Hydro LED & Autopot

Hi SmokeSara - one of the Russians talking to Trump told me that the meeting with Mr. Trump and Mr. Xi Jinping this week at the Mar-a-Lago Resort was to discuss many important items - including the upcoming release of a new light from Mars in a couple of days...
thoughts? thanks for your idea about going with the Epistar version. I suspect that reliability of the CREE chip is better and that is why it costs more..

 

[josh223]

Hi SmokeSara - one of the Russians talking to Trump told me that the meeting with Mr. Trump and Mr. Xi Jinping this week at the Mar-a-Lago Resort was to discuss many important items - including the upcoming release of a new light from Mars in a couple of days...
thoughts? thanks for your idea about going with the Epistar version. I suspect that reliability of the CREE chip is better and that is why it costs more..

 

[Icemud]

Hello Icemud - I'm embarrassed to admit that I did not pick up on the "association" between the top 10 lists, Amazon (or other retail market place), and the "click commissions". Thank you for the enlightenment! I will go back and look at the sponsor list again. I don't use a tent currently. I have (2) 2x5x7 stainless "frames on wheels", with a shelf on the bottom to place the reservoirs and a shelf on the top to put supplies and to hang the light from. Both racks have sufficient light in the early stages, however, I don't get the penetration - as "members" have noted in previous observations.. The plan now is to shift the "blue reservoir, 2nd stage rack" 180degrees and place a second blue reservoir next to it and have 4 plants. This will have the same problem with "penetration" - hence the pursuit of more / better LED systems. I'm already having problems with "HEAT" in this country, my room is also on 3rd floor of house so I'd like to stick with LED and not go HPS route.

The top of the 2nd rack is strong enough / stable enough to support a "moving ballast" system also - if that is recommended. I have had some recommendations to hang other bars down the sides to help penetrate..
thoughts?

Don't feel embarrassed in the least... I would guess that most people don't know this. The only reason I knew about those top 10 lists is because I have researched and developed affiliate programs for companies in the past, so I am familiar with their tactics. I've even been fooled a few times until I notice the am@zon links.. its almost always a dead giveaway.. but, even if there is not a azon link, even banner adds sometimes have this same feature. Not all of them, but some. Its also not just grow related products... almost every popular product on the market will have these lists, because people track what products or search words are trending, and then design sites specifically to capture as many people as they can while the trend is hot..

If you have ever googled "how to make money online" almost every single link that comes up leads you to a page, designed to make the website owner money... but rarely every actually teaches you anything, and usually there will be a subscription too or a paid access to the real info.. which again is just another money making scheme. The search for "how to make money online" is very very popular, so everyone that already is doing this tries to take advantage of those who don't know... sucks how shady of a world we live in... anyways... sorry to go off topic.. LOL

So that light you have does kick out quite a bit of light... but a huge problem I see, is that probably 1/2 of the light it is producing, is not hitting your plants... I would suggest buying some of those cheap mylar space/emergency blankets online for a buck each, and covering the walls of the rack with the space blankets/mylar film. Mylar reflects above 90% light so all that light bouncing around your room will be directed towards your plants. You don't have to enclose the whole rack, just do from the light down to about the middle of the plant on 3 sides and leave 1 side covered only to the top of the plant... this way a majority of that light will be directed towards your plant..This should help big time and cost much much less than new lights... or even if you could get some type of reflector to guide the light downwards and onto the plant, this will help greatly. If mylar is unavailable, even some flat white paint and some wood, or even white posterboard will help reflect about 60-80% of the light that right now isn't hitting your plants...

After seeing your photos, I don't really think you need to go as big as my original suggestion, as I though you were in a 6x6 tent with much larger plants... but looking at your plant size and buds, they actually look very good for the plants age... so do you plan on keeping your setup as is right now, and just adding light, or will you be also getting a 6x6 tent?

I'm confused because on your 1st post there was mention of a tent which is why I recommended what I did, but if you keep the same setup I would completely recommend a different lighting arrangement. As your grow sits now, I would suggest moving your light closer by 6" to 1', and just watch for bleaching... if the tops turn white or lose color, just back off the light a little and watch again... this will increase the amount of light that hits the plant and isn't spread to your room and floor, plus since less light is diffusing and instead hitting the plant so you will get more photosynthesis. If you do get more lights, you really shouldn't need more than maybe 300w more max... I would suggest a COB design as it right now is one of the best LED light sources available, and a few vendors here carry them. LED's that have dual lenses will be too intense I believe for your setup and won't project the light correctly.. even coverage is much more important than intensity in a narrow spot you could even get 1 more of the lights you already have and that would be ideal in my opinion...just move them close to the plants

If you are concerned with heat, I suggest running the majority of the plants "daylight period" during your night hours. I do this with my grow as it makes a huge difference in the temperatures as where I live it can get pretty hot and I don't have AC... Also setting up a fan in one of your windows blowing outwords will create a negative pressure and suck air in from other rooms, if you have the ability to put a fan blowing out in one and open a window across the room or house this will create a nice constant breeze which should keep temps down quite a bit.. (I use this at my place too).

The myth of HPS being hotter than LED is really just that... a myth, but with some truth to it... wattage used equals heat, so no matter what device it is, whether its a toaster, light, led, florecent... if it uses 100w, then it will add just as much heat to a room as another 100w device... so the HPS hotter myth is not really true... with the slight exception of this... that led is more efficient at producing light, therefore a 80W LED may put out the same amount of light as 100w HPS...therefore you are using 20% less power to create the same amount of light... so in this case, then the LED would run cooler, not because its a LED but because it is running 20W less power. Now the other flipside to this is that LED evacuates the heat directly to your grow environment, where HPS actually can use sealed hoods and enclosures, therefore directing heat outside of your grow area...so in this scenereo, at equal wattage, the HPS would be cooler confused yet lol...

Let me know what your plans are with/without a tent and I will try to narrow down some good options for you... but following my suggestions above should be more than sufficient with what you already have.

 

[texasdjj]

Hello Icemud - very good info again, thanks! Regarding my setup - I had looked at tents but really enjoy the freedom of a dedicated bedroom that allows me to walk around unimpeded. That said - I recognize the value of "mylar walls" for redirecting light into all the nooks and crannies.. What I may do is get a tent that is slightly bigger than the racks - my current height requirement though is taller than eight feet... Perhaps with a tent I can eliminate the racks?? I could use the racks for storage area's outside of the tent.. thoughts?
Also.. Just an FYI - evidently I posted something incorrectly about "lights" or "brands", because I received an email from one of the 420M admin notifying me that I did something inappropriately and that the "content" had been edited to be in compliance. I have read the email twice - and still don't know what the heck I did wrong.. Something about SPAM and posting links - it's probably regarding the "top 10 list"..

 

[Icemud]

Hello Icemud - very good info again, thanks! Regarding my setup - I had looked at tents but really enjoy the freedom of a dedicated bedroom that allows me to walk around unimpeded. That said - I recognize the value of "mylar walls" for redirecting light into all the nooks and crannies.. What I may do is get a tent that is slightly bigger than the racks - my current height requirement though is taller than eight feet... Perhaps with a tent I can eliminate the racks?? I could use the racks for storage area's outside of the tent.. thoughts?
Also.. Just an FYI - evidently I posted something incorrectly about "lights" or "brands", because I received an email from one of the 420M admin notifying me that I did something inappropriately and that the "content" had been edited to be in compliance. I have read the email twice - and still don't know what the heck I did wrong.. Something about SPAM and posting links - it's probably regarding the "top 10 list"..

Your welcome for the info. well I see both of your sides to tent/no tent and can't really make that decision for you but if it were me I would give up the flexibility of space for a tent... (I actually did this in my apartment as well and had to sacrifice a normal bedroom but I also now have lots of bud as a trade off

I would recommend a tent for these reasons:

Tents are good for controlling and keeping complete darkness during lights out hours... slight disturbances or flashes of light during flowering nights can cause issues like delays in flowering, irregular development or even hermies.

Tents also make it easy to control the environment where you can keep odor contained (if needed) humidity is easier to control, less pest availability to get to your plants... and nobody sees them which could result in theft (it happens more than ya may know)

Tents have reflective surfaces which allow the light to hit the plants and be reflected instead of spread in an open area and absorbed by floors.. walls furniture... etc.. .

Now with a tent you will need the air to exchange so if you go this route you will need a fan and some ducting so that you will constantly be bringing in fresh air and sucking the hot air out so that is an extra cost associated with a tent, and there are cheap solutions like DIY computer fans and such, but getting a inline fan and carbon scrubber would be my recommendation. Plants can get pretty stinky in mid and late flowering and last thing you should do is let everyone know you grow.. it makes you an easy target for theft or law... or landlords..

If you get a tent, you don't need the racks... If you wanted to use them for storage hey, why not

I also would recommend deciding on your grow space, tent/no tent etc before buying any lights... because depending on the route you go, your needs may change and you wouldn't want to buy lights that wouldn't work the best for your setup.. so I would recommend figuring out if you are going to stick with the racks, or get a tent or.. and then let me know and Ill give some recommendations.

You probably got the message from 420 mag because they generally do not allow the names of non sponsoring LED companies announced or links to other sites outside of the forum sponsors. They have had a lot of problems in the past with non sponsor led companies coming in and spamming the site and the sponsors do pay quite a bit of money to advertise here, so its only right other companies names be omitted or its kind of a slap in the face to sponsors.. (you didn't know so no biggy, the staff are pretty nice people and understanding as well, they just have to enforce the rules equally to all members, new and old.)

We try to support the sponsors as much as possible because it allows for the funding to keep 420 mag a nice friendly and quality forum.

We definitely want the sponsors happy too, as they offer promotional prizes in the monthly contests here Not sure if you are aware of them but check it out.... you could be a future winner 420 Contests

 

[Saibot]

Also.. Just an FYI - evidently I posted something incorrectly about "lights" or "brands", because I received an email from one of the 420M admin notifying me that I did something inappropriately and that the "content" had been edited to be in compliance. I have read the email twice - and still don't know what the heck I did wrong.

Ha! Welcome to the club! I'm always being censored, but usually because of my snarky humor.

Rather than buy lights have you considered building your own? Using either Cree, Vero, or Citizen COBs a very nice light setup can be had for much less than an assembled light. I'd be willing to help you design a system if you're interested in going that route.

edit: This isn't my first rodeo.

 

[jimmyclone]

Mars are crap, build your own cob led light or buy a premade one from timber. They will blow away anything prefabed out there. On another site there is a comparison of California light works newest solar flare vs less wattage of cobs, and the cobs are killing it.. The best light source available at the price today.. Even if mars is finally using a decent chip, there drivers are chinese crap.. And i bet the crees are there lowest bin..
Cheers..

 

[josh223]

Icemud is my personal guru, in my opinion with lights. He really gives the best advice 100% of the time.

Back to your original question about lighting in a 6'x6' space...I'm currently running a 5'x5' Gorilla tent with an air cooled 600 watt Ushio HPS bulb in addition to 2X Mars Hydro 192x5 Reflector Series. True watts...1400 or so. But you have to deal with that heat.

I am very happy with results I've had thus far.


There's got to be a closer/cheaper way to get you some decent lights. That freight or tariff is crazzzzzzzy.

Get a tent or build a flowering room and look into those LED's that Icemud recommended.

 

[Mars Hydro]

You guys may not satisfied with our lights,but we sold out thousands of lights at each international warehouse every month world wide,and most of our growers can get great result with our lights.And we are always keeping upgrade our products and service.If you guys have any opinions,welcome to tell us.

 

[Saibot]

Haha! Tell us how ya really feel, JJ!

 

[texasdjj]

Hello Saibot - thanks for the "sponsor awareness", makes perfect sense to me. Not sure if you were aware but I live in Indonesia so the only materials I have access to will be ordered from China or other internet...
That said I'm flying to USA next week for a month - so, sure, I am interested in learning "how to..."

Do we have the dialog "here" or is there another way to have a dialog without upsetting people..?
thoughts