Help! 6 plants with several problems!

[Lusi]

Hi,

I need some help with my outdoor plants. These are my first grow and have been a real challenge. I have 4 flowering and two younger plants over 12" that will start to flower soon. All are in my backyard and all in separate locations. The youngest plant is a feminized White Skunk, and the rest are Shiva Shanti II.

Here's the problems:

1) All 6 plants have dying white leaf tips. They are just starting to look like this in the last few days. The WSunk has dead leaf cedes also.

2) The second largest plant hidden in my dead corn (named Corny) has the leaves closest to the base of the plant turning yellow then falling off.

3) The 2nd smallest plant (named Baby Gal) Was all yellow and droopy 2 weeks ago, I flushed then fertilized her. The new growth is OK, except for the tips, but the bottom few sets of leaves are still a funny color and wilted on the edges.

4) One of the largest plants (named Rootsy) has dead pistils amongst the healthy ones

5) All of the plants have white flies and similar sized green flies with wings. They all fly off when I spray, then return. There is stippling on a few of the leaves and I don't have any spider mites. Do these white and green bugs also cause this? I see scattered individual white flea sized eggs on my plats and also my flowers and veggies. One egg per leaf. The rest of the garden is overrun with caterpillars that mature inside the leaf in a clear window, then eat everything up. So far, I've kept these off the MJ plants, but am losing control of them quickly. I see moths and whit butterflies about. Does either of these lay individual eggs? I'm trying to kill all of these before they reach my MJ plants. :-(

What the heck is going on, especially the leaf tips?

After you see this post of MJ leaves, please read the first reply. These are bugs that might be causing the MJ plant issues. These critters are all on the morning glories that I have hiding the MJ plants. I must find these and kill them, before they get on my MJ plants,,, if they already aren't tere. :-((

Here are the photos... I'll write what's wrong with each one:

** This plant, named WS, is my youngest. It has Dead leaf tips and also leaf edges. The new growth turns white, then the leaves fall off. It has white flies too.

** This young plant, named Baby Gal, has Dead leaf tips and the lower leaf edges are drooping and folded under. It has white flies too:

**This flowering plant, Corny,has Dead leaf tips and the leaves closest to the bottom are turning yellow and falling off. It has white flies too:

** This plant, Rootsy, has Dead leaf tips and dead or brown pistils amongst the healthy white ones. It has white flies too:

** This plant, Grumpy, has Dead leaf tips and a pic of the spotted leaves that many of the plants have. Just a few on each plant have this. My flowers and veggies almost have this stippling on every leaf! No aphids and no spider mites. Grumpy has white flies too:

** The last plant, Curly, is one of the healthiest. She too has dead leaf tips, a few yellow leaves near the stem, and a few white flies.

Please don't forget to read the first reply, the bugs from hell!

 

[Lusi]

Here are the bugs that might be harming my MJ!

Most of these pics are morning glories that surround my MJ. I'm trying to kill them, but they are spreading despite my sprays.

Does anyone know what they are and how to kill them? Are any of these the cause for my MJ problems? Each day I see more and more of them. What kills them? Neem, Azo, Seven, insect soap, and home made sprays are not working!

Here's the pics and details:

White flies, green mystery bugs, caterpillar, and striped bug, all on a badly damaged leaf.

White flies and damaged leaf.

Green flies or leaf hoppers? white spots and other odd things, bugs or not bugs. White and green flies are all over my MJ plants, just a few on eac leaf. There are single flea sized eggs on each leaf, 1 or 2 per leaf.????!

Stippling on MJ leaves, 1/8 of the leaves on each plant. I can't find spider mites. Do the green and white flies do this?

Melon leaf with more stippling patterns and white flies. Several of my MJ leaves have this too. It's easier to photo big leaves. :-(

The #1 pest in my garden. These things hatch into tiny green caterpillars shown in other pics.

Here's brown larvae that also live inside the leaves>??

A cocoon?! Yuck!!

Here again is my #1 garden pest. They do not die! There seem to be a fine web on the underside of this leaf. The top shows the larvae. How do I kill these? What are they? They have taken over all my garden and are starting to eat the MJ. :-(

The last photo. My poor MJ plants has stippling, dead leaf tips, dead spots, and yellow dying leaves near the stems. Which of these bugs are doing this?!

I just moved to CA and have never seen such insects like these. nothing kills them and each day the snack on new leaves. They don't fall off the plants with the hose and my sprays don't kill them, even while I take a leaf and bug and try to get it off the leaf with the hose and test sprays.

I'm ready to move somewhere else. :-(

 

[RPsmoke]

Re: Here are the bugs that might be harming my MJ!

hello Lusi! This is long, so bare with me...

I am sorry for all your troubles. Fighting bugs and pests is never fun. Hopefully we can help you figure some of this out.

Some of those "mystery" bugs you are pointing out... could they be thrips?

Some of the damage on the melon leaf looks to be some thrip damage, along with other pests.

Thrip damage:

Small green caterpillars are a very common problem in CA it seems. We have many problematic moths and such that create these monsters. The most popular one I see it the Green Garden Looper.

Spinosad seems to help somewhat. Diatomaceous earth seems to help a little.

Planting flowers, such as marigolds, calendula, sunflower, daisy, alyssum, or dill nearby can attract beneficial insects that attack and kill cabbage loopers and cabbage butterflies.

Spraying Bt (Bacillus thuringiensis) on plants can help. Bt is a naturally occurring bacterial disease that only attacks caterpillars. Many vegetable gardeners consider Bt an organic product.

Kill any and all butterflies nearby (sounds cruel, but caterpillars can be devastating, I've lost whole plants).

You could have luck with a Pyrethrum spray, HOWEVER... this late in the year means harvest must be soon (unless you are in a green house?) I generally do not spray anything on the plants this late into the season. Might be best to simply harvest what you can. Be diligent about inspecting the buds during the manicure process. Remember, many sprays are not instant... especially the more organic ones.



As for curled leaf tips:
Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems -> “Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!”, or, “My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?” Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell *exactly* what the culprit is, and unfortunately the “solution” the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis-diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I’ll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.

1. Over-fertilizing - the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. A hard, crispy feel to the leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy leaf. When you have a high concentration of salts in solution (in the root medium) compared to the salinity levels found in the plant’s tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the root gradient in order to fix the ppm imbalance. IOW, this is a natural, osmotic response that serves to equalize salinity levels on both sides of the root’s epidermal gradient. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips, which then creates another set of problems. Note - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem.

2. High Heat - the plant is losing water via it’s leaves faster than what can be replaced by the root system. The leaf responds by leaf margin cupping or rolling up or down (most times up) in order to conserve moisture. A good example is reflected by the appearance of broad-bladed turf grass on a hot summer day, high noon, with low soil moisture levels - the leaf blade will roll upward/inward with the grass taking on a dull, greyish-green appearance. Upon sunrise when moisture levels have returned to normal, the leaf blade will be flat. Lower the heat and concentrate on developing a large, robust root system by practicing sound plant culture. An efficient and effective root system will go a long way to prevent heat induced leaf dessication and leaf margin curling. One short episode of high heat is enough to permanently disable or destroy leaf tissue and cause a general decline in the leaves affected, which often occurs to leaves found at the top of the plant. The damaged leaf (usually) does not fully recover, no matter what you do. Bummer in the summer. One can only look to new growth for indications that the problem has been corrected.

3. High Light - yes, it’s true, you can give our faves too much light. Cannabis does not receive full sun from sunrise to sunset in its natural state. It is shaded or given reduced light levels because of adjacent plant material, cloudy conditions, rain, dust, twilight periods in the morning and late afternoon, and light intensity changes caused by a change in the seasons. Too much light mainly serves to bleach out and destroy chlorophyll as opposed to causing leaf cupping, but it often goes hand-in-hand with high heat for indoor growers. Again, back off on the light and concentrate on developing/maintaining an efficient and robust root system.

4. Overwatering - for those doing soil, this practice only serves to weaken the root system by depriving the roots of proper gas exchange. IOW, the roots are not getting enough oxygen which creates an anerobic condition inducing root rot and root decline with the end result showing up as leaf stress, stunted growth, and in severe cases, death. <gasp!> Overwatering creates a perfect environment for damp-off disease, at, or below the soil line. Alot of times folks think the plant is not getting enough plant food (which it can't under such adverse conditions), they add more nutes for a "curative", and just add insult to injury.

5. Underwatering - not only is the plant now stressed due to a low supply of adequate moisture, but carbohydrate production has been greatly compromised (screwed up). Step up the watering frequency, and if need be, organic growers may need to water from the bottom up until moisture levels reach a norm throughout the medium. If the pot feels light to the lift - it’s time to water. Don’t wait until the soil pulls away from the sides of the pot or leaves droop before you water. And of course, leach once in a while to get rid of excess salts.

All of the above issues relate to a plant's internal cell turgor or cell water pressure. If water pressure within the plant's stem and leaf cells are positive, the plant will look strong and stocky with flat leaves that are cool to the touch due to good transpiration from the leaf surface. By the same token, if the water pressure is not up to par, whereby water is being extracted from the plant and not replenished like it should be.... the leaves and/or stems will droop.

I believe that is a saved post from Uncle Ben (a well known grower).

Do you know your water PH? Water run off PH? Soil PH?

What nutrients are you using? How often? How often are you flushing (plain water)?

As for the pistils dieing:
Pistils are actually the whole flower. The "hairs" are called Stigmas. Just so ya know.

As the flower naturally matures, the stigmas will begin to die back and turn a deeper orange or red (usually, although color can vary). I am sure what you are seeing is the natural ripening process. Next step is to use a microscope and check trichome development. The colors will mature from a clear crystal like trichome, to a more cloudy, to finally an amber tint. Cloudy trichomes signal the peak ripeness. Different ripeness often relates to a different high. But I am a bit off track now.

Hope this helps you some. Any more questions, ask away. I'll do my best to help.

 

[Lusi]

Wow! TY for all that info!

Since I posted this thread I bought a fertilizer meter and now two soil PH meters, ust in case the first was wrong. My water meter then died, but I've been pretty good with water so far. The ol finger and what comes up with the PH reader helps.

My fertilizer meter says not enough ferts. So, I've been feeding and deeding with each water until the meter shows at the low part of enough ferts. Just in case that wasn't working, I scooped up some miracle grow seedling mix (this was for normal flowers only), watered the pot ans stick my meter in. It showed up right in the middle of the 'good' zone. My soil PH is reading 6.8, sometimes a bit lower. My PH strips for the water are still in moving boxes. The ones far a saltwater Aquarium read lower than 6.8. That's as far as the strip has. My water is hard and the sprinklers leave a white washed effect on the fence. I try to let the water sit in gallon jugs a day in the sun before using them. Now that the weather has cooled off I'm no longer fighting the heat. The plants are all in partial shade locations. Some get 3/4 day others 1/4 day direct sun. The two young plants are in cloth pots, another I just transplanted (last idea I had) to a 10 gallon ceramic pot and the last two are inside 3 gallon bags and in the ground. I can still dig them up if I have to. The bags are pretty much destroyed by me poking more holes in them.

OK, the bugs... I have my 30x magnifier now and see no bugs!? There are little flea sized white eggs scattered about randomly on all the plants. Some thing is flying about laying eggs. :-( I suspect these are those evil green caterpillars that grow up to an inch with pale green and brown stripes. I have several pictures of these, as you see on the leaves. I'll include an adult pic. I've kept those caterpillars off of my plants so far by letting them eat everything else in site. I fear those eggs will hatch and I'll be wiped out! Now that there are buds starting, I don't know how to kill the eggs! I blasted the plant with the most eggs (the one the hose doesn't reach to well to do this). The eggs didn't wash off. ?! Thrips, yes some of the leaves have this white spotting instead of yellow spots. Are they from a brown moth with a big body? What can I do? These aren't anywhere near harvest yet! There is no sign of caterpillar poo on the MJ plants. The other plants re covered in it. :-(

I do have recent pics from today. They are getting worse and showing signs of nutrient problems. All I read could be Mag, N and several others. Not all the plants are the same, despite they get the same care!

Fertilizer, I only could find Miracle grow tomato food. I went to 4 stores! I also can't find neem oil, or the powder you said targets caterpillars. There's nothing useful, even when I called out. If I need something different, I'll have to mail order it.

The dead Stigmas... TY for the correct word!... The buds were only in 2 weeks of bloom before this happened. I have a magnifiers. There are very small scattered clear trichs that don't even have a little round piece on the end. The stigma went from white to dried up and dead in 4 days! Definitely no where near finish. They just got started. :-(

I'll try and add the new pics now. My attempts to help the plants are making them worse. I spray and spray, the eggs stay. Now I have sure signs of nutrient problems, but the pics I've seen are so close to many problems! I have flushed and re-fertilized all of the plants in the photo. Only one which is fairly healthy, minus dead stigmas and dead tips) and I wasn't able to flush it.

TY for your help! If You see something I need to get, LMK. I have no choice but to mail order. If something can't wait that long, I'm open for trying anything. This is like a big snowball!

I don't think these photos are working. They are all in my gallery, recent for this week. Sorry! I'll try again tomorrow!

- 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

Dead stigmas

15 oct rootsy dead pistils! - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

young plant just blooming. dead tips and these odd leaves

sick plants nutrient problem - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

same plant leaf close up

sick plants nutrient problem - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

youngest plant, not blooming yet

sick plants nutrient problem - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

least cared for oldest plant. Is outside of the reach with lights and hose. has all the eggs!

same plant new view

Caterpillar that hatches from inside the leaves

green caterpillar - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

I can't find the adult version yet will put it here later. This one is the fellow eating my corn and maybe the same on that bores into the ears. I don't think these two are related...

green caterpillar on corn - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery
Most mature plant flowering 4 weeks

Dying leaves, pistils no bugs! - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

same plant, damage in one night. odd colored leaf

Dying leaves, pistils no bugs! - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

same plant drooping fan leaves since last night!

Dying leaves, pistils no bugs! - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

same plant another view. :-(

Dying leaves, pistils no bugs! - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

another post of mine with the dead stigma
Flowering, pistils all dying or dead: Help!

here's the bug that hatches from the leaves. There are a few more pics in my gallery. The adult one has pale green sides and strips. I'll have to look more later online!

These things are not yet eating my MJ, just a nip or two... but the white butterfly I keep seeing is surely laying those eggs. Looks like a "cabbage moth" from when I was a kid. If those eggs hatch...

green caterpillar - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

The computer is winning this battle! If you look in my gallery, you'll see many more detailed photos from this week. If there si a view you need, please let me know and I'll take a new pics!!

TY so very much!!

 

[Lusi]

Hi again RP... not sure if you'll ever get this reply... I need to copy your post into a word file so I can find it more easily. :-D This is a follow up, in case any of this will help other newbies.

My 60-100x scope and ph sticks finally came in the mail. My soil PH remains 6.8, tap water in 7, and run of seems different each time and with each plant?! I'll have to keep a log of that... My organic ferts are going back to the store. They need mixed in huge quantities or made in to huge amounts of tea that have to be used in 24 hours. My house smells like a compost pile. Blah! Time to look for nutes again!

Do ya have some favorites to recommend? I heard there were problems with Fox Farm, not sure what. Should I flush them all and start over with new nutes?

The scope is a piece of junk, not worth $17. I can get it to work well enough to see all the remaining plant buds are now pearl color with a few amber tips on 2 of the plants. I chose to harvest half of the plants last week before I went on vacation... just in case someone climbed the fence to help themselves. I didn't have the new scope yet, only the 30x... useless.

It's getting into the high 30's at night and 50s-60s day. No frost, the plants still look healthy. The rain has started and it will be nasty for the next 4 days. I was able to cover one plant and bring the rest under the overhang. They will still get hammered.

Is it worth letting them stay out there until more amber appears? Will they keep maturing in these low temps? The stuff I harvested early smells like oregano and isn't strong, but does kill pain in high amounts. I desperately need to have some buds to make me sleep... thus why the rest are still outside... I don't know what to do about this. I just clipped another bowl full of the most mature buds.

Maybe this will help the next person... The dead pistils on my plants were from nutes or bug sprays. They were killed off, completely dead and dried brown just a few weeks into bloom! Not having pistils to turn orange and help with when harvest is near has been driving me insane! However, I have to say this has not effected the trichs in any visible way. They are at 8 weeks now and just now maturing, over 6 weeks after anther forum told me to harvest!

If anyone reads this and has also fried their pistils way before harvest, don't panic and harvest early... your buds will continue without them. Not sure if they will taste like nutes or bug spray, but they will live.

 

[RPsmoke]

Lusi-Hi again RP... not sure if you'll ever get this reply... I need to copy your post into a word file so I can find it more easily. :-D This is a follow up, in case any of this will help other newbies.

Hello Lusi! I did get this reply. Better late the never though! I haven't gotten back to check on your other thread.

My 60-100x scope and ph sticks finally came in the mail. My soil PH remains 6.8, tap water in 7, and run of seems different each time and with each plant?! I'll have to keep a log of that... My organic ferts are going back to the store. They need mixed in huge quantities or made in to huge amounts of tea that have to be used in 24 hours. My house smells like a compost pile. Blah! Time to look for nutes again!

PH sounds about spot on. Run off will be different as different salts gets washed out. Keeping a nice little journal wouldn't be a bad idea. That was a hard thing for me to get used to. I now document EVERYTHING and then some. I have notes everywhere. It helps.

I have used Fox farm in the past with great results. General Hydro and their new line of General Organics are good. Some good ones out there, all depends on your needs. Some simple, some get more complex and let the grower "dial in" their feeding. I would start simple and progress and you feel comfortable.

If you do go Fox Farm, make sure to grab their entire line. You need Grow Big, Big Bloom, and Tiger Bloom. Grow big is the veg formula and Tiger Bloom is the bloom formula. The Big Bloom seems to be more of a micronutrient solution to be used throughout (veg and bloom).

Do ya have some favorites to recommend? I heard there were problems with Fox Farm, not sure what. Should I flush them all and start over with new nutes?

Got ahead of myself with recomendations. Tons more. As many good products as there are good strains. Just gotta find one that works for you.

I would finish this grow... and maybe have new nutes for the next time.

The scope is a piece of junk, not worth $17. I can get it to work well enough to see all the remaining plant buds are now pearl color with a few amber tips on 2 of the plants. I chose to harvest half of the plants last week before I went on vacation... just in case someone climbed the fence to help themselves. I didn't have the new scope yet, only the 30x... useless.

I'm sorry about the scope. They just are never easy to use. Some guys can use them GREAT, and some just can't. I found the USB cameras work great, and allow you to use a computer screen instead of the little peep hole. Much easier on the eyes and lets you see. But they are very pricey. I haven't bought one yet.

It's getting into the high 30's at night and 50s-60s day. No frost, the plants still look healthy. The rain has started and it will be nasty for the next 4 days. I was able to cover one plant and bring the rest under the overhang. They will still get hammered.

Is it worth letting them stay out there until more amber appears? Will they keep maturing in these low temps? The stuff I harvested early smells like oregano and isn't strong, but does kill pain in high amounts. I desperately need to have some buds to make me sleep... thus why the rest are still outside... I don't know what to do about this. I just clipped another bowl full of the most mature buds.

I would suggest harvesting them now, and getting what you can. The weather will only get worse.

Maybe look into converting a small closet into an indoor grow?

Maybe this will help the next person... The dead pistils on my plants were from nutes or bug sprays. They were killed off, completely dead and dried brown just a few weeks into bloom! Not having pistils to turn orange and help with when harvest is near has been driving me insane! However, I have to say this has not effected the trichs in any visible way. They are at 8 weeks now and just now maturing, over 6 weeks after anther forum told me to harvest!

If anyone reads this and has also fried their pistils way before harvest, don't panic and harvest early... your buds will continue without them. Not sure if they will taste like nutes or bug spray, but they will live.

I think it is great that you continue to offer information to anyone else reading through. So many people get what they need and leave. So, just wanted to say thanks!

Stigma color can be real tricky. I have seen some strains start with a pink-ish colored hair. Making it hard to tell when the colors changed. I have also harvested a very ripe plant (too ripe) because I was waiting for the color change... and it never happened. Even when I cut it down, it was white-ish stigmas and fresh ones still coming out.

 

[Lusi]

Hi, thanks again. ;-)

I have to agree, the PH is a pain to remember to check. I wish I could put a post-it note on each plant to write this on! Sadly, I look t my old posts and photos to keep track. At least I have the pics... Documenting will be a real pain to get myself in the habit of.

I just ordered a starter kit from techniflora. I don't get it... My not just one nute for vegging and one for flowering? It seems one would go insane trying to figure out what is needed or not. I'm trying to keep it simple. Too much makes failure more likely. I looked all over I couldn't find a start up set by Fox Farm. If I'm still at it when my sample pack runs out, I hope to know what I need by then.... hope.

Don't you need to cut off parts of the plants to stick them under the USB camera? It looks like a microscope... I'm trying a macro lens now, then blowing them up. Still in the trial run of that. Until I bought a 30x scope, I used my camera to see the leaves by blowing them up in photoshop. The new scope, I have to smash the piece of plant I want to see pretty flat in order to see it. :-(

I just caved in and bought the 600W HPS. It's in the garage now. I hope to get the plants on the 72 degree range so they make progress. I don't think it will work. My test buds act like Sativa and gave me a panic attack the other night I have 7 jars of buds with the other half on the plants still. 2 have caterpillars and one mites. Yuck. I wish there was a way not to harvest... I need some sleepy Indica buds badly. 5 outdoor plants since May.... all useless. I have 2 smaller plants a few weeks behind. These are under the 150W light. One has caterpillars, the boring kind, and the other mites. The mite one is the only plant that grew from ten seeds. So you think I should give up rather than stuff all of these in my tent, bugs too, to finish? I was wondering it a bug bomb would clean up the tent before the next plants are ready to come in. What a waste. :-(

Here's the one killing me.... why don't plants or buds in glass jars not smell? No pot smell, just mowed grass! They also taste like grass. Bleh! All harvested too early.... bit still the smell is not there.

TY again for the advice. I hope someday I am organized enough to collect all of this advice into a journal. When pigs fly? :-D

 

[Lusi]

Still, my buds have no smell. Still don't know if they are ready to harvest. No one has looked into my harvest thread. I keep answering myself. :-(

My landlord is coming over and my house is full of my outdoor plants waiting on harvest info. I need to help!!!
1st grow, ready to harvest yet?